Doc

A big deer in NY or anywhere is one of those things that you'll know one when you see one ..... lol. I'm sure it is different to each hunter. For me it doesn't relate to any kind of score. I couldn't tell you anything about the score of any deer even if it was laying on the ground with a tape measure next to it. Fact is, I don't relate to bucks in that way. If I look at a deer and it has a certain massive look to it, that deer is to me a big deer. It doesn't even need to be a buck to impress me as a big deer. However, as far as racks are concerned, there is again just a general impression that registers with me. A rack may be heavy and massive, or have exceptional height or width, or any combination of these things and I'll tell you that my impression was that it was a big deer. Average deer? Do you mean an average that takes in all bucks, including buttons and spikes. If so, I've got to believe that the estimates that I have seen in this thread are all way too high. Either that or if we really do have a overall herd average anywhere near 100 or 130 then we don't really have any need for talk about AR? When you say average, I assume you mean a mathmatical average of all bucks in the area and that would include all those little wee runt yearlings. I think that average is generally going to come out pretty darn low unless you hunt on a game preserve with a whole bunch of trophy monsters to bring the average up a bunch. Come to think about it, how many of us can really offer much of a credible guess. I mean it's not like we have the ability to herd all the deer together and make a real honest guess.....lol. Doc

I read something once that said that all deer carry the gene for white coloration or the mottled brown and white condition of being a piebald. However the gene is highly recessive. I never heard what it is that brings that gene into dominance in some individual deer. Doc

Well, they already got your money. No need in trying to impress you now with good service ...... lol. But seriously, with all the hype about budgets and personel lay-offs and the sad shape of the conservation fund, I won't rest easy until the thing is right here in my hand. Doc

There have been so many. My first buck with a bow ranks right up there. Then there was the huge buck last year that was working me over for about 15 minutes, playing games all that time with starting to come into my shooting lane and then stepping back. Over and over he did this. He was a monster too. By the time he got done messing with me, I'm not sure I could have pulled off the shot or not. Didn't matter because he finally left without offering a shot. Then there was the doe that I could have stabbed with my arrow. She came off the trail and headed straight for the huge oak that I was standing behind. Why? ...... I haven't a clue. but she wound up on the opposite side of the tree, walking a circle around the tree while I was circling the tree on the opposite side trying to stay hidden. That was kind of a funny scenario. Finally she came to my camp stool that I had been sitting on and bolted out away from the tree about 15 yards and stood there broad-side. I had already drawn my bow before, so I just put the pin on and let go. I got her. That was some pretty exciting stuff. I always get excited when I get deer within touching distance, buck or doe. Then there was another nice buck that gave me plenty of excitement. He came in at 30 yards and stood right in one of my shooting lanes, so I took the shot. Apparently there was a twig that I hadn't removed in the lane, and I saw the arrow do a bit of a dance along the way and it ricocheted right away from what was going to be a perfect shot and flew way off to the right, He took off and was out of sight right away. Leaves were still on so he was out of sight in the blink of an eye. So after blowing such an easy shot, I threw my little tantrum and went back to hunting getting madder by the minute at blown opportunity. I only lasted about another 1/2 hour because I was so darned disgusted. So I went out to get my arrow and head home. I picked up the arrow and saw blood an hair on the entire length of the arrow. "What the ....?" I actually stood there staring at the thing in disbelief trying to figure out where the heck the blood came from. That's when a movement out of the corner of my eye caught my attention. At 15 yards, I saw a buck head rise up out of a small patch of cover and then go back down. That was when I realized that I was looking at the buck that I had shot at. Well, thinks got a little crazy there as I fumbled with another arrow trying to get it on the bow. I was shaking like a leaf. I stepped to the side where I saw a clear shot to his vitals as he layed there with his chin resting on the ground. By this time I was completely out of control and clean missed him completely at just 15 yards. That was enough for him to struggle to his feet and he stumbled and staggered, wobbling from side to side like a drunk, over the knoll and out of sight. I went over where he had been laying (for about 1/2 hour) and there was a huge nasty clotted pile of blood. I took off after him and found him about 50 yards away stone dead. The arrow deflected alright, but what I couldn't see was that instead of hitting the heart-lung area, it clipped it's way through his neck. With that kind of wound which obviously hit a major vein, I have no clue how he lasted 1/2 hour and then still had the strength to get up and run another 50 yards. The "most exciting moment" was when I was trying to get that 2nd arrow into him at 15 yards. I was totally out of control. So with those hunts and many more crazy things that have happened over the years, how do you pick out the one that provided the most exciting moment ..... Ha-ha. Doc

During the regular firearms season, I have a total orange suit that I wear. During muzzleloader season, I usually am not out in the woods but if I were, I would be wearing orange. I do not wear orange during bow season. That is a decision that I am actually starting to think about a bit. There is a portion of bowseason that overlaps turkey season. There is also a fairly active small game season in progress too. Depending on what other things are thrown into bow season in the future, I may decide that I should be wearing some blaze orange during bow season too. Doc

Back in 1969, I bought a brand new 12 guage Ithaca Deerslayer. That's all I have used since. I have no idea just how many deer I have taken with that thing, but the venison would probably be measured in tons. Nothing special about the gun ........ just adequate. Doc

Mostly listen to late 50's and early 60's R&R oldies. Also into country Older songs more than newer songs). Also have a small collection of classical CDs for when I'm in the mood for that. Big surprise ...... I have been listening to a little bit of today's rock. I even went out and bought an Adam Lambert album (must be going through my second childhood). Actually, I think I just like to drive my wife crazy with it ..... lol. Doc

This time of year, the big-mommas are having their fawns. Last year's fawns are now kicked out on their own for a while ........ first time in their lives. They seem to be running around without a clue and some of them get whacked. I think some of those old goats get whacked because they are trying to keep up with their fawns which don't know what the heck is going on yet. The other day, I was coming down our driveway and a doe and fawn took off. The doe was following the fawn which was heading right for the highway. Sure enough, the fawn ran right across the road with the doe right after it. Fortunately there were no cars coming ...... this time. Doc

So, how exactly do you know when the scent works? How do you know that a deer wsn't going to come along that trail anyway. Has anyone figured out a good way to prove whether a scent has worked or not? I'm probably getting a bit cynical in my old-age, but I keep getting a picture of old Tink Nathan standing there with a beer in one hand, next to a whole bunch of scent bottles ready for packaging, with a big grin on his face filling up another bottle for sale......lol. Doc

DMP's are easy. I just go went down to the Town Clerk, showed her my lifetime license and she jumped on the computer and got me my permits. I imagine there is probably a computer way of doing it too. However, last year was my first year with the lifetime license and I didn't get my stuff at the normal time with everybody else. So I am real interested in what date I should start getting a little excited if I don't get it. I'm always a bit nervous about these things when I'm dealing with a govenment agency ....... especially with all the budget nonsense going on. Doc

I suppose it should be mentioned that if you are gripping the bow and it is working for you ...... don't mess with success. I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for messing up anyone's shooting. Yes, I can parrot what all the books and magazine articles over the past 45 years have said, but I also realize that there are a lot of people who shoot extremely well in some rather unorthodox ways. That old saying about "If it ain't broke don't fix it" probably applies here. Doc

I can sit and watch almost any hunting show, but when it comes to those Texas box-blind shows, I turn them off immediately. They can do whatever they want to do, but I don't have to watch it. It kind of reminds me of some kind of slaughterhouse technique. I'm not sure I can even classify it as "hunting". It is definitely shooting and not a whole lot more. I guess I don't have much of a problem with the style of blind, but that semi domesticated herd of deer that they have baited in and milling around the like cattle, really doesn't remind me much of any kind of hunting that I want to be associated with. Doc

Is anybody else noticing a huge increase in road-killed deer this year. I realize that the road-kill goes up around fawning season, but even considering that, it seems that the over all numbers of dead deer along the highway are way up from any year I have seen previously. We just might be looking at a bumper crop of deer this year. Doc

Let 'er rip ......... no bottle for me. Frankly I have not had a time where I even suspected that a deer was spooked by it. I have seen this argued back and forth on forums and, there are as many opinions one way as the other. I have read articles that claim that chemically there is no difference between human urine and deer urine. Also, I have heard of people "freshening up a scrape" with their own urine and having bucks come in and start tearing the scrape up. The other side of the coin is that if you consider just how sensitive a deer's nose is, how could they not know the difference? These are animals that can tell the breeding readiness of a doe simply by smelling the urine. They even identify each other with the urine smell. That is why the argument goes on forever and ever in forums. Good points to each side of the discussion. I am just too lazy to carry an empty bottle in and the full bottle out, and run the risk of it all coming apart in my pack .....lol. Plus I would never remember it anyway. Doc

Be careful on how well you fix this problem. Bow manufacturers have worked diligently over the years to make the bow grips as skinny as possible. The reason? ........ to help eliminate hand torque on the bow. While there are no absolutes when it comes to bow shooting, most of what I have read on proper hand grip discourages actually "gripping" the handle. The bow grip should actually be just a "cradleing" rather than an actual grip. That's what they recommend anyway. Of course we all know that all the proper text-book recommendations don't always work for everybody. There are many materials that could be used to increase the grip size. Several layers of some sort of camoflage tape is the first thing that comes to mind. I have also seen people playing with auto body filler to customize their bow grip area. Doc

I agree. That isn't really hunting at all. But I guess it apparently doesn't matter to some "hunters". Doc

Yeah, I think that was the name of the show. As I recall from past shows they cover all kinds of game and land management, not just deer. Next time I see it, I will jot down the particulars. Doc

Ok guys. Send your letters, bad-mouth the NYB, and do whatever it is that you are trying to do to the sport of bowhunting. It really doesn't matter. Neither one of you has the convictions to put your money where your mouth is. You are both outside the only organizations that could make a difference with no real dedication to your cause, so your credibility and dedication are suffering badly and your impact one way or the other is severely compromised. That's actually a good thing. It's been a fun discussion, but from my perspective, it is obviously a total waste of time. Doc

And you worry about the NYB bending the truth a bit ..... lol. Oh that's right it must be true ... it's in the paper ....right? Tell me, what is the membership of the NYS Crossbow Assn.? Lots of luck finding that number. Good luck even finding their web-site. Yes, honest, there really is one ........ Haven't you joined yet? So when people say this whole thing is a x-bow manufacturer's campaign here in NY, I think they are probably right. It's certainly not a grass-roots activity from hunters. Doc

Yamaha Kodiak ........ no longer trail ride since a CO told me I couldn't ride across state land a bunch of years ago (Nice of him to simply issue a warning). So now I just use it to plow snow off my 1000' driveway, and to get me up and down our "killer hill" behind the house. I generally drive up and park just under the rim of the hill and then I still have enough poop left to start walking. I'm not really an ATV enthusiast. I have one strictly as an implement to do work and as a conveyance up and down the hill. As often as I actually use it, the thing will last forever. Doc

Most state land is off-limits to motorized vehicles. Don't make any assumptions relative to this and always check before you ride. I'm not sure what the penalty is for riding an ATV on legally restricted state land, but I'll bet it can get pretty nasty, especially if a CO can find one little piece of evidence of ground damage. I wouldn't risk it. With my luck, they would be just looking for someone to make an example of ...... Ha-ha. I'm not sure about the registration laws if the vehicle stays on your own property. I have not read the law relative to that. Doc

I love venison liver! However, isn't there some warnings about eating animal organs (liver, kidneys, heart etc.) ...... cholesterol concerns I believe. It doesn't stop me. I kind of doubt that eating one or 2 deer livers per year is going to clog up my arteries too much ..... lol. Doc

Actually there's not a whole lot of difference between that and some of the bowhunters here who side with the antihunters in trying to discourage bowhunter organizations. But anyway, just keep in mind that your post kind of reminds the crossbow opposition to start writing too. I just thought I would remind you of that fact. Just to make you feel a bit better about it all, I really didn't need your reminder. My letters have been out there for a while. But anyway, I'm sure that your fellow members in the NYS Crossbow Assn are all writing their letters too aren't they? What's that ....... you aren't a member? ...... lol. What do you mean you can't find any members of that organization. Doc

There was a management show on this morning (on outdoor channel). I think it's a regular. But don't ask me the name of it ..... I've got a real good memory but it's a little short. How about they spend a bit more time on scouting. You know there are a lot of newcomers who maybe could use some fundamentals. Also there's a lot of us old-timers that could use a few reminders of the fundamentals too even though we don't want to admit it. Some day it would be nice if somebody spent their half hour on TV going over some of the finer points of tracking (both wounded and unwounded) critters. I'm just thinking that not everything has to be the same old tired stuff of hunter sits in stand ...... deer shows up ....... hunter shoots deer ........ hand-shakes and back slapping all around. That was nice the first 600 times I saw it, but after a while it become pretty predictiable and boring. What's wrong with a bit of real basic instruction. I havent seen any of that since the Wentzels put out their video "Bowhunting October Whitetails" or whatever the name of it was. That was back in the 70's or real early 80's I believe, and I don't think there has been another one like it since. Also, not everything has to be about whitetails. I would like to see more wilderness hunts that show a bit about camp life and show more of some of that northwest scenery that I and a bunch of others are unlikely to ever be able to experience. I really love some of those western moose, sheep, g-bear and goat hunts. I realize these aren't cheap hunts to video for profit, but a few more of these here and there would break up some of the monotony. Yes, there is a whole lot more these guys could do with their hunting shows that would vary things up a bit and remove some of that boredom that creeps in every so often with the constant repetition of existing hunting storylines and content. A little creativity in programing wouldn't exactly hurt any, would it? Doc

I wouldn't have any problems with limiting hunters to one antlered deer per year. That would do a few things. Most hunters would try to make sure that that their one buck was as good a one as they figured they could get. That would become a defacto voluntary AR where hunters would be motivated to pass on some bucks in hopes of getting a larger one. It's a limit that could be put on any area regardless of deer density, without causing anyone any real hardship. Also it might eliminate some of massive buck slaughters that occur with some of the larger and more effective drives. It would also help in sharing a resource that is smaller than the number of hunters and would actually amount to more hunters having a possibility of succeeding at harvesting a buck without actually increasing the buck take. That sounds like a winner for just about everyone. Such a limit would also improve the doe take. Without the option of shooting more than one buck hunters would be more likely to fill antlerless permits. That may not make all hunters in all areas happy, but would help the DEC with their management goals. Frankly I think the idea has more positives than negatives. Doc