Mr VJP

Here's where I am on this topic at this point in this thread: B.O. Should not be mandated by law, but it's foolish not to wear it. B.O. is needed because some hunters are fools that will shoot at anything not having B.O. The penalties for stupidly shooting someone while hunting are not severe enough. The person shot is NEVER the guilty party. B.O. necessity while hunting, is one of the biggest reasons non-hunters think hunters are idiots. Hunters that chastise other hunters for not wearing B.O. have no more right to do so then motorcycle riders have to chastise other riders who don't wear a helmet. If we allow legislators to pass laws to protect us from this type of stuff, pretty soon we will need to have life insurance to hunt and we will be wearing helmets in our cars. The last thing I ever want to hear someone say is, "There ought to be a law!".

No, the helmet and the seat belt protect you. A law making you wear them is a threat to you. If we need laws to get people to have common sense, we're better off letting Darwinism take care of the problems. There is no life guard in the gene pool!

Stubby, your reading comprehension needs work, as do the regs and normal folks ability to understand them. "You may not possess a centerfire rifle afield, during the day or night, to hunt wildlife, including furbearers in any county or portion of a county where deer hunting with rifles is prohibited during the regular deer seasons." That means in any area where rifles are allowed for deer,you may have one loaded at any hour if hunting coyote. Oh Heck. Posted this prior to getting to read all of the following posts to this point. But you get the point.

Look guys, this thread is about LAWS! Do we need laws to make us wear BO, or use seat belts, or wear a motorcycle helmet, or stop smoking, or stop drinking (they actually tried that), or stop drugs, or anything else we know is bad for us? Do we want a big brother nanny state that watches over us and protects us from OURSELVES with threats of fines and jail? If the activity has no ability to harm anyone other than one's self, do we want the government telling us we can't do it? I think not. You may think so, but if you do, you better think a lot more. You are inviting disaster on all of your rights and freedoms.

You missed my point about stocking birds that are captured from wild pheasant areas, just like the stocked turkeys. Captured and released, not farmed raised.

I don't find that in writing anywhere in the game laws. People can hunt coyote 24 hours a day.

It hasn't worked because nothing has been done to improve habitat and reduce predator numbers. NY has perfect turkey habitat and few turkey predators. That is why stocking turkeys works in NY and even Northern NJ. There are plenty of places in NY where the habitat will support pheasant year round, but there are a lot of fox around. Banning leg hold traps put a lot of trappers out of the field and predator numbers are harder to control now. There are many places in PA & NJ where they have wild pheasant populations. I can be done successfully but it requires knowledge of what needs to be done.

The suburbs have become deer sanctuaries.

An unloaded weapon shows you are not hunting, a loaded one leaves you open to suspicion.

As the leader, you should put the standers in place according to the drive plan and then take a stand. Nobody leaves a stand until you come for them or blow a loud whistle. Everyone should wear as much blaze orange as they can wear so everyone can see everyone else.

WRONG!! It is NOT the government's job or responsibility to protect any INDIVIDUAL from ANYTHING! Government's sole purpose is to provide for the basic needs of the citizens and support a military to protect ALL of it's citizens from attack. It can only do what the citizens decide to let it do! Notice the first line has the word INDIVIDUAL capitalized. The second line has ALL capitalized. There is no duty to protect any one person. There is a duty for government to protect the nation from attack by an enemy. That's one of the necessary evils of needing a government. Conversely, the government has no authority to make us protect ourselves from any and all dangers as it sees fit. This has been accepted by the masses after years of propaganda and now we see all kinds of laws restricting our freedom. And it's going to get much worse. Americans really are an idiot electorate. BTW, I'll bet the incidents of "mistaken for game" would drop to zero if the shooter was given the death penalty, F.O. or not!

Possum and beaver are pretty good if you know how to cook it, but the rest can be used for dog food. Hate to ever see that as law though.

Yeah but in these modern times, they may be on the chest of what used to be a man! Modern technology is real scary. LOL! BTW, I finished and built all 3 of those myself. Not the barrels or locks though. That's also part of the tradition.

Pheasant can easily survive rough winters, as they do in the wild in places like No Dakota. They need good habitat and fewer predators to do so, however. Improving habitat and controlling predators is costly and long term, and pheasant would need to be stocked from wild populations in order to teach their young how to survive too. Long term reward isn't popular anymore, as most people are seeking instant gratification.

It's average. I'd try to do better, especially since the military is getting picky these days.

This is not true. Many deer learn how drives work too. They will lay low, let drivers pass and then circle back away from the shooters. They also learn how to tell when a drive is forming by learning what it means when a lot of cars start showing up with a lot of men getting out of them. Often club members will hunt alone in the evening, on land that was just driven that morning, and still take very nice deer. Drives are not 100% effective at taking every deer in the woods. The ones they miss are often the biggest and smartest deer around.

Each club has it's own method, but most divide all the meat in equal portions to all who want some. All have to work on gutting and butchering the deer as well. Everyone pulls their weight or is sent away from the club. A lot of drive clubs have members who don't want the meat. Many are farmers who just want to control the herd that decimates their crops.

"They get bad raps from those that think you put guys at one end of the woods and push to guys standing at the other end with everyone firing every which away ! " Sadly, there are a lot of guys out there every year who do just that, because they have no idea how a real deer drive is done.

I'm OK with all of it, but I don't believe any of it is the same as hunting really wild animals or birds. I believe in freedom and capitalism, so if there is a market for it, go for it. I do worry that stocking any creature for hunting is going to become a target for the anti's one day and it will be hard to defend in the eyes of non-hunters. Having seen stocked pheasant being hunted by large crowds, it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the way we stock turkey is perfect. They are captured where they are plenty, released where they are few, reproduce, thrive and are truly wild when hunted. I wish all stocking was done that way.

It takes a good sized group, organization, some leadership, cooperation and a lot of experience by all, to do it right. Most deer drive groups have been doing it together for many years. They know the lands they drive better than their own back yards. There is a rigid pecking order and appointed leadership. They have strict rules and procedures. You become part of a team that is not just hunting, they're a hunting production. Every hunter should experience it once in their lifetime, but you have to be invited to get in on a good drive club.

WRONG!! It is NOT the government's job or responsibility to protect any INDIVIDUAL from ANYTHING! Government's sole purpose is to provide for the basic needs of the citizens and support a military to protect ALL of it's citizens from attack. It can only do what the citizens decide to let it do! The above type of big government thinking is what has allowed the government to pass all sorts of laws that infringe on personal liberty and individual freedom. Helmet laws, seat belt laws, gun laws and blaze orange laws remove freedom of choice by force and should NEVER be allowed. In a free society, it is up to each and every individual to decide what is best for them. I'm not saying they aren't good choices, but the government has no business or Constitutional authority, to impose it's will on us by force. I do not want anyone "protecting" me against my will. I believe in freedom of choice, self awareness, self sufficiency and personal responsibility. The fact that most people don't believe in those things and follow the masses like sheep, is the biggest problem this country has. We used to be a free country. We haven't been for a long time now.

If the penalty for "accidentally" shooting someone were harsh enough. maybe we'd see fewer "accidents".

Regarding ethics, certain things require laws in order to promote an ordered society. As long as the laws instituted by the government reflect the will of the people, I'm not against them. I don't trust government to always do what is the will of the people. I think the last six years are proof that it cannot be trusted. The problem is, the people are allowing it to get away with it.

Do you?

The biggest problem I have with blaze orange, is the statement it makes to the general public. That being, "Hunters are so stupid in general, they have to wear blaze orange to keep from shooting one another". The man who doesn't wear it isn't stupid. The man who shoots at a man not wearing it is stupid. Remember, only hunters would be required to wear it. Anyone else in the woods would be exempt. Do we not care if stupid hunters shoot them?