Doc

Does the DEC keep track of the availability of the courses or test sites? Would it do any good to contact them to see if anything is available and when?

There are no "what-ifs" regarding that this is a video that glorifies running shots....... Let's see if we can get to those 35 pages .... lol. We haven't had one of those in a long time.

Well, perhaps some of the language about this video is a bit stronger than I would use, but I definitely agree with some of the general thoughts behind those comments. I am not in favor of posting videos that glorify running shots regardless of whether or not they are successful. I am dead serious about being against running shots regardless of whether it is across a woods or down into the dirt. Running shots in most cases are a safety risk and a serious threat for not putting a deer down in the most humane fashion. It's not something that should be promoted .... in my opinion. The fact that he was shooting into the ground would have been a good point to have stressed in the video itself. I think that there is some level of responsibility that people should exercise when posting these hunting videos. I do wish they would practice a bit of self-restraint. Undoubtedly more than a few hunters have watched that video and have come away star-struck with the idea that hunting is all about knocking down as many deer as possible and as quickly as possible. That I think is the prime argument with the whole video and the reason that it has struck so many people in such a negative way. Let's put it this way .... It's not the kind of video that I would want shown in a hunter safety class.

I am purposely keeping it simple and straight forward. A simple up or down vote on these people to send to them a straight forward message that can't be confused. You vote anti-gun, I'll vote for your opponent. That is why I said that I am a single-issue voter this time around. I know there are other issues that need to be dealt with, but for this particular election, if you voted for the act, I am voting for your opponent. If you voted against it, you get my vote. That is the simple message I want to send and I don't want that confused by any other issues regardless of their merit. It is time that gun owners put the fear of God back into politicians, and we have the single issue to do that with if we can stay focused and on target. We have a unique situation available to us this time around. We have a situation that has unified almost all gun owners and has caused a significant united uprising. I have never seen this magnitude of anger and I don't foresee ever seeing it again. It is an opportunity that if squandered will never be available again. The trick here is to keep the campaign focused, simple and easy for the masses to get behind. That's the best way to maximize the effect of this opportunity. If we begin to head off into independent side directions, or in anyway complicate the message, we lose all benefit of the uniquely united position that we have. A simple, straight forward, focused, voting message is a statement that will last for many generations and make the politicians understand again that gun rights are dangerous to mess with if they value their careers.

I guess the thing that causes such a knee-jerk reaction is the almost hero-worship reaction that some guys had with looking at this video. I do wonder about a video that glamorizes taking these kinds of shots. I can see a lot of guys out there that are saying, "See .... see .... look at that guy. He's making running shots. How come you are always telling me that you should not take running shots"? I have a nephew that would react exactly that way, and he has a track record of wounding losses that nobody wants to even hear about. I suspect that a lot of proponents of shooting running deer are the very ones responsible for those rapid-fire 5-shot volleys that you can hear every year. Fill the air with lead and see what (or who) falls down. So, I do not support that kind of shooting. I am very vocal about it because I really don't want to be even in the same woods as those people. Maybe this guy has gone through enough deer to have developed some kind of wing-shooting gift on deer, I don't know. But the fact is that his video is obviously glorifying a shooting style that damned few people can actually pull off, and I know that the end result is more people in the woods trying to do what he has shown. So if I seem to be a bit disapproving, it's only because I am.

Not everyone advertises their anti-hunting sentiments. I think there are more antis out there than we realize. A little conversation at social gatherings, and you would be surprised at the number of people who really have no use for hunters and hunting.

In case it is escaping anyone's attention, the desired end result of these creeps is the total elimination of legally owned firearms of any sort. It doesn't matter what guns you use or how you use them, no one is escaping the attention of these gun-grabbing antis. Probably their most effective technique is the divide and conquer tactics. You know how it works .... "Oh it's only pistols, they will never come for our long-guns"...... "Oh, it's only those nasty assault rifles. I don't have any of those". As long as we are in a fragmented state and only worried about our own little part of the pie, they will continue to have their successes. So if the trap and skeet shooters think that no one is worrying about their little niche in the world of gun ownership, think again. And yes they too will be swept up in some of this anti-gun frenzy, and maybe they will recognize it or maybe they won't. But this campaign of legal harassment and elimination through cost will eventually hit all owners of guns.

Has he been replaced? If so his successor needs to be grilled a bit on where he/she stands on the SAFE Act. If his position is to be vacant until the next election, you all need to stay on top of it all until you have candidates to interrogate Interview. Examine voting records. Check with whatever gun advocacy organization that you belong to. They usually have done some research on up-coming candidates. If we're losing a pro-gun legislator, we need to be sure that the replacement is pro-gun.

Every year this kind of thing happens. the season ends and with a few days they are wandering around in my yard in broad daylight munching on shrubs ..... lol. Somebody has leaked a copy of the game laws to them.

Well, you are exactly right. I stated very clearly that what I am saying is an opinion. You know, that is what we do on forums .... state opinions. These are my observations, and I have been very clear that that is all they are. Probably as good as anyone's and even yours ..... lol. I never said that you must agree with me. I never said that you have to reply. If you don't agree with my observations and conclusions, that certainly is your right. Have at it ......or not.

We have the voting record pinned on this site: http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/17272-lest-we-forget/

I've got to say that the indications that I am seeing, this season hasn't even put a dent in the population. And I know that a lot of deer were taken in our area. I am in 8N, and I fully expect huge amounts of permits to be issued here next year. I can hardly wait to see the official harvest stats.

Ok, so you have some sort of active rabbit habitat activity going. So that makes your property non typical. Our situation like almost all, takes that variable out of the results. Observations are not tainted by any off-setting actions. As far as the hawk populations being the same, I just have to respectfully disagree. The increase is significant and noticeable. All species are subject to diseases. There is nothing unique to hawks that makes them any more susceptible than any other critter. And so I can see no argument that makes it necessary to give them 100% protection ...... anymore than one could argue that because foxes get mange and distemper and any number of the common diseases that they can contract, they should be afforded 100% protection. It simply doesn't make any sense. Look, I understand the emotional aspects that come to mind when it comes to the hawks, but if management decisions begin to hinge on how we feel about a particular species it probably is not too far out of line to wonder about that policy. Of course it is the federal government that we are talking about, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for something sensible to be done with that issue .... lol.

Somehow, this point has to be sold to the gun-owning public. We need to show these fools that their votes have consequences and impacts on their careers. They need to be punished for their disregard of our rights. For me that election is a one-issue vote. Party doesn't matter. Ideology doesn't matter. No other issue matters. There is just one criteria that determines my vote .... Did they vote for or support that SAFE-Act? And then the same day that I vote, I will be sending them an e-mail explaining why I voted for or against them. If they get the boot, I want them to know exactly what issue cost them their jobs. I want them terrified to ever vote for another anti-gun bill.

Yeah, now that you mention it, they are protected by the feds. Well, that explains the mindless non-management.

As soon as possible, I will be replenishing my reload components, and they can take their background checks (and fees) and shove them. I am starting to understand some of the mentality of these hoarders. It doesn't all have to do with gougers hoarding for resale.

First of all, it is now a cause for celebration when I find a rabbit track anymore. So perhaps it is a local aberration, but one doesn't have to be too observant to see a huge increase in raptors over the past decades, and a distinct scarcity of certain members of their food supply. That has been the situation for several years now. Grouse in our area are all but extinct. I am not blaming that all on raptors, and I do understand the role that other predators are playing in those rabbit scarcities, but I am noting that they are one of the prime predators of those species and unlike any other predators, they are completely protected. We seem to be actively trying to extinguish one class of predator, but are filled with some kind of emotional awe with another. I don't get it. Second, regarding the boom in raptor population, I am assuming that you don't look up too often .... lol. They really are not all that hard to see. Or how about the hawks all perched on the electric wires all along any highway. You haven't noticed them? It really is not all that hard to see a distinct increase in their populations. And why is that? ...... Because they are one of the very few species that receive 100% protection. I am not claiming to have done any sort of scientific biological study or critter-count, just simple observations along with the fact that this class of bird species enjoys 100% total protection and other than the occasional automobile, they seem to be at the top of their food chain with virtually no population controls. They are treated like an endangered species which of course they are not. Also, note that I am not advocating their extinction. I simply see no reason for them not to be controlled like any other species.

I do have some funny looking chunks of pounded-out concrete in my block wall. When I was tournament shooting, I used to practice daily in the basement. I had my release set to a very touchy light pull. While getting it set up, there was a couple of times that I went just a tad too far ....lol. I also have an arrow hole in the casement of the door at the middle of the basement. My brother-in-law thought he would try his hand at this archery stuff .... lol.

Hey, keep us updated on your progress. I think that would be great! You should document the whole procedure all the way through to a successful kill. What a great magazine article that would make.

Ha-ha ... it looks like this thread took a rather lively turn after I got off-line yesterday. Piled on another 2 or 3 pages just over-night ..... lol. Well, I have some preferred methods of hunting too and some that I really don't care for. But I will say that I have spent time doing all of them. I am not afraid to list off the arguments for and against each. It's what's known as an opinion. And yes, most of the reasons are personal and based on what hunting means to me, and the traditions and history that I was raised with. My feelings about shot selection are in the same vein also. There are certain shots that to me do not allow the shooter to pick a lethal spot before pulling the trigger (a criteria that was drummed into my head from the beginnings of my hunting). I am also not bashful about stating those opinions either. That's kind of what we do here, isn't it? And then we are always treated to one of these, "Can't we all just get along" whiney replies that frankly are getting kind of old. This is a forum. Opinions are expressed here. Like any opinions, there is some agreement and there is some disagreement. This does not mean that hunting as an activity is going to cease to exist and come crashing down around our ears. The drama is wonderful but really, let's understand that we all do things differently, and there really is no requirement that just because we are hunters, we all have to trash our beliefs and opinions just to avoid disagreements.

I'm not sure how to assess the balance of nature aspects of management, but I do sincerely believe that the uncontrolled proliferation of raptor populations does have impacts on small game species. Granted, that's a difficult thought to back up numerically, and is based solely on local observations. It could be completely wrong. But I do believe that our impacts on balances in nature do require our interventions in Mother Nature's more natural methods. Actually, that is the primary justification for hunting. It seems inconsistent to allow a certain species to be completely unchecked when they in turn dictate the population levels of other species. So to make management decisions based on the "coolness" of a certain species seems to me to be the wrong criteria. And I sincerely wonder if that doesn't happen more often than we admit. It is just another variation on the "Bambi-ism" syndrome. But, I am afraid that I am driving this thread way off-topic. I just got sidetracked when the subject of raptor control vs. coyote control came up. Sorry about that.

I never was much into drives, but I have participated in a couple. I also remember a lot of people who thought they could hit running deer. Many (most?) of them found out that they couldn't. And then there were the ones that could hit deer but not in lethal areas. We spent most of the rest of the day tracking those. Also, over the years, I have gotten a lot more selective in my shot selection. I tend to take high percentage shots rather than hoping for divine intervention .... lol.

My impression of that shot on the 2nd deer was that the guy was just doing what I call "body-shooting". That is just pointing at the center body crossing your fingers and hoping for something vital to be hit. Not exactly doing what we have all been taught ..... "picking a spot". The good news is that with the deer moving almost straight at him, and being almost straight down, the up and down running motion had no effect on the target. Also, the deer was very close. Still not a shot that I would have taken, but not as crazy as some of the running shots that I have heard people talk of. I think that hit was more good luck than good management since he accidentally paralyzed the deer and managed to anchor it there for a second shot.

When I was a kid, I used to climb the hill and then hike all day without ever seeing a posted sign. That would be like a 6 or 7 hour hike ..... no signs. Nobody cared. Not like that anymore is it?....lol. farmers were obviously more guarded about their fields, pastures, and yards, but when it came to the wooded hillsides, they were just considered excess land that kind of came along with the property but was of little use.

By the way, reviewing the video, I did notice that there was only one (the second one) of the four that were actually seen to be running, and that was the one that he screwed up. The first one was just barely trotting (straight-line). The other two we have no idea what they were doing. If they were standing dead still, it wouldn't be the first time I have seen a group of deer do that after a shot.