wolc123

That might be an indication that if most of the PA archery hunters have not made the change yet like Reeltime says, it will not be too long before crossbows are in the majority. But then again, it could also mean that the crossbows are not selling well, but the compounds are flying off the shelves. Irregardless, onward towards page 18 and 3:1 in favor of full inclusion.

Do you support full inclusion ? It looks like that side picked up another vote since your last post. Thank you if that was yours. If we can get another page or two of this "popcorn diareha" it may open up to 3:1 in favor of full inclusion. As far as the "most switching to crossbows", I am not sure about PA, and may have been wrong in my assumption. I submit to your greater knowledge there as an ex-resident. Someone posted the Ohio stats a few pages back on this thread when the poll was running a little closer to 2:1 in favor of full inclusion. Thanks in advance for your reply which will bring the truth of the wide margin of support for full inclusion back up to the top for all to see.

"Next time use your finger on your trigger instead of your cellphone after you knock a deer down with your first shot."

Records from Ohio and PA have shown that most have indeed switched to the crossbow, because it is marginally more efficient and effective overall. There are lots of situations where the compound bow comes out on top however. That is why, even after 40 years, there is still significant usage of them in Ohio. Stalking thru a corn field would be easier with a compound for example, or almost any still-hunting thru and around cover. Even hunting from a tree-stand, around branches where there is not a rest, seems easier with a compound. That takes away any valid reason to let the compound in before the crossbow. The valid reason for letting the traditional equipment (longbows & recurves) in earlier is that there is few or any situations where they are more efficient or effective, but many folks (natural born fighters) who enjoy the challenge. Those of us who are natural born killers would never have a use for such things, because we always seek to minimize challenge that impedes a kill. New fighters are born every day though, so there will always be folks wanting to use traditional equipment. I feel that those willing to put in the added time and effort to become skilled with a traditional bow deserve an earlier shot at the deer. That certainly does not apply to the compound bow however. I don't mind the current mechanical restrictions on crossbows in NY. I have done ok with an entry-level model. It did not cost much but has put all three bucks that I shot at with it down inside of 40 yards, after they took the bolt. I would be ok with airbows in gun season but not in archery.

It looks like he is starting to loose some fur, another sure sign of spring. It is about time.

The most effective thing would be an underground fence and a dog inside with a shock-collar. Some of the farmers around me use propane powered devices that sound like gun shots with some limited success.

In the southern zone, I would settle for a compromise that catetegorizes compound vertical bows and crossbows the same (high-tech), with the season for them starting October 15 and running until opening of gun season. October 1 thru October 14 would be "traditional" (or low-tech), when only longbows and recurves would be allowed, for archers over 16 but under 50 years old. I would like to see the compounds and crossbows be legal during that first two weeks for hunters under 16 or over 50 years old, or for others with some physical disability. In the Northern zone, I would like to see those dates shifted forward 1 month with the same arrangement (low-tech starts September 1). That is a compromise that I could definitely live with. Such an arrangement would result in vastly increased participation in "traditional" low-tech archery, while also not impeding the access of beginners and older hunters the access to more efficient weapons (compounds and crossbows), which would offer them a greater chance for "fresh" or "continuing" success. I really do appreciate the selflessness of some of the traditional archers who have welcomed "full-inclusion" of the crossbow for all, with no strings attached. I have very little appreciation for the compound-only crowd who selfishly fight to keep the crossbow out of their "private time".

No muscles are needed to hold a crossbow at full draw, nor are any required to hold it up, if you use a rest. An accurate shot is insured by placing the crosshairs on the correct hair when you pull the trigger (aim small miss small).

I always follow clover with corn, because it uses the nitrogen that has been stored up in the soil by the clover to make a decent. Purple top turnips would also utilize that nitrogen and would be be my second choice. The turnips would be my first choice, if you have a lot of coons, which would destroy a corn plot of that size by the end of September.

I think the effectiveness of a forum like this gets magnified because people are getting lazier every day. If they can look something up quick on their smart phone it beats the heck out of knocking on doors or making phone calls. I would not be so quick to discount it's effectiveness. Hopefully we will see how it works by October 1 2019. I also agree that the early season is not all it's cracked up to be, however I am quite certain that I could finally fill an antlerless tag or two (hopefully including a prized button buck) with my crossbow if I could get out there on October 1 with it. Killing the horned ones has not been a problem for me (the rut works wonders there).

Does that mean the full-inclusion bill that was in the budget has passed ?

I think it might. It is very important that the truth gets out to both the DEC and the NY politicians, that the overwhelming majority of NY hunters support full inclusion. This forum gives them a good "fair-and-balanced" look at the current status of the debate. You know it is now pretty well balanced because one of the moderators supports full inclusion while the other does not. I think they both may have been opposed during the only previous poll, over a year ago, and that just might be why it disappeared and no one can produce any record of it now. So much for "conspiracy theories", at least this one is hanging on and showing well above 2:1 in favor now. The other one got snuffed out right about the time it reached 2:1. Keep up the good work and thanks for making this excellent poll. p.s: Whats up Doc ?

I had seen a couple about a month earlier, on other side of the barn, when we had some warmer weather. They were quick and I was unarmed. This was the only one that I have ever seen out when the temperature was below freezing. I would have liked to have used my crossbow, but that was not handy, and I had removed the battery from the red/green dot sight for storage. I traded away my old woodchuck gun last summer (22/250). With that, I always aimed for center of mass and it rarely left even a mark on the outside of the chucks at short range. I suppose that it turned their insides to jello because they never even twitched after taking the hits. This one did not twitch either, with the .22 LR Remington Yellow Jacket HP centered on the side of the head.

My own largest-antlered buck had a fresher injury, similar to those. Someone had shot a hoof off, a day or two before, and it was hanging by a thin strip of hide. My own first shot struck high on the opposite diagonal front leg, breaking the bone and taking it completely out of commission. He made it into the brush before I could get another 16 gauge slug into him. These days he might have got away, but I was a little bit faster 30 years ago. The two bum legs really slowed him down. I will never forget the sight of those wide, light-colored antlers thrashing up and down thru the low brush. Loosing one leg barely slows them down, but loosing one and a quarter makes them catchable. Based on this experience, my guess is that the OP buck's hoofs were severed from an almost-perfectly broadside shotgun slug or large caliber rifle bullet (a good bone-busting caliber). I am pretty sure that the buck I described would have have done ok on his back stump, had I not intervened before he learned how to use it properly. One thing is for sure, If he did not have that prior injury, we would have eaten a lot more chicken that year, and my wife would have room for a few more pictures on the wall today.

When and if full-inclusion of the crossbow happens in NY, will you continue to live and hunt here ? Thanks to your valiant efforts, and those of the 23 others who have voted against it at this point of this poll, it might be a while before you need to worry about making that choice. If you ever lost the physical ability to draw and hold a vertical bow, would you consider taking up a crossbow if it would add some more years to your archery deer hunting, or would you rather die before giving in to "the dark side" ? Personally, I am somewhat content with the two weeks that we get now in the SZ, and the additional 3 days (with no guns) up in the NZ, about a month earlier. If those days ran concurrent, and did not include all of the rut in the SZ, I would be much less so. It looks like the other 62 folks who have voted for full-inclusion want it pretty bad, so you certainly have your work cut out for you. Keep up the fight and you may be a real hero to your kind someday, just like Stonewall Jackson is to the South. Personally, I don't believe either of your causes is a righteous one, but you certainly believe in yours just like he believed in his.

Where was it found ? That might be where this busted-up 5-point fighter's 6th point ended up. I did not notice any bruises after I skinned him. All he lost in the fight was an antler point, and the end of a beam.

You are.

8" of penetration would be enough to get it all the way thru the heart and put it down within 40 yards.

Those are lined up pretty good right there. Someone 20 yards away could get two hearts with one bolt from a 300 fps crossbow.

It is a great poll there is no doubt about that. Some of those anti-full inclusion die-hards have to be getting some pretty sore feet about now. I sent your fine organization some money for a couple shirts (check out small game - groundhog thread), and I might just have send more and join up this year.

I hope you are right on that. It happened in lots of other states so NY should follow suit. It is hard to believe they can let the minority get their way for too much longer.

I remember having a foot of snow in my brand new boat when I woke up on opening day of walleye season in May of 1989. My buddy and I shoveled it out and towed it to Chataqua lake from their cabin near Salamanca. His dad and his buddy made the much shorter haul to the Kinzua reservoir later that morning. I knew where the deep holes were in Chataqua and we had our limit of walleyes in short order, using perch minnows and a Lindy rig. They never found any in Kinzua on that cold day. They wanted to stay closer, so they could do a little turkey hunting in the morning. I still have that boat, but don't do much walleye fishing from it any more.

I am thankful for the cold weather we have been getting, because I am behind on equipment maintenance. It did look like the winter wheat was starting to green up a little, prior to this last cold snap. That fall planted crop is mostly a nurse crop for the white clover and is also the the first place the deer will go after it greens up. My only spring plantings this year will be 3-4 acres of corn. I have plenty of leftover seed for that down in the basement and it will get planted sometime between Memorial Day and the Fourth of July. The ground needs to get warm enough and dry enough first. Last year, with all the rain, 4 acres was plenty and the last of it has finally been cleaned up over the last couple weeks. The year prior, with the worst drought in recorded history, that much only lasted until mid-December. Fortunately, that was all the way thru ML season which helped make filling the freezers with venison a piece of cake that year. What we lacked in vegetables, we made up for in meat.

How about one of these ?

The best part is, the more the anti-full inclusion folks reply, the more often the truth (poll results) comes back up to the top for all to see. They are so blinded by their hatred and selfish elitism that they cant even see how they are shooting themselves in the foot. What would Jesus want to see a deer killed with ?