Doc

I know there are people who believe that every environmental conservation law is contained in the game syllabus that is handed out when you get your license. Well, that really isn't the case. It's not all on the DEC web-site either. It is in the volumes of law books that hardly any hunters own. And inside these law books are hidden some of these laws that contradict each other or are written so poorly that they can be interpreted several ways and some that are so obtuse and written in such a way that it requires a judge to untangle them, and often even he is simply rendering an "opinion". So really all you can do is try the best you can to live by the laws as you personally understand them and hope that you are not inadvertently or accidentally breaking any laws that you don't understand or that have not been adequately made available to the public. To me violations of the kind that are buried and contradictory and confusingly written are in a whole different category from those violations where the hunter fully understands the law and knows full well that he is breaking that law, and then publicly boasts of his violations. Unfortunately enforcement and judicial branches of government make no such distinction, and in truth can not. No one has ever said that our system of laws or any system of laws is flawless. But just imagine a world without them ..... lol. Responsible citizens do the best we can to abide by the law and teach our children to do the same. For some, responsibility is optional.

It might just happen that if does were the only legal harvest, all those antlerless permits that the DEC wants to be successfully used might actually be used. Perhaps the numbers would go down to near nothing like they want. Perhaps we would find out just how much of a challenge does really can be when they start getting as scarce as bucks. The fact is that we might actually get to see just how stupid all our prized mysterious bucks really are when their numbers grow to where doe numbers are today ...... lol.

Ha-ha-ha-ha .... Now there is a hell of baseless assumption.

I don't remember anyone claiming that they have never broken a law. What is being claimed is the fact that the guy involved his kid and others and passed it off as being proper conduct, in effect instructing his kid that game laws can be ignored. This is a guy who advertises his disdain and disregard of the legal system. And the disgust being expressed here is about the support that he seems to get from others who apparently have the same mentality that he does. Point #2: I did not hear Grow claiming that she thought her rolling stop was justified. She took her ticket without an argument. Nobody here is being divine or righteous, but simply acknowledging that we are a nation of laws and obligated to abide by those laws, and there is seldom any justification for willful disregard for those laws and then pretending to the world that they were right to do so.

Yes, different states have different laws. That's not a new discovery. Yes some laws make sense some do not. NYS has no corner on that. One thing they all have in common is that it is illegal to violate those state laws regardless of what state you are in or whether you agree with them or not. The legal system is not a code of "suggestions". The words of support for this guy amounts to the same thing as praise to me and that is what I am reacting to. Perhaps "condoning" is a better word than "praise", but to me it all represents the same mentality that simply accepts law-breaking as proper conduct.

I smoked cigarettes for a lot of years, but I would never tell my kids that they should start smoking. That may meet your screwy ideas of hypocrisy but it still meets the criteria of responsible parenting. I hope I'm not telling any of the parents here some kind of special "news flash".

There seems to be some assumption that those who claim that they would hunt with the same level of enthusiasm in a doe only season, have something against taking bucks. I'm not sure where that notion got started. But let me just say that for myself, I like hunting deer ..... any kind of deer. And yes, I would be very charged up about a doe-only hunt. That does not mean that I have something against shooting a buck. If it is a deer, I enjoy hunting them. I am not out there shooting does as some kind of horrible penance or civic duty. I enjoy doe hunting and do get excited and eager to do so.

What is with all this worship of law-breakers? You all think it is ok to teach your kids about picking and choosing which laws are to be broken based of an opinion. Praise the lawbreakers and mock those that abide by the law ...... great message to pass on to your children. If there is anything that the word "disturbing" should be used for, it is the mass-support for teaching children to ignore laws. And that is exactly what a lot of the replies on this thread are expressing.

Well just to keep things on track, the question was not about changing hunting styles, but was about hunting at the "same level and desire". None of that has a thing to do with ARs. The one similarity in issues is that they are both concepts that would be attempting to remove current accepted choices for hunters, which likely is not good for the maintenance of the sport regardless of what our personal individual choices may be.

Likely it is just a "tit-for-tat" response to those that arrogantly look down their noses at the hunters who are not trophy hunters. See it all revolves around this strange need that hunters have for commenting on the selections of others. Apparently it can manifest itself in two distinctly opposite directions......lol.

It seems that maybe there has been a lot of "topic drift". The actual original question was: "If they stopped all buck hunting, Would you continue to hunt at the same level and desire? What would hunting mean to you?" There is nothing there that tells anybody what they are supposed to think or feel or do. It's a simple question regarding your personal reaction to a specific scenario. Nothing there asking anyone to critique anyone's opinion or justify your own. I believe that people can have opinions on this question without "high-horse" accusations or accusations of lying. My opinion is that I would continue to hunt at the same level and desire. Does that mean that I would not feel that something had been taken away? Heck no. A hunting opportunity would have been taken away. That's not a nice thing, but buck hunting is not the reason that I get excited each deer season. I think anytime opportunities are regulated away, something is taken away and lost. Is that a reason to think less of hunting and the opportunities remaining. Not for me. I would still be enthusiastic just as I was when I first started, and looking forward to another season. Does that opinion in any way indicate that I believe that everyone needs to agree with me? .... Not hardly. It is simply my opinion and is a product of my own hunting outlooks and reasons and past experiences. And yes, I would join other hunters in protest to get buck hunting reinstated. But if you actually read the initial question, the answer gets real simple to answer and almost gets down to a simple yes or no answer. And really none of it calls for any hard feelings or attempts to change anyone's mind.

Lol ..... Done!

With all this focus on bucks, I have often wondered if there were as many bucks as does, which would be the hardest to hunt, the buck who periodically loses his mind over sexual matters, leaving behind highly visible signs of his presence, or the wise old doe who has spent months and years looking after herself and bunches of dopey youngsters. It's an interesting question to contemplate. Are those prized bucks worthy of all the high esteem that we place on them or is all their mystique and supposed superior intelligence simply the result of the fact that they are simply "rarer".

We all measure hunting satisfaction in our own personal way. I think what is even more hard to understand is why some refuse to understand that others place a different standard on hunting success. Is it an ego thing? ..... Who knows what is going through people's heads when they define their wants and needs regarding hunting. All I know is that we are all in it for our own personal needs, and the only time anyone should be concerned about such things is when the thinking and attitudes of others are being forced onto the rest of us who don't share those thoughts and attitudes. Then we have an issue of contention.

The question asked for a personal response as to my reaction if bucks were out of the hunting picture. I am simply saying that my hunting was initiated and flourished in practically that very scenario, and my enthusiasm and dedication to deer hunting grew into a lifetime activity in that very atmosphere. There is nothing about TVs and iPads that have altered that enthusiasm. My hunting goals and the satisfaction that I get from deer hunting have not been influenced by whatever technology that has entered into our lives. My hunting needs and satisfactions go much deeper than that. But you are right, each new generation does allow more and more of their hunting satisfactions to be determined by reliance on technology. Other impacts of the very technology you are referring to have persuaded more and more individuals to sit on that couch with their iPad and 55" TVs instead of going outdoors and doing such things as hunting, which is now increasingly regarded as a "waste of good productive time". Does all of that impact the need for others to require antlers and numbers to measure their hunting success and satisfaction? ..... Perhaps. I'm not sure why, but I do know that it has not impacted any of my requirements of the hunt nor added any pressure to measure hunting satisfaction with antlers.

I keep going back to that site and spending a few hours each time. Amazing studies! Thanks for the link.

Wouldn't it be great if we could put ourselves in the dryer for ten minutes; come out wrinkle-free and three sizes smaller! Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet! I don't trip over things, I do random gravity checks! I don't need anger management. I need people to stop pissing me off! Old age is coming at a really bad time! When I was a child I thought Nap Time was a punishment ... now, as a grown up, it just feels like a small vacation! The biggest lie I tell myself is ... "I don't need to write that down, I'll remember it." Lord grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can & the friends to post my bail when I finally snap! I don't have gray hair. I have "wisdom highlights". I'm just very wise. My people skills are just fine. It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work. Teach your daughter how to shoot, because a restraining order is just a piece of paper. If God wanted me to touch my toes, he would've put them on my knees. The kids text me "plz" which is shorter than please. I text back "no" which is shorter than "yes". I'm going to retire and live off of my savings. Not sure what I'll do that second week. I've lost my mind and I'm pretty sure my spouse took it! Even duct tape can't fix stupid ... but it can muffle the sound! Why do I have to press one for English when you're just gonna transfer me to someone I can't understand anyway? Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advice. Oops! Did I roll my eyes out loud? At my age "Getting lucky" means walking into a room and remembering what I came in there for. Chocolate comes from cocoa which is a tree ... that makes it a plant which means ... chocolate is Salad !!!

I can't imagine why the shape of a blind would make any difference. But then who knows? Somehow you have to see it from the deer's perspective. Are your observations based on a significant number of data points. You want to be sure that the coincidence factor is not effecting your conclusions. Who knows? ..... Maybe you have discovered something of importance to ground blind design.

Oh what a disgusting thing it is for me to have to agree with FSW ..... lol. You have no idea how it pains me ....ha-ha-ha. But I don't care if the 2000 acre parcel of high fence had a roof over it. Such a hunt would be completely fair chase as long as the deer didn't come when their names are called or come when a grain pail was rattled. 2000 acres is a huge area and the way deer circle and double back, it would be a huge challenge. Actually, just for fun, I may try to look up a study that I read where enclosed deer successfully eluded a group of experienced hunters in a much, much smaller area.

That's an easy question for me. When I first began bow hunting, that was pretty much the scenario. Not too many of us even talked about harvesting a buck because frankly, they just were way too few and far between. Monday morning conversations at work centered on who actually saw a deer. My gosh back then if anybody even got a shot, they dominated the conversation for the whole morning. And if somebody actually got a deer, there wasn't any of this nonsense about asking what it scored .... lol. Score? .... What's that? It sure was a fun kind of hunting and it really didn't take a lot to get everybody excited. So bucks were out of the picture in a practical sense, and bowhunting was never as exciting and rewarding. Not having trophy bucks behind every tree didn't dampen our spirits any and in fact I think we enjoyed our hunting much more back then.

I went scouting yesterday in the kitchen. I took a glance out the window, under the bird feeder, and spooked a couple of does.....lol. Well, to be serious, I don't take winter scouting very seriously. Most of my needs for patterning deer are aimed at bow season. And what is going on right now has absolutely nothing to do with what will be going on in October or November. In fact, it really has very little to do with what will be going on in early parts of gun season. Food sources are totally different. Bedding areas do not have the cover that they have early in hunting season. In fact what I have found is that as soon as the snow cover becomes somewhat permanent, deer don't even follow their fair-weather trails. They almost seem to go out of there way to ignore those trails. Also the more severe cold weather puts new requirements on the deer who are now into a survival mode. They have new concerns about shelter and protection from winds and other factors that were not necessary when the climate was much different during bow season. What can be determined with winter scouting is some rough gauge of how much of the population may have survived the gun season.

To be honest, I simply don't dare get into cigars. My addiction to smoking had such a hold on me that I went through hell trying to quit. There were so many times that I quit only to eventually falter and have that "one" cigarette and it was instant addiction all over again. I'm afraid that a cigar would have the same effect. The fact is that I still get some pretty powerful urges to run out and grab a cigarette. My best bet is to stay the hell away from any tobacco products. But I will say that back in my smoking days, I quite frequently enjoyed a cigar, and even a pipe as well as the cigarettes.

Lol..... We used to get into cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians as a mainstay of play when I was a youngster. I can't say that it ever affected my psyche, or created a mass murderer. There is a line between play and reality that never really got blurred. Paintball would be a blast if I were a lot younger. I do sense some P.C. indoctrination beginning to take a firm hold on society and being ingrained in even those that are trying to resist.

I absolutely agree, just like I believe that those with marginal deer herds, and without the means to afford leases, or heavily populated deer havens should be punished with over regulation and a raising of the bar in areas where the current bar is already nearly out of reach.

Yeah, we need to figure out a way of screwing up hunting for rabbit, turkey, goose, duck or anything else we hunt by establishing Pope & Young, and Boone & Crockett scoring. Worst thing tat ever happened to deer hunting was when we started to assign numbers as a measurement of success. What a goofy idea. That is when competition between man and beast became competition between hunter and hunter. Kind of began all this in-fighting and crazy antler worship.