Doc

Moving or running? There is a hell of a difference, isn't there?

Generally when asked, I am quick to condemn running shots. That is not saying that they can't be made, but generally more people believe they can than there are those that actually can. A deer running through the woods is challenge enough if they were on a pulley and line, but they are also moving their kill zone up and down at the same time. And they are running between trees at the same time. Now I can be as gullible as the next guy occasionally, but really I lay success at that kind of recklessness more to good luck than good marksmanship.

As I understand it, using buck-shot on running deer has been known to work ....... Just like shooting birds and rabbits. But then that isn't what we are talking here is it? We aren't using buck-shot are we? Perhaps if you were able to successfully knock down flying birds and running rabbits with a single projectile, I might go along with that comparison. And I am sure there a few, very, very, rare individuals that can do that regularly. Good for them.

Yep! In the video, "Bowhunting October Whitetails", I saw the Wentzels doing that. I also noticed that they didn't really do all that well at it either.

There ya go. Wing shooting deer. You've got to get that lead just right (fore and aft and up and down) .... lol. But, what the heck, if you don't get them on the first shot, you still have 4 more in the magazine. That's probably what those 5-shot volleys that I hear every year are all about. Was I supposed to be impressed by hunting "trick-shots"? Sorry, I have no idea how many other times he has been blazing away with entirely different results. Ever wonder how many wounding failures a guy has to go through just to learn how to shoot at running deer? After all, there aren't a whole lot of different ways that you can practice shooting a target that is running full-tilt through the trees and bouncing up and down at the same time, other than just flinging lead until you get the knack of it.

Exactly the same sentiments that an ex-neighbor of ours used to have about deer. How many times did I hear, "Management and population control be damned ..... I like to see the deer"? In fact I have a couple of relatives that feel that way about coyotes. It's the old "doggy-thing". Nothing should be allowed to proliferate in an uncontrolled fashion no matter how "cool" they are.

Yeah, Disney grew a whole bunch of generations of animal rights wackos. I don't think that was his intent, but it all aided the establishment of a lot of these organizations. But of course, there is a whole bunch of social evolution that fueled anti-hunting stuff. Chief among them is the proliferation of people's desires to simply get into your stuff and mess with your life. Some people aren't really all that happy with their life unless they are wagging their finger in your face and telling you how wrong you are conducting your life. I think a lot of anti-hunting zealots are more motivated by that than anything to do with animals.

Oh great! Now the anti-gunners will be coming for our pump shotguns. 4 kills in 9 seconds ..... My gosh, that has to be some kind of assault shotgun.....lol.

Wow! You guys can turn any topic into a flame-fest ..... eh? This thread has taken quite a journey from where it started.

Good luck on getting him. Somebody on here came up with a good idea on one of the other threads. Take an old junk "throw-away" camera and fill it with dog-shit and let them guys steal that ..... lol. Hopefully they will get it all the way home or into their car before they open it up.

I've got a new cam in delivery right now as we speak. I just ordered a replacement for the one I had stolen from me. It should be coming any day now. It's a strange selection that bucks the trend quite a bit, but it is a Cuddeback Attack white-flash camera. The white flash is getting harder and harder to find for obvious reasons, but I am interested in pictures that are a bit more artsy-fartsy for night-time pictures. I'm not just after deer pictures. The one that got stolen took some fantastic pictures, so I wanted it replaced.

Sometimes you just can't beat the situation. I have seen more than a couple videos of deer that dodged arrows and they have a whole variety of things that they do. But mostly they are dropping down and twisting at the same time to turn around. Now anyone who claims they can beat that maneuver must be awful good ..... lol. Most of those that claim that they have, haven't given enough credit to just plain old good luck. The one thing about bow hunting is that there are no absolutes until the deer is dead on the ground at your feet. That's why they call it hunting and not slaughtering. The only thing that I have found that gives me half a chance is to shoot at deer that are kind of relaxed. While that is no guarantee that they will not "jump-the-string", It gives you a fighting chance. I will not shoot at a deer that has got me pegged. I will not give a grunt or other noises to stop a deer. Yes I have seen them successfully do that on TV, but there is nothing I will do purposely to put the deer "on-set". And finally, I will not beat myself up if the deer does go through their acrobatics, trying to turn themselves inside out when I shoot. Bow hunting is not an exact science. We can take a lot of bad things out of the equation, but in the end, there is a lot of luck involved.

You know what would be a perfect hunt? Go out and cut something like a hickory stave. Let it season for a year. Get out your best whittling knife and make a longbow. Make your own arrows. Oh, maybe to give yourself a fighting chance, a few purchased cedar shafts might be acceptable....lol..... or not. Knapp you own stone broadheads and then go out and get a deer (any deer) with your own home-made archery equipment. Man what an accomplishment that would be. My introduction to hunting occurred in almost that same way when I was about 11 years old. Well, it wasn't deer .... lol. But it was pigeons in the barn that I killed with my trusty self-made longbow and fletchless willow arrows. I always had an idea of doing it in a little grander fashion and taking a deer with self-made archery equipment. Never did it, but it sure is a neat idea. Now that would be a perfect deer season.

There's some pretty darn good shooting going on there.

It seems like the amount of hawks and owls have multiplied beyond belief. And yes, there has been a huge change in the some of the small game populations because of it. Hawks are deadly on rabbits, but I also wonder what effects they may have had on pheasants and grouse as well. It's a delicate balance to maintain between predators and prey, and probably can never be done flawlessly. But to give complete and total protection to a whole category of predators has to have some negative impacts somewhere. That is just plain promoting a predator at the cost of several prey species. That's not management.

No matter what the weapon, I would never criticize anyone for practicing with it. I spend a lot of time practicing with my rifle, and that is a deadly thing that pretty much shoots where I point it. Not only that but target practice with a crossbow would probably be fun even if you didn't hunt with it. But yes, a crossbow for small game would be interesting. But would the loss of bolts be a problem? Do they make flu-flu bolts? No seriously, when they start burying under the leaves, or wacking into trees, stones and logs, it seems like it could get a little expensive. How would you get around that problem? It's not like deer hunting where we already are willing to sacrifice one very expensive arrow for one deer. But a day's limit of squirrels? .....

Yeah, I think it is a difference in perspective based on longevity. Any comparisons I make are based on a time span that will reach 70 years in a few days. As described in a few of the replies here by those of advancing age, things have changed in a huge way regarding hunting. Years ago, there were no real animal rights organizations that anyone knew about. Teachers in school never spent a minute worrying about hunting, let alone waging constant campaigns against the activity. Hunting access was never a concern. Movie actors spent their time acting instead of donating money and time to animal rights campaigns. An awful lot of kids in the rural areas regularly ran trap-lines. Hunting was an undisputed way of life for most of us. Even more than that, it was an honorable pastime that people respected, as opposed to the villainous rep and the dirty looks that the activity now gets from the vast majority that do not participate today. Fast forward to today. Hunter numbers are on a down-slide. More and more people are fanatic about their vegan lifestyles to the point of becoming militant about it. I keep reading about home owners actively interfering with hunts, to the point where we had to pass a law prohibiting it. Children are being indoctrinated into anti hunting attitudes by schools and even their parents. The animal rights organizations are proliferating, well financed, and actually making some significant gains with legal victories and an eroding of public acceptance of hunting, trapping and fishing. The problem is that the evolution of anti-hunting cultural changes is happening at a very sneaky slow pace, and it does require a long life span to see the changes. It's a slow culture change. It's kind of like cooking a frog by slowly increasing the heat of the water ... lol. He never knows what is happening until it's too late. When you get the long-term picture, it is obvious that the threat against hunting has made huge advances, and when you really look close enough, it is not slowing, but rather it is accelerating.

There was some pretty good shooting going on in that video.

Pigeons were my very first wild game that I ever hunted. I was about 11 years old when I built my first hickory longbow. I had unfletched willow arrows and actually got pretty good with the thing. So, I would go up in the hay loft of the barn and start shooting these big fat critters. It never seemed to occur to them to leave the barn and they just kept going from one end of the loft to the other, and I got as many shots as I wanted. I came up with two, cleaned them with my pocket knife and handed them to my Mother to cook. she did a little further work on cleaning them and then cooked them up like little chickens .... lol. They were pretty darn good, and I became a hunter. Really ..... that was what started my interest in hunting. I had actually gone out and got my own meal.

I think mostly a "good season" is anytime I can prove to myself that I know what the heck I'm doing out there. That doesn't happen every year ..... lol. Sometimes that can happen during a year when deer are exceptionally scarce. In fact those are the years that really test what you are made of.

Actually, it is the lack of drumming and the lack of flushing those once plentiful critters that prompted my comment. When I was a kid, they seemed to be pretty much everywhere. But today, like Lawdwaz, there is no way I could justify shooting if I did happen to encounter one. I would feel bad if I did kill one. Perhaps there is something unique about our area.

That's a heck of a rig, and the results show it. That look that all raptors have is all about the eyes, and it is a common trait that no other birds seem to share. Actually, it always amazes me how any the stark white critters can keep themselves looking so clean.

So, what has happened to the grouse population? When I was a kid, they used to be very common everywhere. Now they have all but disappeared. Has the habitat really changed all that much? Is there some kind of predator problem? ..... disease? I see the DEC conducts special studies, as though they recognize some kind of problem exists in NYS, but I have never heard any real explanations or theories from them.

Great pictures Dave. What kind of lens and camera do you use for these pictures? Two off-topic questions: How come birds of prey always look so pissed-off? How can a bird that tears apart all kinds of bloody critters for food, always be so absolutely, perfectly white?

All my life I have pondered that age-old question of exactly what does the fox say. And finally this same question that has haunted me for decades is being asked by the best minds of the music industry. I for one am very thankful that it is finally getting the attention that it deserves.