Doc

We're seeing some heavy duty evolution in human attitudes and lifestyles. Some of it is happening so fast that it might be better termed a revolution. I don't care for a lot of it, but then my time of having a say in many of those things is coming to a close. And hunting has not been left out of that evolution (or revolution). It is all rapidly changing and shrinking at the same time. This kind of thing is not new. I remember times when just about every farm-kid ran a trapline and today trapping is just a shadow of its former self. It's actually an activity that is outright scorned by an overwhelming majority of the society. There is no reason to believe that the same social forces won't have the same effects on hunting. Eventually we have to get used to the idea that many good things pass out of favor eventually. All I can really do is to just be thankful for what I have experienced and let the future take care of itself. So when we are looking for the significant "threats" to hunting today, it is probably useful to recognize that the most formidable threat is one that we are really powerless to stop. You can't stop social evolution.

Well, now that you are a landowner, and the possibility of having to make choices that involve hydro-fracking is probably heading your way, it probably is a good time to be reading up on the pros and cons. You might want to contact these people and have them send you some of their material that supposedly backs up their suggestions that you join. That might be a good beginning source of info regarding their half of the issue. Most likely they will send info without requiring membership. There are some pretty heavy issues at work here that could impact family health and land values and the environment. And the other side of the coin is the fact that we are sitting on a sizeable volume of relatively clean burning and U.S. owned fuel. Also, there is the possibility of some value potentially coming your way that has to be factored into any decisions you will have to make on this issue. ................Have fun!

Well first of all, don't be mixing me in with those that have been trying to figure how many tags we are getting. I haven't even begun to delve into that one yet. So I am consistant in not making any assumptions on this issue. I can only go by what the current situations are and what is written in the plan. I will leave all the wishful thinking to those of you who need that sort of thing to justify your argument.

So what is this "pseudorabies" that they are talking about in the NY versions of feral hogs? I hope that doesn't cause pseudo attacks ..... lol. That's all we need is to be heading out to a stand armed just with a bow and have one of those 300-400 pound tuskers drooling and frothing and heading for us. Man, you could make a heck of a movie out of that thought.... . I noticed that they talked about "three cases of feral swine aggression toward humans in New York, two against hunters and one involving someone working with domestic pigs". Now isn't that a pleasant thought.

That diagram that they have in that article is kind of interesting, They show the gas bearing shale layer and the actual fracturing to be happening at 3000 -5000 feet down and the aquifer being only 500 to 1000 feet deep. Assuming all this is kind of accurate, there is no fracturing that should be happening at the aquifer level or any where's near it. So there may not actually be any danger from the fracking itself. Of course there still is the dangers of surface toxic spills because of that lethal soup that they seem to need to pull off this process, but that is a lot more manageable than what I had envisioned as the whole underground being shattered. Naturally all that involves the accuracy of that diagram, but I did read somewhere a pro-fracking proponent making that same argument that the fracking is no where near the aquifer. It's a pretty complex issue, and there doesn't seem to be one side that has anymore credibility than the other. That sort of situation for me generally has me erring on the side of safety. So it behooves the pro-fracking people to sell their process in a lot more convincing way than they have so far. They need to get some credibility since history has often demonstrated that any time there is a huge financial benefit to any corporation, they need to be judged guilty until proven innocent.

So don't be looking to the courts for any recourse.

Sounds like a local county level activist group. What was the gist of their letter?

You've got that right! And that's why I keep on writing. If nothing else, I get the satisfaction of letting them know that somebody out here is paying attention.....lol.

Is that right that bullet weight alone can establish a "best balance of trajectory, energy, and performance"? I would have thought that such optimum specs would be some kind of combination of bullet weight, powder/powder volumes, and even primers. Or am I mis-understanding something here.

Unfortunately, the devil is in the details, and so is my pro or con opinion on the general acceptance of any of the major bullets of their planned changes. I can't just make up assumptions and then say that everything will come out right. Naturally, I will be drafting letters of opinion to send to the DEC and legislators with any concerns that I have. However, I know from such past efforts not to expect miracles .

Unfortunately, I find myself starting to slide into that reality. I'm trying to fight it, but lets face it, I don't really have that many years of hunting left in me. So little of all this has a personal impact on what hunting days I have left. But the future is getting quite clear. I won't make any predictions as to how many generations before it all disappears or heads into insignificance. But even while staring that scenario of hunting decline right in the face, I still have this desire to see outdoor activities last well after me, and for me to be thought well of for having invested so much of my life in hunting, fishing, and trapping and all the other peripheral activities outdoors, So it does bother me to see it all heading down the drain. However, you are absolutely correct. The time will eventually come that the people of future generations are going to take on the destiny and direction of hunting. I just wish I could see some small sign that that is actually going to happen.

If all seasons go to the DMP system, they would have to change the dates to allow early season hunters (Bow) to get their DMPs in time for opening day. Why wouldnt they change the dates? And just where did you read that bit of information? I'd have to agree, they would need to make it earlier, it would only make sense. And the 2nd leftover deal should be moved up as well. Ok then, I'll ask you the same question: where did you read that bit of info? frankly, I can only base my opinions on what I see written. If it's not in current law or stated in that 5 year plan, then it doesn't exist. I'm not going to get into the game of wishful thinking or hoping that maybe for the first time the DEC might begin to engage in logical thinking.

If all seasons go to the DMP system, they would have to change the dates to allow early season hunters (Bow) to get their DMPs in time for opening day. Why wouldnt they change the dates? And just where did you read that bit of information?

Apparently it has skipped the attention of a lot of us, but the major factor in the decline of hunting is a social and cultural shift that is turning toward technological trinkets and urbanization and away from activities and interests of natural pursuits. There continues to be a change in the societal view of consumptive activities such as hunting, fishing and trapping. Much more interest is invested in the latest cool electronic gadget or game or other items that you can sit on the couch and have entertain you. It's not just a little change either, but rather an accelerating one. People are not interested in what they now view as low-brow, uncouth activities that require the exertion and discomfort of mucking around out in the wild. Changing all that involves a lot more than hunter attitudes or dragging kids out in the woods for a special weekend hunt. We are talking about a cultural change that involves a complete indoctrination of our youth. And that at a time when even the adults are opting for this techno-religion. Hiking, camping, and other things that focus on nature and the historical traditions of self reliance must again be emphasized before hunting, fishing and trapping will again gain acceptance and growth. Now that's not a nice little one-liner solution like we are so fond of, but it is the only thing that will truly turn things around. Of course all of this really amounts to just another way of saying that the popularity of hunting will continue to slide because none of it has the support of parents and requires much more parental lifestyle change than they are willing to undergo. It's too bad, but the demise of outdoor activities is just another evolutionary change. At the very least we must prepare for the face of hunting to change significantly until one day we will no longer recognize it as what we once did. The best we can do is to stall the end as much as possible, and keep trying to avoid having the activity bastardized to the point where even we chose to abandon it.

Seems logical to me. But that isn't in the 5-year plan. Maybe that's because it's too logical..... ;D

It doesn't matter. There is a certain rejection rate assumed when the lottery is set up (otherwise it wouldn't be a lottery would it?). So there are some percentage of hunters that will get rejected simply because it is a lottery system. In fact, hunting in 8N which is always "high" in terms of chances to be drawn, I have had several years when I did not get selected, and I also know others who have had the same thing happen. It was just the nature of a lottery. And then there was the traditional permit "give-away" after the lottery finally closes. And by the way, there were a lot of WMUs that had that "over-rejection" thing going. For bowhunters without the either/or tag, most of their season would be spent without the ability to take a doe even though there were really plenty of permits that the DEC wanted taken. As far as changing the closing date for the lottery, that probably won't be happening.

Well, that's partly true. Of course everyone seems to want to ignore my comment about the traditional "over-rejection" that has permits almost free for the grabbing that occurs after the lottery closes and is always after bow season has long been underway. So maybe the chance at those permits is not quite as equal.

Lol..... The archery season and all that it contains certainly does seem to be the prize that everyone all of a sudden seems to want. It has made a prime target lately.

Sorry, but that is exactly what any game of chance that involves winners and losers is.... competition. You don't have to like it but then it wasn't me that devised the system that turns DMP issuance into a game of chance where all hunters compete for for the right to hunt does.

I am speaking way beyond my actual knowledge now, but it sounds like a big difference between hydro-fracking and conventional oil well drilling involves some of the nasty concoctions that they use in the hydro-fracking process. Gas mining is no longer a case of "drill until you locate something to pump" like it used to be, or like oil drilling. It sounds like some of this soup that they are injecting into the well is a bit like playing with fire in the fact that mistakes appear to beuncompromising in terms of permanent pollution. And then there is the fact that the underground structure is not only simply having a hole poked into it, but is being smashed area-wide around the well location. I think I can well imagine how that might have a tendency to mix gas and water. Anyway, I don't think there is a valid comparison in potential damage between oil drilling (and old methods of gas drilling) and this new process. That thought may come from just plain ignorance of the details of these processes, or perhaps a real assessment of how they can impact our lives and the lives of those that come after us. Of course when we consider the dangers of off-shore oil drilling, we have recently seen the havoc that mistakes in that process can cause. But that just points up the fact that no matter how much regulation and oversight that we supply, mistakes resulting in environmental catastrophes still happen. Perhaps that just serves as another warning that we should be heeding.

Culver- I am just putting myself in the shoes of a landowner who has just been told that he and his family have been drinking a diet of carcinogens, or who has been told that his water supply is contaminated and that his land is now worthless because it's now toxic. Or maybe the guy whose glass of drinking water accidentally catches fire .... lol. Why am I looking at it from that standpoint? Because I or someone I know could be that landowner. Of course I'm concerned. And when the cash begins to over-rule the rights of a person to pure water, or the expectation that the government should be concerned about environmental experimentation, I begin to wonder if our values may not be a bit upside-down. How much cash, corporate profits and economic prosperity does access to pure water cost?

Judging from the way he is holding his right leg, and the length of his tail, and the fact that it is 65 degrees F, I would have to say that he is between 760 and 782 days old. I generally have a plus or minus 11 day margin of error on my estimates.

I'm glad you have decided to discontinue the dictionary game. I got the feeling you weren't really reading my replies anyway, so that wasn't really going anywhere. And how does your last question relate to what the bowhunting community has achieved for the sport over the past decades? I'm scratching my head looking for the relevance. Are you implying that if there are any of us that didn't have direct hands-on responsibility for the advances that have been made in bowhunting that we should therefore be deprived of them or that they are somehow invalidated? That certainly would be a strange kind of argument.

Lol ..... I almost forgot what the original topic was all about . Looking back, I find some of the results of the survey that was originally referred to, kind of appalling, but not terribly surprising given the torture that the educational system has undergone over the years. I can't think of any system that has become such fertile grounds for constant blind experimentation and churning. Whether we are talking about discipline, order or curriculum, it's great to be a bit progressive in approaches to education, but how about hanging on to a few fundamentals here and there?

You are absolutely right. I have watched a red-tailed hawk working my lower field. He is absolutely flawless. He never misses. The rabbits are lured out in the field at dusk to eat the grass and Mr. Hawk sits in the top of a big old cherry tree where he can see the whole field. When the rabbit is far enough out into the field, he comes down and like I said, he just never misses. I've watched hawks and owls in the woods looking for squirrels, but they aren't quite as good at that. Those squirrels are quick and tricky. They also have their audible warnings that put the whole bunch of them on alert. Over the decades, I have watched the hawk and owl population explode everywhere. Quite possibly they are simply out-of-control and having the predictable effect on prey species. However, don't be expecting any 5-year plans that will promote hunting these species...... That ain't going to happen.