I was happy to see Clinton lose. Now I will be happy if this tax plan doesn't go through.

[Core]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I understand you are upset but you just aren't gettign it. In your you have to compare Jim to Sam from NY that also makes 90k. What you are trying to do is equal to comparing your and my tax burden to Warren Buffets. That is the apples and oranges. 

I'll make it simple. I already pay more in federal taxes than the average American. I don't want to pay more. And I will hold responsible whichever politician or party increases them. At the end of the day that's all I can do.

What's fair? That $100k here results in less federal than in Alabama? Or is it that the average guy in NY already pays more in federal taxes than the guy in alabama anyway? Or that Alabama takes more federal money toward its budget than other states? It's hard to say what's fair in taxes. Half this country pays no meaningful federal income tax anyway while I pay a lot and people above my salary pay even more. The poorer people depend on me, not he other way around. And in truth I'm not paying my share, either; if I made $1M/year I'd be out 6 figure federal tax income. People like that are keeping the carriers afloat and the lights on in DC.

So it's hard to say what's fair, which is why I can only distil down to who makes me pay more. I don't like it, so I will blame them.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Core

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Core said:

I'll make it simple. I already pay more in federal taxes than the average American. I don't want to pay more. And I will hold responsible whichever politician or party increases them. At the end of the day that's all I can do.

But you pay less than others making the same amount.  That is simple and is a fact. 

[Core]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

But you pay less than others making the same amount.  That is simple and is a fact. 

But I already pay more than the average American, even in a red state. That is simple and is a fact.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Core said:

But I already pay more than the average American, even in a red state. That is simple and is a fact.

Our tax code isn't set up on averages. It is a graduated system based on your personal income. 

[Core]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Our tax code isn't set up on averages. It is a graduated system based on your personal income. 

Kind of. It's also based heavily on various deductions which are not applicable to all people. It sounds to me like for logical consistency in taxes you don't believe the child tax credit should continue. Because if one family makes $100k and another makes $100k but the second has three kids, now their tax bill is less $3000. Are you for removing all deductions/credits?

I'm not sure what your point is in all this. Do you think New york is not paying its fair share of taxes? Because I agree: we are paying too much as it is. As I said early in the thread and provided data for. Here's more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/us/politics/fact-check-state-local-taxes-republican.html

Quote

Multiple studies show that most states that are considered to be a “net donor” — those that pay more in taxes than they get back from Washington — also benefit the most from the state and local tax deduction...New York State’s comptroller, in an October report, found that 13 states, including New York and California but not Indiana or Iowa, paid more in federal taxes than they received in federal spending in the 2016 fiscal year.

Say after me: New York already pays more in federal taxing than it receives in federal spending. This delta will become even more severe if the republican plan is executed.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Core

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, Core said:

Kind of. It's also based heavily on various deductions which are not applicable to all people. It sounds to me like for logical consistency in taxes you don't believe the child tax credit should continue. Because if one family makes $100k and another makes $100k but the second has three kids, now their tax bill is less $3000. Are you for removing all deductions/credits?

I'm not sure what your point is in all this. Do you think New york is not paying its fair share of taxes? Because I agree: we are paying too much as it is. As I said early in the thread and provided data for. Here's more:
 

I am actually in favor of a flat tax. So I guess you could say yes I believe the child tax credit should go as well.  I''d even entertain a flat rate with the addition of a sales and use tax.  If you and I decide to have children why should our tax burden be less than someone who chose not to if we are making the same amount?

I do not understand why you keep clouding the water with State ranking in contributions it has absolutely no bearing on the taxable responsibility of the individual  when discussing federal taxes. I can say with 100% confidence that you pay way more tax than you should and I don't even know you.  I also know I do as well. When just discussing federal taxes I can also say that you and I, individually, pay less federal income tax  than people making the same income as you and I  in other states with  less or no state income tax.  Our ultimate tax burden is without a doubt way higher than about any other place in the country but that is  NOT becasue of the federal taxes. It IS becasue of the state and local taxes.  SO my point is I understand your anger about the taxes, I share it. But your anger is misplaced. It should be directed at the state and local level.  Because on the federal tax stage we have been getting a discount that other people, making what we make, in the country do not get

[Core]

On 11/14/2017 at 1:42 PM, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I am actually in favor of a flat tax. So I guess you could say yes I believe the child tax credit should go as well.  I''d even entertain a flat rate with the addition of a sales and use tax.  If you and I decide to have children why should our tax burden be less than someone who chose not to if we are making the same amount?

I do not understand why you keep clouding the water with State ranking in contributions it has absolutely no bearing on the taxable responsibility of the individual  when discussing federal taxes. I can say with 100% confidence that you pay way more tax than you should and I don't even know you.  I also know I do as well. When just discussing federal taxes I can also say that you and I, individually, pay less federal income tax  than people making the same income as you and I  in other states with  less or no state income tax.  Our ultimate tax burden is without a doubt way higher than about any other place in the country but that is  NOT becasue of the federal taxes. It IS becasue of the state and local taxes.  SO my point is I understand your anger about the taxes, I share it. But your anger is misplaced. It should be directed at the state and local level.  Because on the federal tax stage we have been getting a discount that other people, making what we make, in the country do not get

Thing is these states have passed tax laws under a framework of being able to deduct taxes, which is extremely long-standing. So the fed has changed the rules.

I think a flat tax would make the lower and middle class wake up to exactly how much they are carried by the rich--it won't pass.

It looks like this particular plan is at risk of failing. One more lost vote away from a tie-breaker needed by Pence now:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-sen-ron-johnson-opposes-gop-senate-tax-package-1510777290

[philoshop]

17 hours ago, Core said:

Thing is these states have passed tax laws under a framework of being able to deduct taxes, which is extremely long-standing. So the fed has changed the rules.

I think a flat tax would make the lower and middle class wake up to exactly how much they are carried by the rich--it won't pass.

It looks like this particular plan is at risk of failing. One more lost vote away from a tie-breaker needed by Pence now:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-sen-ron-johnson-opposes-gop-senate-tax-package-1510777290

Senator Johnson's gripe has nothing to do with the SALT (state and local taxes) you're talking about. His concern is that pass-through corporations like LLC's, S-corps, and sole proprietorships don't get the same tax rate as big corporations, which in most cases is untrue when all other factors are considered.

[Core]

2 hours ago, philoshop said:

Senator Johnson's gripe has nothing to do with the SALT (state and local taxes) you're talking about. His concern is that pass-through corporations like LLC's, S-corps, and sole proprietorships don't get the same tax rate as big corporations, which in most cases is untrue when all other factors are considered.

That's okay. Hopefully another couple of guys bail and that's that. Doesn't look hopeful at this point, though.