Hybrid Load for 30-06

[eagle rider]

Now this ought to get folks talking,...... 

Gonna look to make my 7400 into a brush gun, hehehehhehehe, but in a dual purpose kinda way.  Setting up for a 180gr Speer Hot-Cor with 58 grs of RL19.  Should get me up around 2700 FPS.  It will only be 4.1" low at 200 and be a sledge hammer the whole way with more than 2900 foot pounds at the muzzle!!!!!  Hence the dual purpose.  Can work well in the tree stand with nice deep shooting lanes and still be heavy, and not so speedy that it will be easily deflected in the thick brush getting to and from the stands. 

[moosemike]

More power to you. But I've shot six deer with 180 grain bullets in .30 cal and I can tell you  those days are over. The 180 goes in one side and out the other and leaves more of a pencil wound through the deer. The deer then runs and you blood trail him for anywhere from 50 to 150 yards and then you collect your deer.

With a 150 grain you shoot and the deer falls within sight and you walk over and get your deer.

[eagle rider]

Actually, weight is far less a factor than construction.  The Hot-cor is a reasonibly thin jacket.  Its designed to shed weight so there is every reason in the world for it to expand.  I wonder what kind of bullets you were using when you were producing pencil hole exit wounds?  As an example a 35 Remington is a 200 gr bullet moving at a lower velocity.  Take the Hornady Leverevolutions, they are much better constructed than a Hot-cor, I have personally shot deer with this very combo and produced quarter sized exit wounds.  I think if you are playing the speed kills game, I fully agree with the 150 gr loading.  In fact that is what I load in my bolt action 700 (also a 30-06).  A 150 gr. Nosler B-Tip with 59.5 grs of RL-19.  Its a scream machine just over 3000 FPS.  I would not expect that less massive, lighter, faster 150 gr bullet to get through brush with minimal deflection as the heavier 180 gr will. 

[covert]

More power to you. But I've shot six deer with 180 grain bullets in .30 cal and I can tell you  those days are over. The 180 goes in one side and out the other and leaves more of a pencil wound through the deer. The deer then runs and you blood trail him for anywhere from 50 to 150 yards and then you collect your deer.

With a 150 grain you shoot and the deer falls within sight and you walk over and get your deer.

My experience with 180s is the exact opposite.  I've shot four deer with 180s from my '06, two with  Federal classic SPs and two with Federal HE Nosler Partitions and every one dropped in it's tracks.

On the other hand, both of the bucks I shot with my .450 Marlin just kept walking like nothing happened.  One I put three (350 gr Interlocks) through and the other took two (325 gr nerf bullets) before dropping.  All were good hits in the boiler room but there was a .458 hole going in and a .458 hole coming out.  The weird part was they didn't react at all, never broke stride or acted like they had been hit in any way.

This year I have some 250 grain Barnes TSX FP loaded for the .450 so we'll see how they work. ;D

[moosemike]

Actually, weight is far less a factor than construction.  The Hot-cor is a reasonibly thin jacket.  Its designed to shed weight so there is every reason in the world for it to expand.  I wonder what kind of bullets you were using when you were producing pencil hole exit wounds?  As an example a 35 Remington is a 200 gr bullet moving at a lower velocity.  Take the Hornady Leverevolutions, they are much better constructed than a Hot-cor, I have personally shot deer with this very combo and produced quarter sized exit wounds.  I think if you are playing the speed kills game, I fully agree with the 150 gr loading.  In fact that is what I load in my bolt action 700 (also a 30-06).  A 150 gr. Nosler B-Tip with 59.5 grs of RL-19.  Its a scream machine just over 3000 FPS.  I would not expect that less massive, lighter, faster 150 gr bullet to get through brush with minimal deflection as the heavier 180 gr will.

I was using the Remington Core-Lokt, Win. Power-Point, and Sierra Pro-Hunter. I don't really buy into any "brush bucking" characteristics too much of one bullet verse another. Too many tests have been done by gunwriters and no real winner emerged. I just try to pick my shots between the brush if I can.

[moosemike]

More power to you. But I've shot six deer with 180 grain bullets in .30 cal and I can tell you  those days are over. The 180 goes in one side and out the other and leaves more of a pencil wound through the deer. The deer then runs and you blood trail him for anywhere from 50 to 150 yards and then you collect your deer.

With a 150 grain you shoot and the deer falls within sight and you walk over and get your deer.

My experience with 180s is the exact opposite.  I've shot four deer with 180s from my '06, two with  Federal classic SPs and two with Federal HE Nosler Partitions and every one dropped in it's tracks.

On the other hand, both of the bucks I shot with my .450 Marlin just kept walking like nothing happened.  One I put three (350 gr Interlocks) through and the other took two (325 gr nerf bullets) before dropping.  All were good hits in the boiler room but there was a .458 hole going in and a .458 hole coming out.  The weird part was they didn't react at all, never broke stride or acted like they had been hit in any way.

This year I have some 250 grain Barnes TSX FP loaded for the .450 so we'll see how they work. ;D

Maybe you shoot for the shoulder? I tend to go behind the shoulde with my shot placement.

[covert]

One through the neck, one broadside behind the shoulder, one quartering towards behind the shoulder and one quartering away behind the near shoulder and through the far shoulder.

Also I agree with moosemike about the whole "brushbucking" thing.  You hit sticks there's no predicting where the bullet will go.

[Pygmy]

I suspect that your 180 grain Speer will kill 'em just fine, eagle..

Moosie, I respect your experience and observations, but I really have never had any trouble with ANY expanding bullets "penciling" as you describe and failing to expand.  A friend of mine, however, told me that he had it happen with a 140 grain Coreloct in his 7mm08, and he had a long tracking job with sparse blood. He said he never would have found the deer without snow.

As far as bucking brush, I lean with the guys who say to pick an opening. In my experience, even shotgun slugs deflect badly if they hit anything of any substance, like brush.

[eagle rider]

thanks, I think the goal here is to define brush.  Sticks and twigs ain't brush to me, brush that I have in mind is high marsh grass, catails and the like, not so much the understory of the forrest.  I would try to pick an opening through that crap (lots of mountian laurel around us to deal with).  I'll take an extra 30 grains to deliver the mail with a little higher SD anyday for that sort of crap. 

[moosemike]

thanks, I think the goal here is to define brush.  Sticks and twigs ain't brush to me, brush that I have in mind is high marsh grass, catails and the like, not so much the understory of the forrest.  I would try to pick an opening through that crap (lots of mountian laurel around us to deal with).  I'll take an extra 30 grains to deliver the mail with a little higher SD anyday for that sort of crap.

With that being your definition of brush I agree with your choice of projectile. I feel that a 180 will absolutely go through "light brush" and stay on target better than lighter bullets. When you said brush I was picturing saplings and limbs and I don't think bullets that hit such things can be counted on to stay on course.

Also as far as "pencil wounds" go my 180's didn't fail to expand, they just didn't expand to the degree I would prefer. Every deer I ever shot with 180's I found very dead. I just like the DRT results I see with the 150 a lot more.

[Pygmy]

Gotcha covered, Moosie.. I understand what you are saying, and have no doubt that has been your experience.

However, in my experience, most lung shot and heart shot deer have run a distance regardless of the projectile..I have shot quite a few critters including deer/caribou /antelope with my .280 and 140 ballistic tips @ 3000fps. They basically ran as far as any critters I have shot with other projectiles, including shotgun slugs, with similar hits.

Regardless of bullets or velocity, the only time that my animals seem to fall down right where they stand is when I hit  OR PASS CLOSE TO the CNS or shoulders.

[eagle rider]

dropped my big boar with a 250 gr spire point from a 35 Whelen at 75 yards.  Piggy went down like a meator hit him and he was 300 pounds on the hoof.  The only missing from him was his heart when we gutted him, sometimes its better to be lucky than good.  So in that regard, I think its possible to flatten a deer, the vodoo has to be perfect.  My buddy put down a mutant huge spike two years ago well past 100 yds with a 180 gr from a 308 Win.  The deer was not spooky at all, seems to me spooky deer always run some.  The calm one fall down fast, maybe that's the affaect of a little adereline. 

I think you nailed it on the head, the 180 gr will be good for light brush.  I think you hit lumber with anything and all bets are off, ....deflection city!!!!!!

[moosemike]

Gotcha covered, Moosie.. I understand what you are saying, and have no doubt that has been your experience.

However, in my experience, most lung shot and heart shot deer have run a distance regardless of the projectile..I have shot quite a few critters including deer/caribou /antelope with my .280 and 140 ballistic tips @ 3000fps. They basically ran as far as any critters I have shot with other projectiles, including shotgun slugs, with similar hits.

Regardless of bullets or velocity, the only time that my animals seem to fall down right where they stand is when I hit  OR PASS CLOSE TO the CNS or shoulders.

For some reason Antelope have always gone straight down when I've shot them. I've shot two with a .270 Winchester and 150 grain loads and two with a .308 and 150 grain loads and they all four were DRT's including one that I killed on a dead run at 125 yards and it somersaulted at the shot. I then shot a whitetail with that same  .270 150 grain and had trouble finding it. Good hit but very little blood and the deer traveled over 100 yards.

[eagle rider]

My experience on both prong horn and whiteys' is that antelope live in grass lands and tend to run in straight lines, more or less. Deer cut back and up through cover all of the time and head to run towards thick crap when they are hit. If you take your time and make your circles on a good hit you will most likely find the deer..... As far as bullets, weight and caliber choices go, there's all kinds of wounded there's only one kind of dead! Rather shread a little more choice cut into stew chunks and get a DRT hit anytime than walk in concentric circles for an hour or so. The 30 and 35 cals are great for that. The 270 is good too. Just seems that the more forward mass you put into the boiler room the more you can get away with as far as shot placement goes.

[the blur]

7400 is a great gun. I brought mine in the 90's

[eagle rider]

I inherited my dad's,,,,,, He bought his in '85.