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Yet I was told, look at that, I was told, as long as it is a legal implement for the species being hunted OK to carry both.

You were told it had to be legal for BOTH species!!! Therefore both weapons need to be valid for BOTH species! That is what it says!

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Actually I believe there is a law prohibiting having lead while duck or goose hunting.

There is, because it's not a legal implement to take migratory birds with. Same as the crossbow right now for deer, and you're in possession of it.

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There was absolutely no emotion in what I just wrote...AND it has yet to be established I accidentally did ANYTHING illegal ...Now had I gone out and shot a deer with a cross bow...most certainly... EVEN if I had thought about shooting a deer with the crossbow NO definitely not...for there was no dead deer...
This is no different than carrying a shotgun and a compound to turkey hunt at the same time...I could legally shoot a deer with that compound  I could not with the shot gun , If I thought about it it's still not illegal until there is a dead deer.

If the officer involved has probable cause to believe you were deer hunting while in possession of a shotgun then yes it would be illegal, dead deer or not.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about, you've gotten several answers and you're dismissing them all. Someone who is so over the top ethical would now admit that it seems probable I was doing something illegal unintentionally. But you can't do that, can you?

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You know what I find a bit funny. It seems like the guys that are really pushing hard on this thread to consider the crossbow as a firearm to satisfy the way the current regs are written are pretty much the against full inclusion as well. 

I said earlier I don't care either way how this pans out as I have no stake in the game. I'm telling you it's ILLEGAL. Where did anyone say the crossbow is a firearm? I said exactly the opposite. You're trying to derail the subject at hand because you were wrong.

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It is illegal to have a slug on you while Turkey or small game hunting. There are shot size rules for this reason.
They are not allowed to be carried at the same time, you can bow hunt deer or gun hunt turkey but you cannot have a gun on you while bow hunting.

Same thing with waterfowl, I can walk into a swamp to shoot ducks with my steel shot and my shotgun, I can have a box of lead shot in my pack for squirrels/partridge for on the walk out of the swamp. Am I legal? No, because I was actively hunting ducks while in possession of an illegal implement for taking ducks, whether I shot a single lead load or not. Is there a law that states this exact scenario? No, why? Because it's covered in other regulations and it's your job to make sure you are legal.

It's really mind boggling to me how some still cannot see the logic here.

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BTW I don't know why it took me so long to point this out again ...but let me address this directly and in detail:
I can hunt turkey with a compound bow and I can hunt deer with a compoud bow...you can not question that. I can NOT hunt deer with my 20ga modified choked shot gun  
I can hunt turkey with my 20 ga modified choke shot gun during fall season that overlaps bow season.
 So I am allowed to carry BOTH weapns into the field...Wonder why I said specifically modified choke? Because as easilly as I could kill a deer with a cross bow..I could slip in a slug and kill a deer...IF I were going to do some thing illegal ...Yet they are allowed to be carried at the same time..

Here's where your disconnect is, you're assuming if you agreed that what you were doing is ILLEGAL then you would also be labeled with poacher or something equivalent. That is not the case. I don't think you were attempting to cheat the law or poach anything. I'm simply telling you that you were doing something illegal unknowingly. You're letting your emotions and the interpretation you think it should be get in the way of what is actually the case and you're fighting it for no reason. You did something illegal on accident, we all learn from it and move on. Simple as that.

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The DEC is having a time figuring out where to find written legalities about it...So no matter what the out come This has shown that written rules actually do count and "because so and so says" ,a least shouldn't.  They need to get their act together and start writing clear and concise regulations. Now because I do read a lot I can tell you that even though some other states have lengthy rule books they are rather detailed in what they do and don't expect and it's out there for the hunters to read...DEC having to search for their own regulations and expecting the general hunting population to stay legal ..come on!  DEC official saying not all regulations are inthe regulation book? I'm sorry this happens to be an important one...lol

So, even after approximately 4-5 DEC officials have all given the same answer, and we pretty much all agree now on this thread that it would be illegal in your situation, Grow still cannot admit maybe she was in the wrong.
The DEC does not have to have one law that states: You can't carry your crossbow afield while deer hunting before the crossbow deer season is open. This could easily be gathered through regulations that currently exist. (You cannot be in possession of a weapon while actively pursuing a game animal that said game animal cannot legally be taken with.) You show me laws that so blatantly point out every instance they could be distorted by people's own interpretation. They handed you your answer in the text you posted yet you refuse to acknowledge it because it's not what you want to hear. Active DEC and LEO have handed you their answers, you refuse to acknowledge any validity to anyone but yourself.



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OK So didn't quit pick up on that..lets try again 

yes as long as the weapon is legal for both species." Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all the regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

Yes it was the question and it was a 30 min or so conversation, probably longer where I told them the EXACT reason I was asking that per the book and lack of anything contrary I had carried both..I stated that I am very proficient with the compound but a pie plate target on a deer is very very different than a base ball sized target on a turkey at 30 yards. I have both licenses both seasons are open both implements are legal but it was questioned and I did extensive searches and there is absolutely nothing stating in writing that it is not legal.
Grow, what you're failing to see is they said you can take two different implements into the woods as long as both implements are legal to take both species with. Now let's look at this... You can take a deer and a turkey with your compound LEGALLY, you can take a turkey with your Crossbow legally but not a deer, therefore one of the weapons you are in possession of is not legal for both deer and turkey therefore making it illegal to have in your situation.

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Come on man, I was just saying that what you said is not accurate, and it wasnt. Also, I can hunt turkeys with a crossbow from a treestand if I want to. Nothing illegal about it.
I will say that after reading what grow originally said in the other thread, what she was asking about would be illegal.

I'm in aggreance. But what grow was doing is illegal. There seems to be shady areas to this but not in her specific case.

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"yes as long as the weapon is legal for BOTH species" which it's not. You can get the answer you want if you're wording it oddly enough as to not give you're full intent.

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Crossbow season starts at a different time than firearms, setback distances are different, etc etc etc. The are not essentially treated as a firearm, and the seasons are different.

Obviously, again, they are not firearms, they use some of the same regulations for crossbow as muzzleloader, longer setback than standard archery equipment, the need for a muzzle loading tag to use a crossbow, crossbows are illegal to accompany you in the "deer" stand until crossbow deer opens (obviously the same as firearms/muzzleloader).

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Thats not correct either

Then enlighten us.

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Here is the problem with that though. By their legal definition of what a Muzzleloader is does not encompass a crossbow. Having to purchase the license does not change the legal definition of the weapon. Just as they did for their revised setback requirements. firearm 500 crossbow 250 and bow 150. the Muzzleloader would be 500. Because by the legal definition it IS a firearm. 
In typical fashion they botched it all up. 

It does not say "a crossbow is a firearm" it says it essentially treats them as a firearm, IE: same type rules/seasons apply.

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And I emailed DEC days ago regarding " additional tag " for transportation of deer shot by daughter if she's already gone home. No answer. Apparently they're all too busy stocking more mountain lions and ticketing folks carrying xbows and bows at the same time to answer me 

Why don't you call?

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It does. I did not go looking for the other thread until almost through this. But. My point was, absent a dead deer or an officer witnessing a shot at a deer, someone please tell me the section of environment law that was broken. Before anymore folks chime in about is being in ML season so it is a firearm. Look at the definitions of a firearm for environment law and tell me if you honestly think it matches. I am not asking a lot. Just a section for the violation

So essentially you're saying your fine as long as they can't prove anything? So try to hide your true intentions and keep hunting? Is that what you're implying? You can try to weasel your way around any law/loophole you want, that's still not what we're talking about. If an officer catches you in your scenario then it's up to his or her discretion as to where it goes from there.
The scenario is about is it legal to do it. In this situation, the hunter was in fact hunting deer while in possession of a Crossbow for turkeys by their own admission. So we're not concerned with how can they prove it, it was admitted that's what was happening....

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To me the email establishes the intent to deer hunt. I see that. I'd like to see an email sent asking if you can carry a bow and a crossbow to hunt turkeys or small game. I'd be curious that response. I'll send it tomorrow.

Do you even understand the issue we're referencing? The issue was, Grow was deer hunting (with her compound) while in possession of a crossbow for turkey hunting. That is exactly what the email addresses. Does it not?

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Simple question to those who think they’re being cute.

Would you be ok carrying a shotgun and a bow in the fall? If not... how is it any different?


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This is exactly what I've been saying and they keep skating around it. They keep acting like they can't fathom a way it wouldn't be legal...

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It really doesn't impact me one way or another. Not something I would do if it was in black and white that I could.  I am really more interested in what they are suing to base their answers on. I would love to see what section they are citing. The link I posted is FULL text ENV law. It is good to have for reference. 
 
Chris, would you be willing to share exactly how the question was posed? I can see an answer like they did if the question was could you hunt deer with your compound while turkey hunting with your corssbow.  was that comment in quotes exactly how you posed it?
 

Here was my exact email.

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In all seriousness though I think they would be hard pressed with the way the current regulations are written. I doubt they will rewrite anything though becasue of the full inclusion that will take this issue away. 

I'm not disagreeing with you on this, for the third time. A question came up, I got 2 answers from 2 officers that both ended the same way. It's not the answer you want to hear, honestly I don't care if it's legal or not as I'll never have a desire to do it. You might fight it in court and win? You might not? That's up to you if you want to go through that. I'm just telling you that more likely than not you WILL be getting a ticket. As someone stated above, EnCon laws are very thorough and long winded, a tiny fraction of them are published in the regulations guide, that doesn't mean that's all of them.


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I'm all about following the laws and I know that most the Encon are good folks that try. But they are not infallible. 

Apparently you are though.

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Must be part of the snowflake crowd that can't bare to have a challenging conversation? I'll be sure to copy you in when we discuss unicorns and rainbows. 

I'm talking? Seems you're just heading for name calling and childish behavior rather than the topic at hand so I'd assume you're done??

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And I can carry a shotgun loaded with slugs in the morning to shoot coyotes    Heck I can even do it tonight right?   
Pretty sure nowhere is written I can't carry 2 muzzleloaders during ML season either.

Yes you can, as far as I know, try it while also carrying a bow though and convince the officer you weren't also deer hunting. I have no idea on the 2 muzzleloader topic, you can call and ask if you are interested...

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Thanks again Chris I appreciate being informed and if I have any further questions I'll debate them with the authorities rather than members on a hunting website who are not incharge of enforcement (or their own emotions fur that matter).

No problem, the whole idea here was to learn something or look further into a question. Not debate on why I should be able to keep doing what I've been doing. Law enforcement officers are people too, they aren't always correct, but I'd be willing to bet on average they know more 90% of the time than anyone on this site about wildlife laws and regulations. That's their job.

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They aren't idiots, they also don't have ESP. I know guys that hunt with a bow and a shotgun for turkeys in the spring. carry both to a blind. so what magical action of having any of the three listed would make you a deer hunter vs a turkey hunter?

If you really wanted to follow this twisted road of logic, can I walk around the woods all fall in camo with a bow or rifle in my hand without a hunting license? Do you think you could convince the officer that you aren't "actively pursuing" anything? I doubt it. Again, there is officer discretion here and whether he buys your story is up to him or her. I'm not disagreeing with you that the law should be better stated and visible, I'm only telling you you're chances of getting pinched for this, law or not, are extremely high.

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so if you don't have a deer tag but do have a turkey tag and are out with a bow during turkey, you must be a poacher trying to take deer?

Who accused anyone of being a poacher? I'm telling you what 2 officers now have told me. I never said you were a poacher if you do have both with you, I said both officers I've talked to have said it's not legal. Stop trying to kill the messenger.

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