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Hunting New York - NY Hunting, Deer, Bow Hunting, Fishing, Trapping, Predator News and Forums

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Everything posted by 123

  1. What has launched a flurry of posts was a statement of using whatever shell and under 30 yards it doesn't matter, not to worry about patterning. (paraphrasing) To question it has been a flurry of assumptions and the epitome of too lazy to bother akin to those that don't bother to pattern goose loads or duck loads, good enough they say. Because of my learned opinion to the contrary I am accused of being a keyboard wannabe, not selling books, can't shoot, flinch whatever. None of which is remotely true. I will say what I have to say face to face, and not the slightest bit timid should one doubt otherwise. I won't type just to waste someone's time or without an honest reason. Ego's first, rational discussion cast aside. King of the forum pathology in my view. Those that follow or know me, know that I own, maintain multiple dedicated turkey setups, use to own more, and slam gobblers year after year. Out of 148 moments of truth, 7 birds opted not to ride home in the truck in 26 years. 4 of which Winchester determined I had boxes of underloaded factory shells that should not have passed QC. They sent me two replacement boxes that I'll never use for turkey's ever again. I had my guns patterned with that particular load, just not from that batch. Truthfully, It never occurred to me that something like that could slip thru production in a modernized facility they have. Over the years countless shells tested and dozens of chokes, The early years of tungsten I did not find a combination I was happy with, worth using over copper plated lead. Even while working for Hevi-shot, I still used copper plated lead in some guns as it was what they shot best. Eventually I found a choke/shell combos for each gun that gave me consistent results in pattern density and uniformity in a 3" circle. As a rep and participating in still target shoots, I got to work through many more setups of others and gained the opinion I have. Unlike some of the poor advice being permeated here. I'll recommend to pattern, sight in every firearm you own every time, and with any load/shell you ever plan to use. Never be too lazy, too cheap to end up not knowing what you are putting downrange and in respect to your quarry for a clean kill. This for me was what flared up as some are too arrogant to back down their bravado to realize they put forth bad advice, especially for those that are just learning. Wives tales perpetuated from decades ago. Given the way folks are in here, those too attached with their ego's being a big fish in a small pond, I'll be visiting less often if at all as it is no longer a place of down to earth conversation. The decorum isn't worth the BS or to have an opinion not in concert with those having nothing better to do...
  2. hevi shot TSS and other tungsten loads do not pattern well with the tighter chokes used for lead, copper/lead and blow out the pattern. I have not found that lead or copper/lead shells pattern well at all with what works for tungsten loads. roughly a 0.030 to 0.050 difference in choke diameter depending on make and model choke. "A shotgun that shoots a ft from poi at 20yds should be thrown in the creek." well my comment comes from guns I have seen shoot lead straight, and took a bit of work to get the right choke and shell to not only pattern well, but with similar POI
  3. gotta hand it to ya, your arrogance outpaces your intellect by a country mile, too bad you can't accept any criticism for bad advice, or that you are totally assuming and disparaging when someone doesn't agree with you ... BTW I shoot just fine, better than some, again another dumb ass assumption from you. I'll be glad to repeat to you in person, just say'n.
  4. If you set up a gun for tungsten, especially with a more open choke, it goes to shit with target loads or some of the turkey loads of yesteryear. I've seen the point of aim vary as much as a foot @20 between hevishot and lead or copper/lead shells on 870's , 835's, 500's, 11/87s and brownings bps and auto's. Also seen Point of aim change between different offerings of tungsten loads/shot/sizes The point being was to not blindly take it afield without confirming. Took a few posts to change his tune
  5. You might have wanted to lead with that last bit, turning to shit is something you started with the click bait statement. Can't say I appreciate your comment about my books, but I'll know from now on your opinion and willing to state something you have absolutely zero knowledge of. My accountant does, you certainly don't.
  6. In my view, not a good president or I would ever care for his politics, but really not the focus as politics is razor sharp on most everything anymore. He's a turkey hunter, served our country and governed (you can discuss that elsewhere I guess) and I'll wish him Godspeed on his recovery as he took one for the team on the job...
  7. 1-1/2 spurs goes a long way to putting a big total score
  8. there are more when adding weight, spurs and or beards. Tell me more on yours as I am cutting off interviews this summer and may entertain good stories that are below the current criteria. As it is it will be a large book
  9. Let's be frank. I have no problem repeating anything I wrote in person and will gladly repeat in front of you. My contact info is easily found on the web, if you need it, no problem. I make it my rule to only type what I would say in person. those that know me, will attest to that. My guess a transference of accusations based on your own actions and intentions. As I laid out why I honestly disagreed with you, you are now backtracking while trying to disparage my other activities. Please tell the peanut gallery how many books I have sold.... I'll wait for your informed response. It's more than a few 1000 so guess higher. Made money on it. I'll also wait to see you dig up where I have stated never a missing or crippled bird. I have a well-told blog post on two boxes of underloaded Winchesters (i have the letter from the factory) that were the source of several gut-wrenching experiences with losing a bird. I have had a couple of pulled shots and murdered a few trees in that effort. Again, pointless for you to accuse me of such denial, as it is out there of what misfortune's I have had. As you appear inclined to disparage me with utter bullshit, it is clear you don't read my blog otherwise you would have not written such a foolish remarks. I am well enough versed in the mechanics of patterning as part of the professional side job I had conducting seminars and rep'ing Hevi-Shot. I left Hevi-shot when they began pushing their 75+ yard campaign as I disagreed in principle as I conducted seminars on how far is too far and indifference to their marketing ... I have gone on by your assertions and what I opinion as bad advice you originally spouted. All the patterning experience you claim, you left out of your original statements so it would appear you are engaging in click bait. Dumb, but that 's what it appears to be. In your effort to insult me as a book author or as a liar you expose to the group your intentions to just stir the pot and be the elephant in the room. For you to be now expressing the virtue's of patterning says much about your original intentions. And yes I'll gladly repeat this to you in person at a time and place of convenience. "My original point was, if I had to substitute a high-brass #5 in any of my turkey guns, or any of my shotguns for that matter, it WOULD be a slam dunk shot on a turkey at 30 yards." Is still reckless and foolish advice in my opinion. So unless you patterned it to know you would be the actual "pompous ass"
  10. easy, they shot them beforehand and knew what their guns did rather than guess like you. you've heard of range day and patterning? Dumb argument, willfully ignorant and willing to argue from an indefensible and less than a noble position
  11. not at all, your assumptions are unfounded and opinion based on ignorance, not a factual observation. Actually, a wives tale If your point of aim is off then all bets are off. Far too many examples of stock patterns that couldn't kill a gobbler at 25 yards much less 30, not to mention pulled a foot to the right or left and just as much high or low. Rep'd hevi shot for years and their tubes and done plenty of pattern single shot contests to bear witness to your claim as untrue. It is irresponsible and lacking in ethics to promote using a turkey gun without knowing what it does at any distance with a given choke and shell. Nothing difficult about being tremendously dumb about it.
  12. Would have to honestly disagree as you wouldn't have a clue as to how it patterned. in many cases, different loads shift the point of aim and or blow out the patterns. This is true even in same model gun and barrel and even further same make and model choke. Seen the same model guns and with the same model, chokes shoot vastly different with the same shells. Micromachining tool marks are what is not 100% the same. Many cases results are similar, but how would you know? To knowingly go after them without confirming as to how it patterns or where your zero is, is much like buying a new gun, and boresighting it at 10 pm the night before opening day. Your quarry deserves more respect than that.
  13. If you have gobblers that meet the current criteria we can certainly do an interview for inclusion. I am including NWTF registered birds and non registered birds. They do need to be verifiable. Weight is the tough one as few are hung on certified scales or even accurate scales.
  14. The book project has been on hiatus for a long period while I started a tech company. It will be a large book over 400 pages. For those that I have contacted or attempted to contact at the beginning of the project: Your stories will be available to review as I complete them. For those I have attempted to schedule an interview, I will be imposing a deadline July 15th to put this edition on track for publishing. That said, should you change your mind I would be more than happy to include in future editions as I want this to be a positive endeavor and share your stories for readers to gleam and learn from. If you haven't been interviewed and would like to be included, please contact me, I would love to include as many as possible that met the original score criteria. The placings have shifted some, however I am still going by my original list as what was unique and noteworthy then still is of course. I am working toward a late 2019/ early 2020 book release. There will be future editions as records are broken and those I attempted to include, catch up with the project. The more hunters that come on board that I originally sought to interview, the better. Any record book gobblers bagged in NY during the 2018-2019 spring/fall seasons? or years prior? If your bird meets the following scoring criteria, I would love to talk to you about being included in the book! Note: Non registered birds- measurable attributes must be verified for consideration. Typical score greater than 75.000 (weight x1 + beard x 2 + L & R spur x 10) Non-Typical score greater than 105.000 (weight x1 + beard(s) x 2 + L & R spur x 10) Weight greater than 26.5 lbs. (verifiable certified weight) Beard Length greater than 12" (verifiable length) Spur Length greater than 1.625" (verifiable length) Please contact: mjoyner@joyneroutdoormedia.com http://www.nylimbhangers.com/ https://www.facebook.com/Empire-State-Limb-Hangers-139342609441424/
  15. Great Bird! Stats? May meet requirements for my book project
  16. As 60-65-70+ yard shots are unethical in my view there is no point validating the compromise of close range coverage. At longer distances, there is more to go wrong, Errors in aiming are magnified, crosswinds have more effect on the shot string and pattern, and as vegetation however slight. What is also not mentioned is that claimed misses are many times not, A mortally wounded gobbler will haul ass out of there if at all capable. Feeding coyotes and vultures is not an exercise in ethics in my opinion. The promotion of longer ranges increases the probability of wounded birds as it does with missing at close distances. There are a few duplex/triplex loads that are designed to address the short range pattern coverage. It is one thing to up the performance of lethal impact, penetration, delivered energy on target at 30-40 yards. Having margin at 30-35-40 when you misjudge the distance by 5-10 yards yards is desirable. When you misjudge at 60-70+, the error is magnified. Studies on judging distance points this out. It is plausible to range find in a blind with those commonly used in archery, without a blind when the bird is in front, the movement would not be possible. It is another thing, less noble pursuit to promote ranges that the hunter compromises on due to a failure of effective calling, setup, hunting strategy.
  17. Scenario: It’s the middle of the second week of the spring season in Upstate NY. You are hunting state land and hear six, possibly eight different gobblers midmorning. After several volleys of nonstop gobbling, you determine they all are very close to each other. You make your moves to close the distance. Each call you make is drowned out by thunderous gobbles. As you close the distance you find they are just a hundred yards away on private land. With a grove of pine trees in front of you, you close to within fifty yards undetected. You also know the land drops down to the valley not much further out beyond the pines. You make the softest purr you can muster, eight strutting long beards gobble so hard your pants wave. In all the excitement you just now notice (except the dufus republican, and the conservative too focused on gobbling) to the far left of your setup there’s a 50-gallon drum painted in camo hung up against a big maple tree limb with a feeder motor. There is corn everywhere, there is also a 5′ high fenced enclosure just beyond the pines that leads to the farm below Eight strutting long beards appear. They drop strut into a dead run towards the feeder. You: Anarchist- You have in your hands, the fastest cycling semi auto 12 gauge ever made. You fire two custom made (on the black market) fragmentation rounds. All eight gobblers are flattened at the blast. You avoid the police, the conservation officers which are called as the blast is heard throughout the valley. You have a backup plan to kill them all, should events not go as planned. They’ll never take you alive. No tags are used or reported Democrat- Hunting? Firearms? It should be banned, after taxing it to death for twenty years. You back out, hatch a plan with the DNC, US AG, and the FBI. You pay for a full jacked up documentation package. Next day you sneak back using a silencer and poach them all as they show up at the first cluck. You destroy all evidence and lay out a two-year investigation blaming Trump Jr. as a hedonist animal killer. Despite the elaborate efforts you still lose out on 1st place at the local spring turkey contest scoring and weigh in. Republican– Landowner at work? You shoot two, sneak back over to state land, report your tags. Post like mad on Facebook. You then spend the next two years defending Trump Jr. You take 1st for beard, spurs, and weight. Rumors take on appearances as facts. You pick up your trophies leaving in a hurry and go on the fishing trip you just won… Libertarian- Do not give it a second thought, shoot two gobblers, get out. Nobody’s business, tags are not reported Conservative- You see the posted signs, you swear a bit, back up, set up and proceed to call in a gobbler from your right flank, and shoot. The birds out in front would not budge, not even to your $200 box call. They gobbled nonstop while you walked back to the truck. You tag and report. You go back a few days later hoping to call one off the property or until all the ruckus stirs one up from further down the ridge like before. Not a clue about the feeder until you hear it go off at 7AM. A pile of jakes show up at the feeder on cue. Mad as hell about the feeder, you leave. As you walk out in the daylight you notice the scattering of blood and feathers around the feeder. You get out of there and never look back. You have no clue about the enclosure until somebody at the diner accuses you of shooting a farm bird. You didn’t but now you are mad as hell, and damn sure it’s a liberal democrat that set you up. You decide to lay low, not enter the contest… Green Party- all hunters should be arrested for felony crimes against humanity. except you of course… -MJ © 2019 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
  18. Turkey Obituaries, Ode Of Respect As a dyed in the wool New Yorker of the upstate variety, May is a favored month since my first turkey hunt over a quarter century ago. With the explosion of social media, despite some of the pitfalls, and overblown strife, for us turkey chasers it is a blessing in disguise, even for those that take the sport of arguing to Olympic world-class levels. From the start of the early season in Florida up until the final days in June for Maine’s late season, we get a continual stream of stories of successes and fails along with every conceivable successful hunter pose that can be had. It’s all good in my opinion. From the gorgeous sunrises and sunsets, endless valleys and vistas, and especially the smiling faces, I more than enjoy seeing these in my daily news feeds. As the turkey obituaries are posted daily and will continue the current pace up until the last few weeks, there will be many tidbits to learn, secrets of the trade and maybe a new tactic to add in our bags of earned humility. Although I may have very specific methods I find most agreeable and not amiable to some trends that are legal in different states I enjoy each of the successes of my fellow turkey hunting brethren. We all see it from different views and perspectives, and the hunting terrain and associated tactics are greatly varied across the continent. As the majority of my posse of friends on Facebook, Instagram are verifiable turkey hunters, there are long listings of postings to like. The ones with many pics of the epic excursions and attached stories are the ones I find the most interesting. We glean and learn so much from them. The long spurs and rope for beards are certainly impressive, and some of the birds taken push the weight scales to make one wonder how they ever got hefted over sore shoulders and hauled back to camp. With some experience, you can tell when it is a first time taking a gobbler, or a very special time with family and friends. The smiles are wider, and the faces are beaming with the experience of a grand day. Those are my favorites. As I can recall favorite stories from battling birds with smaller proportions, tattered warriors, jakes with bigger than life attitudes, I can enjoy just as well the many shapes and sizes of gobblers that are encountered. The quality of the experience or epic nature of it is seldom indicated by trophy parts. If one hunts enough seasons you come to realize that the crazy antics, the more memorable events may come from the most unlikely of quarry. As one might relish an old buck a very old hermit gobbler may succumb to your charms underweight, with broken spurs and a beard long past its prime. As a hunter only you would know from many seasons in pursuit as to how old and crafty the old warrior may be. Those become treasured memories and a collection of stories destined for turkey camp. There is never a shortage of keyboard warriors, the shot one bird instant pro’s and other detractors that are quick to rain on another’s parade. There are far more of us that enjoy and encourage the newly successful hunters, especially women and kids who join our ranks. Admittedly they are far more pleasing to the eye posing with a long beard than us old grumpy turkey slayers, not remotely debatable in the slightest. As I think back over the many turkeys taken back home in the truck each of those stories or for purposes here “turkey obituaries,” are ingrained into memory in ode to respect and to moments well lived in a grand pursuit. It is why we pause when retrieving them after the shot, it is also why we give praise when we give thanks for a meal we anticipate. We might be cavalier in pursuit, while being outsmarted, however as we reach a successful conclusion we come to grips with what transpires in the hunt and ultimately to our plates. In Ode to the grand wily wild turkey, I would implore you to take the time to record your stories, take pictures throughout your adventure. I can without hesitation guarantee each of you that as you become an old turkey chaser such as myself and my brothers and sisters in camo you will be forever grateful to heed this advice and relish the memories you retrieve and relive from doing so… With a lot of the season left to go in New York, I wish you a safe and most prosperous time afield with family and friends and look forward to reading your contributions to the turkey obituaries as the season progresses! -MJ © 2019 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
  19. one hell of a hunt this morning in NY on one of my favorite ridges. Super quiet and the air was very still. The first gobble was almost 6AM. Moved up to within 150 yards Woods are wide open with no green up yet. 6 gobbles on the roost, and no response to a fly down. 15 minutes later the crow's startup, and they are coming my way. time passes and I get a consistent series of clucks straight out in front but beyond my sight line. Two jakes approach and now answer calls like they mean it. Strutter stays back in and out of sight, definitely out of range. Jakes walk within 8 yards of me and stop to gobble close enough behind me that you can hear that croak in their gobble. Stutter spins in place does not advance. I make two really soft yelps and I get my ears blown off as they walked up to the tree behind me. Impressive as they sounded like mature birds. This goes on for 90 minutes as the jakes want that hen, and won't leave, the strutter won't move. Fourth time back and forth from out in front to behind me in this game, the stutter commits and I drop him at 25 paces. One jake runs off,. the other stands there and just gobbles. Had to yell, and thrown sticks at him to make him leave. Odd bird, little over 17 pounds, no spurs, and three beards that two are broken off at 4.5" As I walked back to the truck after taking pictures, the two jakes were still gobbling until the rain kicked up and made for a wet mid-morning. Very fun and loud hunt, WIth the slow start of the opening ending up with gobbling right up till the noon fire whistle, it is a rather refreshing start of the season despite the lousy weather.
  20. not supportive of moving the date until such a time the biologist have data to warrant it. As to all day hunting, it's a wives tale and the biology does not support the notion that it does. A number of studies have rendered it moot with minimal impact.
  21. Have to see what is around northern Jersey as I should be working on and off in Princeton over the next few months. Turns rural not far to the west of the college
  22. run bushnell and eotech holo sights on all my turkey guns, I wear progressive lenses and it solves a focusing problem between rear site and front sight. The circle works for me as the eye naturally acquires and centers target. within the circle.
  23. I appreciate your kind words, Very happy you enjoyed as I sure did writing them
  24. why I wrote collections of hunts in three books, many really stand out, but over the years without notes, and pictures they merge with other hunts as great days. this spring I'll be working on #138, been fortunate to be in many right place, right time.