Great News

[BizCT]

They also laugh at all the east coasters that are scared to hunt out of state without being led around by a guide.

Never heard that before.

If your trying to make a diss towards me, it's not true. I've hunted multiple states and 2 Canadian provinces without a guide.

Have you hunted out of state? Better yet, have you ever been outside of NY? What about your town, have you ever seen another town?

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[BizCT]

I have to disagree with you Biz-R-OWorld when you say 99% of other compound hunters never hunt from the ground. I personally hunt about 90% of the time on the ground with no blind at all and have killed a lot of whitetails doing this, bucks included....in fact I've killed only one deer from a stand (my first buck). I also know that I am the only person in my family who hunts from a stand during bow season. I have multiple friends who hunt from the ground too. I think that more people than you believe hunt from the ground.

Maybe your right , but based on what I read on this forum it appears almost everyone hides in a tree

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[Meat Manager]

Maybe your right , but based on what I read on this forum it appears almost everyone hides in a treeSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From all of your live from the stand reports and journal and fair chase harvest (or lack there of) reports it doesn't seem like your ground level techniques work very well unless you have some outfitter helping you out.

I don't mind other methods, but comparing wide open west hunting with the difficulty of big or small woods whitetail hunting is a joke regardless of methods. Mule deer and elk are about as stupid as can be.

I hunt in multiple states and just got back from a trans-alpine trip through Milan/Innsbruck/Munich...incase I needed some worldly creds.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Doc]

That is correct about bow hunters... but an increase in hunter numbers in any season does not necessarily equate to "excess" hunters. What is considered excess to some would not necessarily be excess to others. The guy who wants 100 acres of public land to himself might consider one more hunter in the woods excessive. I'm sure there are some public lands in NY that are small enough where added hunters could become an issue.. but for all the talk there is about increasing hunter numbers for the sake of deer population control and the future of hunting... there seems to be a lot of concern by some at the prospect of additional hunters in the woods. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

I don't see hunters giving up gun hunting for crossbows... I could see an increase in overall numbers before that... but like you, I won't believe any of it until I see it. I just think the crossbow will be a non-issue in years to come and fully accepted by bow hunters... much like the compound.

I'll be honest about my feelings regarding hunter density. The story is two part. When it comes to gun hunting, I want as many guys out there as possible. My success generally is dependent on hunters, on their feet making deer travel escape routes which my years of experience have helped me locate. That is a deadly combination of pressure and ambush. It works well in gun season because while escape corridors can be way too wide for bowhunting, I have found several pinch points that confine their travel to very good gun range. During gun season, you will often here me whining about the lack of hunters and hunter movement. So far, I have never seen a gun season where I felt there was "too much" pressure.

 

Bow season has always been a whole different kind of thing. Because of the nature of the bow, I cannot have deer running around totally spooked  and ignoring all the patterns that I have carefully learned during my scouting activities. I have to know where the deer are likely to be and when. No, there are no guarantees, and some years I do a better job of scouting and interpretation of sign than others, but my success or failure is based solely on my own efforts. I do not expect someone to drive the deer to me. I do not count on random interceptions based completely on luck and the fact that someone or some group has pushed deer in my direction. I try to keep my shots down to a very reliable 25 yards and under. You cannot do that if you are counting on random lucky opportunities. So if the hunter density increases significantly, scouting, patterning, and success goes out the window as conditions start approaching more of the gun season types of scenarios. Now this doesn't mean that I need a huge area exclusively to myself. And it really doesn't mean that an occasional accidental interference from another hunter will never happen. But there is some threshold where the pattern interrupting encounters cross over from the rare and occasional to constant and frequent. The latter is the condition of bow hunting that I would consider excessive density. And that is the condition that I fear with the insertion of crossbows into bow season. I also am guessing that crossbow hunters may be more mobile hunters particularly if they are of heavy gun experience and training. That too would have them doing much more disruption of patterns and more frequent hunt-busting. It could even create premature nocturnal movement in the herd which is death for a bowhunter. Now I'm not sure whether any of this is selfishness or not. I consider it a differentiation between conditions required for bow hunting and conditions required for gun hunting, and I hate to see the two intermixed because I do not believe that the two can successfully coexist and still maintain the bow hunting quality of the hunt.

 

That was the primary reason that I got into bowhunting. It was the one style of hunting where I could successfully use skill and close understanding of local deer movements to apply some intellect to my hunting instead of just the random acts of blind luck of having someone accidently push a deer in front of me as is the case for gun hunting. So I took on the very demanding challenge of learning the use of a very difficult weapon and entered a hunt that was limited in numbers of participants because of the demands of the weapon. The complexity of efficiently using the weapon kept the population of participants in balance with the requirements of the sport. Certainly if that all was frustrated by massive influxes of hunter density in the woods, I would really have no reason to go out bow hunting anymore. It would then be time to confine my hunting to rifle and use a weapon that was truly fitted to the random encounter style of hunting.

 

Holy crap. This thing has turned into a novel. But so many people ask how the insertion of crossbows could possibly impact my hunting, and I thought it was about time to answer that. That is the honest answer as to why I have opposed crossbows in archery season. I do not do the majority of my hunting on property that I can lock up and keep people off if the numbers spike ridiculously high (as I am convinced they eventually will). I do not have 6 million acres of public land that I can bury myself in to escape whatever radical changes that crossbows may cause in hunter density elsewhere. Yeah, technically it could be called selfish but to me it is the attempt to preserve a way of hunting that now runs the risk of being trashed. I suppose it's not really a huge deal for me because I likely don't have that much more time in the sport. But as long as I am participating, I feel the need to protect what has been so central to my life for five decades. Selfish or merely the defense of a cherished style of hunting .... who knows?

[BizCT]

I've killed 6 whitetail bucks from the ground without a blind

Mule deer are stupid? haha. Better sense of smell that a whitetail, that's for sure

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

Crowded would be a reason to belly ache... but as of yet nobody knows if any of that will happen. There is way more public land in NY than there are people to hunt it if hunters get away from the roadways and into the woods.

Agreed. I see vast lots of public land near my camp that gets little to no pressure. I wish it did. It would make my property much more productive.

[Meat Manager]

I'll be honest about my feelings regarding hunter density. The story is two part. When it comes to gun hunting, I want as many guys out there as possible. My success generally is dependent on hunters, on their feet making deer travel escape routes which my years of experience have helped me locate. That is a deadly combination of pressure and ambush. It works well in gun season because while escape corridors can be way too wide for bowhunting, I have found several pinch points that confine their travel to very good gun range. During gun season, you will often here me whining about the lack of hunters and hunter movement. So far, I have never seen a gun season where I felt there was "too much" pressure.

Bow season has always been a whole different kind of thing. Because of the nature of the bow, I cannot have deer running around totally spooked and ignoring all the patterns that I have carefully learned during my scouting activities. I have to know where the deer are likely to be and when. No, there are no guarantees, and some years I do a better job of scouting and interpretation of sign than others, but my success or failure is based solely on my own efforts. I do not expect someone to drive the deer to me. I do not count on random interceptions based completely on luck and the fact that someone or some group has pushed deer in my direction. I try to keep my shots down to a very reliable 25 yards and under. You cannot do that if you are counting on random lucky opportunities. So if the hunter density increases significantly, scouting, patterning, and success goes out the window as conditions start approaching more of the gun season types of scenarios. Now this doesn't mean that I need a huge area exclusively to myself. And it really doesn't mean that an occasional accidental interference from another hunter will never happen. But there is some threshold where the pattern interrupting encounters cross over from the rare and occasional to constant and frequent. The latter is the condition of bow hunting that I would consider excessive density. And that is the condition that I fear with the insertion of crossbows into bow season. I also am guessing that crossbow hunters may be more mobile hunters particularly if they are of heavy gun experience and training. That too would have them doing much more disruption of patterns and more frequent hunt-busting. It could even create premature nocturnal movement in the herd which is death for a bowhunter. Now I'm not sure whether any of this is selfishness or not. I consider it a differentiation between conditions required for bow hunting and conditions required for gun hunting, and I hate to see the two intermixed because I do not believe that the two can successfully coexist and still maintain the bow hunting quality of the hunt.

That was the primary reason that I got into bowhunting. It was the one style of hunting where I could successfully use skill and close understanding of local deer movements to apply some intellect to my hunting instead of just the random acts of blind luck of having someone accidently push a deer in front of me as is the case for gun hunting. So I took on the very demanding challenge of learning the use of a very difficult weapon and entered a hunt that was limited in numbers of participants because of the demands of the weapon. The complexity of efficiently using the weapon kept the population of participants in balance with the requirements of the sport. Certainly if that all was frustrated by massive influxes of hunter density in the woods, I would really have no reason to go out bow hunting anymore. It would then be time to confine my hunting to rifle and use a weapon that was truly fitted to the random encounter style of hunting.

Holy crap. This thing has turned into a novel. But so many people ask how the insertion of crossbows could possibly impact my hunting, and I thought it was about time to answer that. That is the honest answer as to why I have opposed crossbows in archery season. I do not do the majority of my hunting on property that I can lock up and keep people off if the numbers spike ridiculously high (as I am convinced they eventually will). I do not have 6 million acres of public land that I can bury myself in to escape whatever radical changes that crossbows may cause in hunter density elsewhere. Yeah, technically it could be called selfish but to me it is the attempt to preserve a way of hunting that now runs the risk of being trashed. I suppose it's not really a huge deal for me because I likely don't have that much more time in the sport. But as long as I am participating, I feel the need to protect what has been so central to my life for five decades. Selfish or merely the defense of a cherished style of hunting .... who knows?

Doc do you seriously think anyone is reading all that? Atleast break it ip into more digestible chunks. Go out and shoot your bow for an hour for gods sakes.

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[Meat Manager]

I've killed 6 whitetail bucks from the ground without a blindMule deer are stupid? haha. Better sense of smell that a whitetail, that's for sureSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I shot my first two bucks off the ground because I was/am afraid of heights...got over that because I prefer a good ambush and elevated position.

Different strokes...but you claim to be "better-than" with everything you do when really you seem as mediocre as the rest of us...if anything just more willing to pay people to take you hunting and criticizing anyone who does it different.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Doc]

Doc do you seriously think anyone is reading all that? Atleast break it ip into more digestible chunks. Go out and shoot your bow for an hour for gods sakes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If we have reading challenged people that have a problem reading more than some quick one-liners, it is likely that they wouldn't understand what I was trying to say anyway. The fact is that it is not a subject that can be broken down into little tiny sound bytes. Those that find it too challenging are not required to read it. Like I say it would likely go over their head anyway. But it addresses a question that is constantly asked. If no one wants to hear the answer, they never should have asked.

[Meat Manager]

If we have reading challenged people that have a problem reading more than some quick one-liners, it is likely that they wouldn't understand what I was trying to say anyway. The fact is that it is not a subject that can be broken down into little tiny sound bytes. Those that find it too challenging are not required to read it. Like I say it would likely go over their head anyway. But it addresses a question that is constantly asked. If no one wants to hear the answer, they never should have asked.

First everyone knows how you feel about everything because you have compiled atleast a 12 volume encyclopedia of your opinion on every subject.

Second no one gives a rats butt.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

I have nothing against people hunting from a tree. To each their own. How others hunt doesn't affect me.

I pay for guides when I need them. I don't have dogs to hunt cats with. In other instances, id rather spend a little more $ and have better success rates in 5 days than trying to DIY and spending more days and have less chances. Maybe when in retired I'll do more DIY hunts, but right now I can only take a week off at time from work.

Everybody values their time differently, I would never drive more than a few hours so I'll spend the $ to fly. I'll spend the $ for my meals and lodging as opposed to camping. I'll spend the $ to get steered in the right direction on where to hunt. I've been on several unsuccessful hunts, I try to pick n choose outfitters wisely. Lastly, I've never paid full price for any hunt. Everything is negotiable, and I always work out a discount or additional days for free, etc. I've been on hunts that work out to be cheaper than a DIY.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[BizCT]

By the way, in several places it's illegal to hunt without a guide with you.

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[Meat Manager]

I have nothing against people hunting from a tree. To each their own. How others hunt doesn't affect me.I pay for guides when I need them. I don't have dogs to hunt cats with. In other instances, id rather spend a little more $ and have better success rates in 5 days than trying to DIY and spending more days and have less chances. Maybe when in retired I'll do more DIY hunts, but right now I can only take a week off at time from work. Everybody values their time differently, I would never drive more than a few hours so I'll spend the $ to fly. I'll spend the $ for my meals and lodging as opposed to camping. I'll spend the $ to get steered in the right direction on where to hunt. I've been on several unsuccessful hunts, I try to pick n choose outfitters wisely. Lastly, I've never paid full price for any hunt. Everything is negotiable, and I always work out a discount or additional days for free, etc. I've been on hunts that work out to be cheaper than a DIY.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Way to go Alex p Keaton...you're a 

And you've been bs talking all day and night every chance you get you are a troll.

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Edited April 4, 2014 by burmjohn
Language

[Doc]

First everyone knows how you feel about everything because you have compiled atleast a 12 volume encyclopedia of your opinion on every subject. Second no one gives a rats butt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When did you become the spokesman for the forum? Why don't you just go back to tooting your own horn about how great a world traveled hunter you are and let these threads progress without your disruption. And try not to throw your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back. I might also suggest that you take some remedial reading courses since you seem to have a difficulty in that area. Sorry to have thrown such an overwhelming challenge at you.

[Meat Manager]

When did you become the spokesman for the forum? Why don't you just go back to tooting your own horn about how great a world traveled hunter you are and let these threads progress without your disruption. And try not to throw your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back. I might also suggest that you take some remedial reading courses since you seem to have a difficulty in that area. Sorry to have thrown such an overwhelming challenge at you.

I am so sick of every thread always turing into the exact same thing...doc opining and belo and biz hating away.

Does anyone care to share any constructive and productive information on bow selection, jerky, DIY backstops, deer processing without it turning into doc repeating paragraphs about the sky falling and biz telling everyone they aren't a real hunter with fancy enough shit.

it would just be great to stay on topic and maybe try an occasional thread that transmits positive and constructive info on hunting, not the same drek day in and out.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

Way to go Alex p Keaton...you're a dousche.And you've been shit talking all day and night every chance you get you are a troll.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now I'm a troll? Lol. I have thousands of posts and the majority of them aren't arguing with jealous guys, like you

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[BizCT]

I am so sick of every thread always turing into the exact same thing...doc opining and belo and biz hating away.Does anyone care to share any constructive and productive information on bow selection, jerky, DIY backstops, deer processing without it turning into doc repeating paragraphs about the sky falling and biz telling everyone they aren't a real hunter with fancy enough shit.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you don't like it, you can leave! Try bowsite forum, lots of guided hunts to read about there!

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[Meat Manager]

Now I'm a troll? Lol. I have thousands of posts and the majority of them aren't arguing with jealous guys, like youSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jealous how...you got nothing on me son. Balling.

More than half your posts are attacks and beefs.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Doc]

I am so sick of every thread always turing into the exact same thing...doc opining and belo and biz hating away. Does anyone care to share any constructive and productive information on bow selection, jerky, DIY backstops, deer processing without it turning into doc repeating paragraphs about the sky falling and biz telling everyone they aren't a real hunter with fancy enough shit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well then here' something that will put you out of your misery. Since everyone's posts make you sick, why don't you do yourself a favor and everyone else too and go somewhere else. Nobody is mandating your presence here.

[Meat Manager]

Well then here' something that will put you out of your misery. Since everyone's posts make you sick, why don't you do yourself a favor and everyone else too and go somewhere else. Nobody is mandating your presence here.

Doc, I enjoy about 99% of the members but your shit is constant and redundant and the typical haters are just as annoying. It's you I can't stand.

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[d-bone20917]

Never heard that before. If your trying to make a diss towards me, it's not true. I've hunted multiple states and 2 Canadian provinces without a guide. Have you hunted out of state? Better yet, have you ever been outside of NY? What about your town, have you ever seen another town? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Why would you assume that's about you?  But if the shoe fits.....

[BizCT]

Because you're always following me around making comments

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[Doc]

Doc, I enjoy about 99% of the members but your shit is constant and redundant and the typical haters are just as annoying. It's you I can't stand. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well look, I have been told there is an ignore button on here. So why don't you go off and check it out. Who the hell needs your whining and random attacks and crying about how you have difficulty in reading. If you have a problem with me then either leave or find that ignore feature because I can assure you, I ain't going nowhere.

[BizCT]

Jealous how...you got nothing on me son. Balling.More than half your posts are attacks and beefs.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Balling? Lol. Are we in a rap music video?

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[Arrow Flinger]

Doc, I enjoy about 99% of the members but your shit is constant and redundant and the typical haters are just as annoying. It's you I can't stand. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Better watch the language, the churchgoers will be here to condemn you shortly.