BIGTOM

I guess everybody has their own limits when it comes to exactly what constitutes that "final straw". All I know is taxation is a time tested way of reducing behaviors. It works! Even in cases where the amount really doesn't seem to be that significant. In some cases it is an exagerated effect that grows in people's minds. In other cases, it is a case of rebellion. And in a few rare cases, it is a real hardship. I know one thing, the impression is (true or not) that the NY sportsmen and women are being financial beat on a bit lately by the DEC. So it really doesn't take a lot more of the same kind of thing to set people off. Thank you Doc it's nice to see at least one moderator on here has some common sence!

Man, you just dont stop trying to deflect this way and that. I asked a pretty specific question of you. I was the one in this thread to point out that the 5 year plan isnt in effect, remember? Arn't you the one that said the reason the DEC is planing on doing away with the either sex tag so they can better control the heard? If so show us where they state that. If they did then it's just a smoke screen because do you really think they would say where doing away with the either sex tag to increase $$$!! They will tell say alot of BS to those who are dumb enough to buy it!! I don't think they are dumb enough to come out and say were doing away with the either sex tag because we need the money there for I dought what you are asking is in writing!! Yep, I said it almost immediately after reading the plan. You obviously havent read the clarification that the DEC came out with. I suggest reading it. I did read it and the state is pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining!! It's all about the money plain and simple!!!

Man, you just dont stop trying to deflect this way and that. I asked a pretty specific question of you. I was the one in this thread to point out that the 5 year plan isnt in effect, remember? Arn't you the one that said the reason the DEC is planing on doing away with the either sex tag so they can better control the heard? If so show us where they state that. If they did then it's just a smoke screen because do you really think they would say where doing away with the either sex tag to increase $$$!! They will tell say alot of BS to those who are dumb enough to buy it!! I don't think they are dumb enough to come out and say were doing away with the either sex tag because we need the money there for I dought what you are asking is in writing!!

Thats alot of cash the state just made off the backs of bow/mzl hunters by doing away with the either sex tag's!! > Don't go blowing smoke up my A$$ by telling me that the state can better manage the heard this way!! All they had to do is write in the regs that the either sex tags are not valid in the zones where they don't want does takin, and stated those zones buck only!!!

Selfish? If your not smart enough to figure out that it's about the money than I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge!!LOL If you think for one minute that the state has not been able to compile enough data over the years tellimg them what % of does are taken by bow/mzl hunters and than issued DMPs to offset the #'s of does needed to be takin than I'll sell you that bridge for the $10 "the price of my DMP"!! LOL I'm not saying in these fiscal hard times that the state doesn't need to come up with ways to make $ but don't blow sand up my rear end by telling me that doing away with the either sex tage well better enable them to control the deer herd!! They plan on "SELLING" those tages!! As I have stated before I would "GLADLY" by one of those tag's if they were to assure me that I would get it to compensate for the one that they plan on taking away!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over. First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!! If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!! First off, no need to be technical about the examples I used, you get the point. Second, maybe the fact that there are very few DMPs handed out in your area means that the herd in your area is not in great shape and needs to recover. If that is true, then why cant you see that maybe you shouldnt be shooting does there for a couple or few years so it can recover. Nah, you would rather just keep killing them and complaining about not seeing many deer. DEC isnt taking "your" tag away and selling it to anyone, they are trying to gain better control over the herd in areas like yours. BTW, if hunting is so poor in your area, hunt elsewhere. Ive given up two hunting areas that I used to go to for just that reason. Yes I get the your point your an opinionated person who first tells me how to spend my money and than tells me to go hunt some where else!! I'm born in raised in this area so this is where I love to hunt!! This is my home!! Yet other people apply for DMPs that live outside of this erea and get them. I say if you live work and pay tax's in that erea than you should have first choice. then there are those who get permits because they are land owners. Alot of them don't allow hunting yet they buy a tag and get a permit just so there deer don't get shot. There are hunting clubs that get land owner permits but won't allow the taking of does. Some clubs even have in there bylaws that members "must" apply for DMPs but won't allow them to use them on club grounds. I cook for a large hunting camp during the rifle season they have 3200 acers of land and got 24 land owner permits last year, they shot 3 does "for camp meat"!! Then there are those "old schoolers" that don't believe in shooting does yet apply for the permits so others won't get them!! If the state wants to control the heard than only give the permits to people who will use them. Have a check in station where you "must" bring in your doe to have it checked for age, weight, ect. just like they do with bears!! Then the state would know what hunters are reliable as a hunting tool!! I've been Participating in the bow hunter survey for 9 years. Last year i saw 51 does and 5 bucks. The numbers are skewed a healthy heard should be about 3 to 1. If you think this isn't about the state making more money off the DMPs than you got your head stuck in the sand!! I under stand that there is a need to improve there deer heard in my erea yet the states going to allow cross bow here to further "improve" deer management. It's about the $$$$ plain and simple!! If the state wants to improve the deer heard than why have a season on coyote's. They kill more fawns than hunters, they should have a bounty on those things!! It's all about the $$$!!! I say if you buy or are given "as are land owners" DMPs and don't use them than the state should not issue you them. Sell them to me I'll do my part "improving" the deer herd!! As just a bow hunter I would gladly pay the $10 fee for and DMP when I buy my archery tag if I was assured that I would get one!! So with your infinite wisdom tell me where it's fair to the bow hunter to take away the either sex tag!! IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!!

$10 is the difference between you hunting and not hunting? Really? Buy one less hunting accessory that you dont need or refrain from stopping at McDonalds twice and youll be able to buy your DMPs and have $ left over. First off I don't or won't eat any fast food!! Second I haven't bought any new accessory in years. It's not about the money. I live and hunt in an area that has "VERY" few DMPs in fact I havn't draw one in 3 years!!! There is antler restriction in this unit and I've seen 2 "LEGAL" bucks in that time. Both not in bow range!! If not for the either sex tag I would have gone "MEATLESS"!! By the way I've bow hunted sence I was 16 and I'm now 58 so I've seen the good and bad, but never this bad!! Why would the state want to take away my either sex tag and "SELL" it to another hunter other than for the $$$$!!!!

Sence I'm just a bow hunter if the state does away with the either sex tag I'm done deer hunting!!!

Living in 3M and having AR the last few year these are my observation. 1st- Hunter numbers have gone way down. Mostly hunters from NYC and the Island. Why? who wants to travel hours and not be able to take home some "meat". 2nd- I have a butcher that is a neighbor and only cuts up 1/2 the deer he use to. Last year Christmas was really hard on him for lack of funds!! 3rd- The deer that are reaching 3 or more years and are growing some head gear are getting "jacked" at night!!! Many just fo the antlers not the meat!! I travel 24 miles back and fourth to work "all country roads" and believe me the deer are not any bigger than they were 3 years ago!!

Funny that the state is giving it in the hunter ed gun program I guess even they realize that crossbows are not archery equipment. :-\

Try using a fighting purr.

Spur lengh is a good indicator but not fool proof. Some birds never grow spur's other's wear them down on rock and then there is the gentics factor.

Been scouting for a few weeks. Not much gobbling once they hit the ground!! Been watching 5 different birds so things are looking good as long as the youth hunt didn't bugger them up.

They now make a genaric brand for those little blue pills it's called Mycoxaflopin!

And do other bow hunters with my opinion get to decide? I think all NY sportsman should get to decide. If you think that this is only between bow hunter your wrong. I know many gun hunters that don't like the fact that this is happening!!! I say hold off for a year. Make it so that when the NY sportsman buy there tags this year that in order to do so they must answer a quick questioniar. 1- should cross-bow be legel in NY, 2- if so should they be alowed in the archery season, 3- should they have there own season. ect.ect. ect. I say let all NY sportsman decide and the the cards fall where they may!! I still think the MAJORITY SHOULD RULE weather I or you like it dosn't matter. It's what the MAJORITY of NY sportsman want. I have a funny feeling that the pro cross-bow will lose if the MAJORITY get's to chose and not the special interests!!!

The issue of cross-bow users taking the bow hunter couse has benn brought up. By Brother who is no longer with us was an instructor for many years, I remember when this was brought up a few years ago the state told the bow instructors that they would have to teach the new cross-bow hunters the course. My brother and from my understanding most if not all NY bow instructors said they wouldn't and if they were forced to do it they would drop there certificates. I don't know how they stand on the issue now but I dought it has changed much. My Brother I'm sure is rolling over in his grave now know that they have allowed the cross-bow into NY in any way shape or form. By the way the last 4 years of his life he was no longer able to hunt with a bow and would rather die knowing the sport as he knew "TRUE BOW HUNTING" than ruin it with the thought of useing a "CROSS-GUN"!!! My thought is if one chooses to hunt with a croos-bow fine but not during archery only season!!! Yes that means I don't consider croos-bows archery equipment.

I start scouting around the 1st of April by rideing around glassing the fields,power lines, pipe lines ect. Starting two weeks before the opener I'll start using one of my Gobbler calls that I make to local birds. Usually when I find birds that answer my gobble call I'll go back to the same spot and try to raise a gobble again. By the opener a have 1/2 a dozen birds home range figured out!!! when opening day comes I have more than one option to chose from. Here's a picture of my gobble box's.

What i'm saying is use some common sence!!! I've had guy's park right behind my car and walk right past me after I've made my presence obvious!! Two years ago I had a bird killed 60 yards in front of me after another hunter snuck into my set up all the while hearing me work the bird. The kicker is he parked behind me fisrt thing in the morning and I told him where I planed to hunt so he took the other side of the road only to come back after hearing the bird gobble on the roost. I personaly have walked away from birds after hearing what I thought was a hunter yelping only to find out I was the only one in the woods!! I would rather give up the hunt then ruin someones hunt!!! I've been turkey hunting for over 40 years and have found my fair share of jerks that just don't give a damn about the next guy. My father brought me up to a SPORTSMAN!!! You bust up my set up all the while knowing that another hunter just might be working a bird then your a slob!!! State Land doesn't mean all fair in love and war!!!!

The Catskills

Been hunting State Land for the last 15 years. I still fill my tags but the good old days are gone with the popularty of the sport!! It seems that the # of hunters double every year!!! That being said alot of my birds are killed late in the season after the crowds leave or way off the beaten path where nobody wants to go. A word to anybody who hunts State Land if you here a bird gobbling chances are there is another hunter working him. Stay clear let him enjoy his hunt and GO FIND YOUR OWN BIRD!!!! Last year my buddy and I had at least 6 hunts screwed up but other hunter coming in on birds we were working!!! How you may ask do you know if another hunter is working a bird? You don't but when in DOUGHT BACK OUT!!!

I just finished this Custom Handcrafted all Black Walnut Turkey Call. $65.00 shipped to you door. Thanks for looking BigTom

Here's a Classic all Walnut Turkey Call I just finished. It looking for a new home and is listed in the classifieds if anybody is interested.

Thanks for the comments guy's!! There is nothing like killing a bird with a call you built yourself. As far as the rattlesnakes go I've tried to avoid them at all cost!!! I was told a few years ago that the spot I hunt has a couple of den's but the lure of killing that longbeard over rides my common sence!! LOL!!

Lou I sure was glad to see that turkey do a back flip!!! I can't wait till spring to chase those "DUMB" birds!!

Having a little cabin fever I thought I would post last years spring turkey harvest. Both these birds were takin on state land using calls that I built.