wolc123

fsw/rwh is simply going off the deep end, because he realizes that the big antler craze has started to slow down and more and more folks are "settling" for smaller bucks to get some meat and put a little enjoyment back in the hunt. There were a minimum of three instances of that by prolific posters on this site alone last fall. It is hard to ignore the evidence when it is all right there for all of us to see. He has exactly zero evidence from this site to back his claim that it is ALL antlers for 99 % of hunters. It is getting to be more and more about the meat these days. It is no wonder fsw/rwh is now behaving irrationally with the name change, etc. He has made it very clear how his livelihood is dependent on the antler craze, and it has to be sad seeing that start to go away. I for one am very thankful that we still have him and a few other "real" trophy hunters toughing it out here in NY, rather than heading off to greener pastures in states which cater to horn-hunters. I am sure that there have been and will be times when those "baby-bucks" they pass on are all that prevents me from eating more store-bought chicken. Thanks again folks.

That was also my first shotgun, left to me by my grandpa about 40 years ago. I rarely use it anymore, because it is only effective under 75 yards, but I usually tote it a time or two each season in spots where long shots are not expected. I was sorely tempted to shoot that buck because I was on my grandpas old farm and it would have been the largest antlered buck that I killed on his farm with his old gun. The hunting has been poor there for many years, due to heavy tresspassing, but the new, high-strung owner of that brushy field out back has turned that situation around with his heavy-handed tactics. I really did not want to start out on the wrong foot with him. I did kill a fine 8-point with that old Ithaca 7 years ago, which got me in a little hot water with another neighbor who bought the woods across the road from our house. He did not mind me taking a smaller buck over there with my bow, but got a little testy when that big one went down to my shotgun. He may have been ok with it, had his trouble-making cousin not sent him a new years card (supposidly from me) with a picture of that buck's euro mount (on the left) on it. Needless to say, I do not hunt there anymore, but I think he got over it.

That nearly happened to me last fall. It was a 4 or 6 point and about 10 feet over the line. It would have been a 40 yard broadside shot with my Ithaca 16 gauge slug gun. I settled the crosshairs of the 1.5X Weaver scope behind his shoulder, patiently waiting for him to take a couple more steps. He did not, but walked away parallel with the line, and I did not shoot. I am not an antler guy and our meat supply was not yet secure at the time. It was past the mid-point of the season, so I was in full brown-down mode. If he would have stepped over the line, I would have shot regardless of the antlers he carried. I was wishing I had a grunt call, but I did not. Fortunately, a nice doe offered me a good shot the next afternoon, so I was able end the season with enough venison to last until this fall.

I would call the landowner and ask if I could take the tail (they work good for making fishing lures). If I could not get permission, I would not go near it. What would you do ?

It looks like we are up to 6 pages now. I am mostly just a weekend hunter myself. I have been very blessed that it has been easy to recognize the "Miracles from Heaven" that have enabled me to cleanly kill and recover all of the deer that I have shot at over the last 12 years. I do not get a lot of chances, and I am willing to accept about a 10% chance of loss when I pull the trigger. There is only one way to explain that long stretch of 100% recovery, and I could not be more thankful that I know what it is. I am also very thankful for all of the real super hunters, like four seasons, because the "baby bucks" they let go have often saved us from having to buy more chicken. Actually, my wife and daughters like that but I don't care for it. They do like venison a little better, which I am also very thankful for. It is very nice when your wife and kids encourage you to spend more time hunting. It sure beats standing in line at the grocery store.

Charlie may have struggled with a touch of antler idolatry, but he got over it before it was too late, as is illustrated so plainly in the OP. Hopefully FSW will also. As a meat guy, I appreciate him and all the trophy hunters for selfish reasons. The "baby-bucks" they pass, just might be what keeps me from having to eat chicken or pork at some point. At least he eats the meat from those big bucks and the does that he kills. When filling DMP's, I always have a touch of regret when killing a doe, thinking about the future bucks that she may have produced. It is not all about me though, and I never hesitate to do my part when our venison supply is not secure and an opportunity presents itself, always targeting the largest-bodied deer first from a group. I breath a sigh of relief if "she" turns out to have buttons and balls. I have yet to regret punching a buck tag, no matter how small it's antlers were. Some day that may cause me to miss out on a chance at a larger one, while out trying to fill doe tags, but that has not happened in 36 seasons of hunting. I will admit that most of my drive to hunt goes away after my buck tags are punched, so I probably suffer from a touch of antler idolatry myself. I have also passed on all of those with less than 3 points on a side for the last 10 years, but only to get a chance on one that has more meat on it. I do not see that part as antler idolatry, but just a case of hoping for a little more meat.

Have you ever tasted a 6 month old one ?

The advantage of the open sights in the rain/snow comes in the time it takes to get those lens covers off or opened. I have also killed a lot more with a scope, but I am much more comfortable spending $ 500 on a compact, open-sight brush gun, than I am with throwing away $ 24 on lens caps (or a scale). It is a lot easier to get close to a deer in the brush, when the wind is blowing hard and it is raining or snowing or the brush is covered with snow. Getting shot(s) off fast, at close range, in those conditions, should be easier with open sights. Especially if you have practiced thousands of shots in the off-season (gotta love those Daisy red-ryders). That said though, I am still using a scoped rifle in fair to moderate weather conditions for the reasons you say. I have not heard from anyone else who has perfectly executed a Texas Heart shot, but I know I would not have had a prayer with open sights on that one. Don't jump on me there, until you go back and edit out where you said you would "fire an 80 grain bullet at a deer from ANY angle". I used 150 grains from 50 yards there with a variable power scope set at 3X. Happy Hunting

It is nice to see a few guys waking up this year on this site. Antler idolatry seems to be on the decline.

It sounds like he had his priorities right. He learned that the "joy of the journey" comes from faith in Jesus Christ, and was not afraid to share that with others. That alone will make sure that his "journey" will continue forever. It is hard to overstate how much better the Earthly part that journey gets after making that connection.

Two counter arguments to the light bullet better in brush theory: 1) One reason that more areas have opened up for rifles recently is that shotgun slugs have been shown to cause more injuries. The theory on that is that higher speed, lighter weight rifle bullets fragment upon striking brush, whereas the heavier, slower slugs push thru. 2) When the army switched from .30 cal to .223, the enemy was a little safer behind trees. That said, I agree that using good glass to find a clear path for a light fast bullet thru the branches is a good option in fair weather, but futile in the rain.

Who is using 9 and 10 pounders ? Both of the ones I listed are under 7 pounds with the Ithaca 37 "featherlight" 16 gauge closer to 6 pounds with 5 slugs in it. The Marlin 512 Slugmaster that I use for most stand hunting is a close to 10 pounds and is definitely not a good brush gun.

1.) To end up with more than 200 pounds of venison so that we do not have to buy that much chicken and pork (not a big fan of white meat). 2.) Fill both buck tags. 3.) Improve a few stands to make them more comfortable. 4.) Break in my new Marlin 336BL 30/30 on an Adirondack buck. 5.) Kill my first antlerless deer with my crossbow (ideally a button buck). 6.) Kill my first late ML season antlered buck. I will be very thankful to stay healthy and end up with just #1.

Shotgun zone: Smooth bore Ithaca 37 16 gauge with 1.5X Weaver scope and foster slugs, or Remington 870 12 gauge with open sights if it is rainy. Rifle zone: Marlin 336BL 30/30 with open sights. The two shotguns have never failed me in the brush, but I have not got a chance to try the rifle yet. It is tough to beat a foster slug in those conditions. The high rate of fire of those pumps comes in real handy if the first shot does not connect. I don't mind picking a little bark out of my venison.

This guy must go by a similar rule. The piece he bought had been abandoned by the prior owners, for about 10 years. He closed on it and had it surveyed about midway thru archery season last year. I did not know exactly where my stand was, relative to the line, and it turned out that it was only about 5 feet onto my folk's property. He left a note on his nearest posted sign, asking that I move that stand and another one, that was about 40 yards onto his property, prior to gun season. I did as he requested, moving one 30 yards back, and the other about 100 yards back. He got very cooperative after I pointed out on his new survey that my folks owned the woods across the back and on one side of the new piece he acquired. We exchanged cell numbers and agreed to call each other if we had to trail a wounded deer onto the other's land. He showed me some trail camera video footage, including some of a large-bodied buck that I had killed a week earlier. My guess is that he would say "yes" to the hypothetical retrieval, but I would still have offered him at least some of the venison if it died on his land. It is always better to give than to receive. This guy bought a pretty big chunk of land and he took the same hard-line approach with multiple adjacent property owners. He said he was prepared to spend as much time as was necessary in court to see that he had his way. A few of the other neighbors got mad at him. The best result I see of his hard-line approach is that it has totally eliminated trespassing issues that have plagued my folk's woods for as long as I can remember. I did not see any trespassers last year, from archery season, thru the end of ML. My take on the situation is that if this guy asks for an inch, I will give him a mile. It is worth it to me, just to not have to deal with all the trespassers over there. The last place I want to waste my time is in court. This year I will probably tell him to feel free to shoot deer on our side of the line, if he would like to. If he reciprocates, that would be great, but even if he does not, the hunting over there is light years better than it was before he stepped in.

I am in a similar situation. In fact, I saw a live buck about that size and about that distance onto my folk's neighbors land last fall. He was headed towards the property line. The closest he got, would have been a 40 yard chip shot, 10 yards onto the posted land. I did not shoot, but if he had taken those next few steps, onto my folk's land, I would have. If he then ran back onto the neighbor's posted land and died in sight like that, I would have dialed the neighbor up on the cell phone and asked permission before retrieval. If he did not grant it, I would have told him the location and asked him if he wanted to keep it, and if he wanted me to gut it for him (I already had just enough venison for our family at that time and I do not know how he did last season).

I was a little scared to try one of the new "Remlin" levers, but so far so good with the new 336BL I picked up last summer (on the range anyhow). The trigger is about average, and the fit and finish are good. It cycles ok, but is still a little tight. I like the way it handles with the short barrel and "big loop". It seems to pop gallon jugs of water offhand with open sights pretty good at 50 yards, but I will reserve any other comment on it's quality until I try it on a deer. Maybe that will happen this fall depending on the weather. I still prefer hunting with a scoped bolt-action in good weather, so this open sighted lever will only get used in rain or snow with high winds. If it fails in those conditions, I will go back to my old, open-sight, short-barreled Remington 870 pump 12 gauge. That one has got the job done every time, but not all on the first shot. It is nice having those four other quick ones. I can cycle the pump a bit faster than the lever.

One nice thing about this cold stretch is that it will set the ticks back a bit. Those things had been getting pretty bad over most of the state after a couple consecutive mild winters.

I thought you were an antler worshiper

Once you figure out who controls the fate of all living things, life gets a lot easier, especially the hunting and fishing parts. There sure are lots of lost folks out there though.

I wonder if anyone has a chest girth table for squirrels so that I can see if I have enough freezer space ?

We had -1 this morning. I had the block heater on for 2 hours on my tractor, but I was not sure if it would crank. Fortunately it did, otherwise I would have had a lot of shoveling to do, so that my wife could get her van out of the garage so that she could get to the store. It was definitely a bit nippy out there with the wind, but nothing that a good pair of coveralls, boots, face-mask, hat and mittens with handwarmers inside could not handle. At least not for the hour or so that it took me to clear the driveways and haul a bucket full of firewood up to the porch. It sure is a lot nicer inside by the woodstove however. Maybe next weekend will be warm enough to try a little squirrel hunting. There is room in the freezer for a few of them, now that I pulled out a pack of liver to fry up for dinner.

You make a good point. The $60 Marksman pellet rifle that we bought our daughter for Christmas came with a 1" tube 4X Chinese scope, in addition to fiber-optic sights. It looks to be of pretty decent quality. I probably will not use it though, because she needs the practice with open sights for the high school rifle team. I usually go with mid-range scopes on my rifles and deer guns, currently having an old 1-1/2X Weaver, a couple Redfield Low-Pro widefields variable power (2-7X & 3-9X), and a couple 3X Bushnell Banners. Most are over 20 years old, none has ever fogged and they all hold zero and have clear focus. The Redfields are exceptionally good in low light conditions, even though they are not the top-end "Illuminator" models. We are always going to have a few who are hung up on the "you get what you pay for" thing. Personally, I think "a fool and his money are soon parted" is a better fit for most of those folks.

When I first bought my entry-level crossbow (4) years ago, I considered a scope upgrade. The on/off/intensity knob was quite difficult to rotate on the cheap battery- powered lighted-dot scope that it came with. My daughter would need to use a pair of pliers to turn it. Other than that issue, I really like that cheap lighted-dot scope. It has worked very well on all three bucks that I have used it on (still waiting for the first antlerless deer to present a good shot). Last fall, I killed my largest buck with it to date, deep in the woods and in the last few minutes of legal light. Having the ability to adjust the intensity and color (red or green) of those dots, while difficult, is a nice feature. In bright mid-day conditions out in the open the highest intensity is nearly perfect, as is the lowest in low-light conditions deep in the woods. I always use the green. The top dot works well out to 35 yards, and the middle at 50, which is as far as I would shoot at a deer with this 300 fps crossbow. The lower dot would probably work for targets at longer range. My biggest fear with that scope is the battery going dead during a hunt so I am always careful to carry a spare. I am no longer considering a scope upgrade for this crossbow, because one of my favorite theories has always been: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". If my daughter want's to use it some day, I can turn it on or off for her, or she can carry a pair of pliers in her pocket. I also lost the rope-pulley draw device for that crossbow last fall, in the excitement after killing that big buck. I don't know if she could draw it with the pair of direct-pull chain-clip & t- handles that I made up to replace it. Those are much faster for me than the rope pulley was, and may even allow for a quick second shot from up in a stand, if a group of antlerless deer ever shows up. That little crossbow is only 150 pound draw weight, so she might be able to handle it.

I am sure he is very thankful that you passed that buck. I know I would be if I was in his shoes. Thanks for doing the right thing, which more than makes up for the name calling.