Mr VJP

Exactly the point I was making. Let's allow more fundamental change without dissent. It's obviously good for America.

Belo, for those who have little foresight and can't extrapolate where all of this is going, it probably seems far fetched. But if you want to see a parallel example that clearly makes my point, study the history of gun control since 1968. You take one feather at a time and the bird doesn't notice until the day it finds in cannot fly. I may not be around when it finally happens, and that may be because it won't happen until guys like me are gone, but you'll remember being warned this day when it does.

Let's get one thing straight. All new hunters are welcome. But if a newbie expects to come into the fold and start telling others how things have to change, how things we have been doing for years are wrong, how your ammo is wrong and your rifle makes you look like a terrorist, how handguns are wrong, how the NRA is bad and how you must conform, concede, co-operate and compromise because they demand it and are looking to enforce it, they are not going to be welcome anymore. I have seen too much concession over the decades to let it happen anymore. Enough is enough. If you have problems with the way hunting happens today, don't hunt, or do your thing your way without telling others how to do it. If you expect to join a large fraternity of people that have been doing things their way for decades, don't expect to enter, demand fundamental change and take over because you think they're wrong. New hunters can voice their opinions all they like, but they better not puss out and cry like a child about being bullied when they bring justifiable wrath on themselves with their "I'm right and you're not" attitude. You will not get respect because you demand it. You need to earn it. That's hard to do if you're not savvy. It's easier to earn contempt, which can never be returned. Case in point: Years ago in this land, there was another large fraternity of people who were willing to compromise, concede and trust the newbies and the changes they wanted imposed by the government. Everything they did was unacceptable too. Today they have nothing and regret not fighting from the beginning. They referred to themselves as the Indigenous People of Turtle Island. Today we call them Native Americans.

Mass Media has mangled many folks minds. If you watch it and get infected, you're soon brain dead.

Mike, why don't we just cut to the chase? All of this is leading to one conclusion. Studies will eventually be presented that conclude all hunting should be stopped and all ammo banned. Why waste time with the minor details? Let's just accept it now and do it. Probably because the government doesn't want to be seen as the culprit that does it. Instead, it will infringe and regulate it to the point nobody will have any interest in doing it anymore and that will be the end of it.

Pawn Wildcat? The first step towards fixing a problem, is admitting you have one. Congratulations!

The Gospel according to Liberals. It had nothing to do with being taxed, but having no representation. We have the same problem again today. How did that happen?

Wildcat, I never stated I'm Tea Party and I don't have cable or even own a TV. I certainly can afford it, but see no value in it. That shows how assumptive and judgmental you are. It also shows how easily you can be used as a tool for leftist, progressives and propagandists. You seem to not question anything they feed you as long as it supports your desire to "fix" the country in your own image. Your obviously a leftist, based on your recent posts. NY state elected officials and politics reflect your views too. I'm sure you support them. The Bundy issue has a history going back decades, a history one must read in order to speak intelligently on the current event. You apparently have not bothered to educate yourself on the history. You are however, giving me a real education about your mindset. It's not surprising.

People that are control freaks do that. They like the world to reflect what they believe it should. Pompous.

I see. The government is your friend. Obey.

States that have mandatory blaze orange laws have gone further now. Turkey hunters must put an orange band around the tree they are sitting against and luminosity meters are being used to test the brightness of your orange to make sure it's as effective as it should be. Old faded out orange, like you Dad's lucky vest, can now get you a $500 fine. Go ahead, support a mandatory law. Get back to me when it gets worse and you realize it was a dumb choice.

I love threads like this. A boat load of evidence for anti hunting groups to use for their attacks against all hunters. Why don't you guys confront the offenders directly if you have seen them do it? Posting this crap on this site isn't going to do anything but supply more evidence to the anti's that all hunters are scumbags. In truth, some are, but there are many more that put themselves on a pedestal and constantly speak of the bad ones in an attempt to convince themselves they are superior. In the mean time the mud they sling at others is getting all over their own blaze orange coveralls.

Want to know why the SAFE Act was passed and Cuomo got re-elected in NY? Because many NY gun owners hate the NRA more than Cuomo. They don't own any black rifles, don't think anyone should have one and do not care about those that do. Worse than that, the have no idea how that law is going to affect them in the future. These same people have no idea what the NRA does and get all of their info about it from left wing propagandists that attack it. If you do not think the push for universal background checks isn't a trojan horse designed to create a registration data base of all gun owners, and a way to also prevent many more legal gun owners from having guns, without doing anything to stop criminals from getting guns, you obviously never paid any attention to the warnings and proof presented to you by the NRA when you were a member, which was probably decades ago by now. I have no use for gun owners who sit back and attack those who try to protect gun rights because they so sanctimoniously think they know what's best for all other gun owners. They are helping the gun grabbers by agreeing with any part of their agenda without even doing any research to determine if they are being conned. The colonists had Tories, we have these guys. It just sickens me.

Are any of the 5 remaining living in the wild, or are they all in zoos?

By law in AK, all non-resident bear hunters must be guided. All guides carry rifles, for clients who are bow or gun hunters. If you want to hunt brown bear in AK, you will have a guide with a .375 or larger rifle with you, no matter if you want him there or not.

I'm still upset we couldn't save the dinosaurs.

Are you referring to the idiots on the government's side?

You are not a member of the NRA, you're Anti-NRA, besides being anti-lead ammo, anti-hunting contest, anti-black rifle and large magazine capacity (if you agree with the links you supplied), apparently anti-freedom of choice and anti-2nd Amendment as well if you agree with the links you posted. There seems to be a huge pro-control motive in your being though. There is no litmus test to be on here at all. It is a hunting forum open to all, even trolls who just stir the pot with their posts. You don't have to support the NRA. But there is a big difference between non-support and being a propagandist trying to turn hunters against the NRA and undermine the organization. After careful inspection of your past posts, and viewing the links you supplied above, I think it's quite clear you are an elitist in every area of hunting and gun ownership. You have strong opinions on who is a "respectable" hunter and now challenge "respectability" of certain firearms enthusiasts. I can only assume you are also self loathing, as you also confessed to being anti-zealot. I can tolerate non-NRA members, but an anti-NRA bias is just contemptible. To quote Vinny Gambini: "I'm done with this guy!"

IMHO, this thread no longer serves any purpose on the subjects discussed. I bow out.

Steve, have you ever been to Sussex County NJ, just south of Port Jervis, NY and Milford, PA? I don't know what your idea of a hunting "mecca" is, but there are a whole lot of bear hunters, from a whole lot of places around the country, that are suddenly taking a very big interest in those very large black bears in NJ. The political fight was history in 2010 and the hunters won. Since then, bear hunting has proven to be very good for NJ, proving the hunters were right all along. BTW, Barnegat Bay in NJ is, and has always been, a waterfowl hunter's mecca as well. You should learn more about the state prior to making such judgments. Regarding bear hunting, I'm sure they do intend to "keep it".

I would have to disagree with that. Are you an NRA member? Where do you get your info about the NRA from?

It's easy for someone to say NJ isn't a good bear state, if they have never hunted northern NJ, and probably never even been there. The NW corner of NJ is more like the Pocono's of PA than the rest of the state of NJ. Big woods, forests, mountains, Wildlife Management Areas and The Delaware Water Gap National Rec Area are the norm there. It's perfect habitat for bears and few of them live where they eat at garbage dumps because NJ has hardly any open dumps anymore and all residents in the bear areas have to use bear proof trash cans now. These bears get big because they have been allowed to live a long time in NJ. The state only recently allowed bear hunting and relatively few NJ hunters seek them out, preferring to hunt for deer during the deer/bear season. they only issue 2000 to 3000 permits for each bear zone and less than 10% are filled. Many NJ bears have also learned to live in the areas where hunting is not allowed by local ordinance. They may live there for decades before they get pushed out for some reason and wander into an area that is hunted.

Does Ca's lead ammo ban lead to more restrictions on hunting in the future? CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLY BILL 711 By July 1, 2019, AB 711 requires the use of nonlead ammunition for the taking of all wildlife in California, including game mammals, game birds,nongame birds, and nongame mammals, with any firearm. I think it does. Also: THE CALIFORNIA ECONOMYWith the expected loss of more than 50,000 hunters in the state, California’s economy will take a severe hit. Loss will include: 1,868 jobs $68.7 million in salaries and wages $13.9 million in state and local tax revenue $5.8 million of federal tax revenues WILDLIFE CONSERVATION FUNDSHunters are the primary source of conservation funding in the state. A dramatic decline in hunters ultimately means fewer dollars for wildlife conservation. The expected reduction in hunter participation and their spending will result in a direct loss of at least $2.7 million in revenue from reduced license sales and a $695,000 reduction in its allocation of excise tax revenues from the federal Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund. These funds serve all wildlife, not just game species.

November 13, 2014, during the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission meeting, the Commission members voted against a proposal that would have banned the use of lead ammunition for sporting purposes. This proposal was offered due to an emotional reaction, not one based on sound science and biological data. Not everyone is on board with the lead ban agenda, nor the contest ban for that matter.