Meat Hunter

You should send that to the Department of Tourism and to the Governor and ask that

Steve fair point but the % of the 3.5year old in the harvest confirms the sucess. Pre AR 14% 3.5 year olds and post AR 36% 3.5 year olds in the harvest.

From DEC Thanks for writing me to ask for clarification concerning the Department's deer hunting regulations. I realize that there is a lot of confusion concerning the youth hunt (firearms) for deer. I hope that the following somewhat detailed explanation will help to set the record straight. As you know, DEC adopted final regulations on deer hunting on July 11, 2012. This culminated a long process that started with public meetings on deer management that were held in the fall and early winter of 2009. We hosted 20 public meetings that reached over 1,000 hunters and other stakeholders. Following that process, we conducted a scientific survey of deer hunters to evaluate their attitudes towards various aspects of deer hunting, including a youth hunt. In that survey (done by Cornell University), we learned that a majority of hunters support a youth hunt. DEC's wildlife biologists and wildlife managers subsequently drafted a statewide deer management plan that addressed a variety of important subjects including the all-important need to recruit and retain hunters. Specifically, we identified as a key objective a strategy to "Incorporate a firearms deer hunting opportunity for youth in all portions of New York where hunting deer with firearms is allowed." As you recall, our draft plan was made available for extensive public review. While it is clear that New York deer hunters support the concept of a youth hunt for deer, they did not reach an overwhelming consensus on exactly WHEN that hunt should occur. So, to help DEC managers and policy-makers determine the best course of action in selecting those dates, we asked those persons most directly concerned--young people and their mentors. Thus, we conducted a second scientific survey and we learned that Columbus Day weekend is the most preferred time for New York's youth hunt. Consequently, we made that proposal in the rule-making referenced above. When we adopted the regulatory changes on July 11, 2012, DEC indeed adopted a youth hunt with firearms on Columbus Day weekend. We provided an assessment of public comment to the rule-making, including addressing input received on the proposed youth hunt. See: http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerregapc2012.pdf. Note in particular this part of the assessment--"A special youth deer hunt will provide interested junior hunters a special opportunity to hunt deer under the mentoring and supervision of an experienced adult without competition from adult firearms hunters. This is believed to be an important factor for recruiting new hunters, which is essential for the future of deer management. DEC also agrees with hunters in supporting legislative efforts to reduce the minimum age for big game hunting with a firearm from 14 to 12 years of age, and we believe this would be a valuable enhancement to DEC's current efforts, giving more youth hunters more opportunity to participate in the youth firearms deer season." I should note, because it is important: If we had "pulled" the youth hunt out of our regulatory proposal in July, we would have been required to put the entire proposal out for public comment for an additional 30 days. The rule-making process is governed by state law, and any major change to a proposal requires an additional public comment period. This would have complicated our ability to have ANY of the new regulations described in the Hunting Guide (e.g., the October 1st opener for bowhunting), and that would have caused mass confusion among our hunting community. So, we decided it would serve the public best by adopting the original regulatory proposal intact (including the youth hunt). As you know, however, nearly at the same time as we were wrapping up the rule-making process, the Legislature passed a bill, A. 10583-A/S. 7705-A, that would remove DEC's authority to establish such a youth hunt as proposed (with firearms). As of this writing, it remains uncertain whether that legislation will become law. In the event that A. 10583-A/S. 7705-A becomes law, DEC will need to amend the regulations to ensure that all of our regulations are in alignment with current laws. We would need to amend the portion of our regulation dealing with youth hunts, leaving everything else intact (e.g., the changes in opening date for bowhunting and the expansion of antler restrictions.) In the event that this legislation does not become law, our regulations and the youth hunt on Colulmbus Day weekend in 2012 will take place as planned. I expect that we will know one way or another in the coming weeks. And, to make this just a bit more complicated, while we were finalizing the regulations and while the Legislature was considering bills at the end of the Session, we were working hard on finalizing our annual Hunting Guide. Because of the uncertainty about the youth hunt, we did not include this in the Guide. Instead, the Guide will state "to be announced" at a future date, in reference to the youth hunt. If indeed the youth hunt goes forward, we will publicize it via news release and on the DEC website. We fully expect that it will receive very wide attention among our hunting community, and this will enable adult mentors and young people to begin planning their youth hunt on Columbus Day weekend. I, for one, certainly hope that New York youngsters can enjoy this benefit and get "hooked on hunting" at an early age. I have watched with great envy the success of youth hunts in other states, and I hope we can bring the same benefit to New Yorkers. After all, they are our future.

From Catskill Mountain News: Mandatory antler restrictions a boon to hunters and economy in Community News By Brian Sweeney Restrictions on antler sizes will be expanded to the Catskills during the 2012 white-tailed deer hunting season, the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation has announced. The Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) unveiled a number of changes of last week as part of its Five-Year Deer Management Plan. The DEC will extend mandatory Yearling Buck Protection with Antler Restrictions (a minimum of three points on one side) into Wildlife Management Units 3A, 4G, 4O, 4P, 4R, 4S and 4W — located in Sullivan, Ulster, Delaware, Greene and Schoharie counties — as called for in the Deer Management Plan. This change, which was previously in effect in other parts of the state, is designed to ensure the long-term health of the deer population. “The DEC is working to develop a systematic and objective process to guide future decisions regarding antler restrictions or other buck harvest strategies to best satisfy the desires of New York deer hunters and stakeholders,” officials said, explaining the strategy. Old rules hurt herd Under previous guidelines, allowing the harvest of bucks with a minimum of one three-inch antler resulted in most bucks in NY being taken as immature juveniles before they can reach adulthood, according to the DEC. The new rules allow the DEC to market to hunters the promise of a plentiful supply of adult bucks. In a study by Cornell Surveys, commissioned by the DEC, data showed that most hunters in New York favor greater restrictions on antler sizes. A number of representatives of sportsmen’s groups praised the DEC for expanding the Antler Restrictions (AR). Joe Montalbano, from Ulster County, remarked, “We have really seen excellent results in our area. It used to be that a fork horn was the normal buck but now with antler restrictions the new normal buck is an eight-pointer.” Change of heart He added,”I have to admit when Antler Restrictions were proposed in 2004 I strongly opposed them at our federation meetings. To anyone who is opposed to it now, I would say, ‘Go for it 100 percent — it really works!’ Our club, Marbletown Sportsmen, for the first time in its 62-year history has harvested an 11-point buck and other clubs are having the same success.” Delaware County Economic Development spokesman Bill Willis praised the new AR, Boost to business “Most deer hunters are dissatisfied with their buck hunting and this is clearly shown in the fact that New York is losing two hunters for every new hunter recruited. This will have large economic impacts to the state. New York deer hunters contribute over $700 million to the economy.” Jay Martin, Big Game Chairman of the Federated Sportsmen’s Clubs of Ulster County, was also enthusiastic about the expansion of AR. “Protecting yearling bucks results in a large increase in the age of the bucks harvested. For example 3.5-year-old buck harvest is up 258 percent in the AR areas of Ulster and Sullivan counties. Both Ulster and Sullivan counties have harvested the biggest bucks since the late 1920s in the AR areas and the overall buck take is up 5.7 percent over the pre-AR harvest. Dick Henry, a recently retired New York DEC biologist, said the Yearling Buck Protection program is having an enormous impact on the state’s deer herd. “I have never seen a single white-tailed deer management program that has invigorated and excited hunters more. Hunters in the current AR areas are hunting a deer herd that many generations of NY hunters have never experienced,” he stated enthusiastically. In other news, the state will also adjust bear hunting seasons to remain concurrent with deer seasons. DEC’s wildlife personnel believe that retaining a consistent season structure for big game hunting is currently preferable. It was noted, however, that future bear management might necessitate deviation from this approach. from issue dated 07/17/2012

Did the person you signed the DMP tag over to have any luck filling it?

Found this on a website: From Catskill Mountain News: Mandatory antler restrictions a boon to hunters and economy in Community News By Brian Sweeney Restrictions on antler sizes will be expanded to the Catskills during the 2012 white-tailed deer hunting season, the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation has announced. The Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) unveiled a number of changes of last week as part of its Five-Year Deer Management Plan. The DEC will extend mandatory Yearling Buck Protection with Antler Restrictions (a minimum of three points on one side) into Wildlife Management Units 3A, 4G, 4O, 4P, 4R, 4S and 4W — located in Sullivan, Ulster, Delaware, Greene and Schoharie counties — as called for in the Deer Management Plan. This change, which was previously in effect in other parts of the state, is designed to ensure the long-term health of the deer population. “The DEC is working to develop a systematic and objective process to guide future decisions regarding antler restrictions or other buck harvest strategies to best satisfy the desires of New York deer hunters and stakeholders,” officials said, explaining the strategy. Old rules hurt herd Under previous guidelines, allowing the harvest of bucks with a minimum of one three-inch antler resulted in most bucks in NY being taken as immature juveniles before they can reach adulthood, according to the DEC. The new rules allow the DEC to market to hunters the promise of a plentiful supply of adult bucks. In a study by Cornell Surveys, commissioned by the DEC, data showed that most hunters in New York favor greater restrictions on antler sizes. A number of representatives of sportsmen’s groups praised the DEC for expanding the Antler Restrictions (AR). Joe Montalbano, from Ulster County, remarked, “We have really seen excellent results in our area. It used to be that a fork horn was the normal buck but now with antler restrictions the new normal buck is an eight-pointer.” Change of heart He added,”I have to admit when Antler Restrictions were proposed in 2004 I strongly opposed them at our federation meetings. To anyone who is opposed to it now, I would say, ‘Go for it 100 percent — it really works!’ Our club, Marbletown Sportsmen, for the first time in its 62-year history has harvested an 11-point buck and other clubs are having the same success.” Delaware County Economic Development spokesman Bill Willis praised the new AR, Boost to business “Most deer hunters are dissatisfied with their buck hunting and this is clearly shown in the fact that New York is losing two hunters for every new hunter recruited. This will have large economic impacts to the state. New York deer hunters contribute over $700 million to the economy.” Jay Martin, Big Game Chairman of the Federated Sportsmen’s Clubs of Ulster County, was also enthusiastic about the expansion of AR. “Protecting yearling bucks results in a large increase in the age of the bucks harvested. For example 3.5-year-old buck harvest is up 258 percent in the AR areas of Ulster and Sullivan counties. Both Ulster and Sullivan counties have harvested the biggest bucks since the late 1920s in the AR areas and the overall buck take is up 5.7 percent over the pre-AR harvest. Dick Henry, a recently retired New York DEC biologist, said the Yearling Buck Protection program is having an enormous impact on the state’s deer herd. “I have never seen a single white-tailed deer management program that has invigorated and excited hunters more. Hunters in the current AR areas are hunting a deer herd that many generations of NY hunters have never experienced,” he stated enthusiastically. In other news, the state will also adjust bear hunting seasons to remain concurrent with deer seasons. DEC’s wildlife personnel believe that retaining a consistent season structure for big game hunting is currently preferable. It was noted, however, that future bear management might necessitate deviation from this approach. from issue dated 07/17/2012

Absolutely right!

The key is getting acurate percentage for "success rate " by getting reporting rates right.

good article http://www.eveningtribune.com/topstories/x1249727649/Are-antler-restrictions-the-wave-of-the-future-in-NYS

here is a good artcle http://www.eveningtribune.com/topstories/x1249727649/Are-antler-restrictions-the-wave-of-the-future-in-NYS

What I said was that we do not know the reporting rate of transfered DMPs but that is makes sense that it is less. And that in some areas there is a problem with the miss use of DMPs in the wrong area. Once again we do not know how bad it is but there is no reason to have 30,000 extra tags out there that can end up in the wrong place.

First 3 points on one side is not correct to protect the majority of yearling bucks in 8M. The standard should be 4 points or better a spread. Second it is a park rule and not a DEC regulation or Law. So I am unclear as to the compliance. The size of the park is important variable in success.

DEC biologists are doing the aging from deer checks. Aging Fawns to 3.5 year olds are easy if you’re trained and can be done from 4.5 up by those that are experienced.

First my only issue was that the reporting rate is much lower for tags that are transferred which make it much harder to determine if the correct number of does are being harvested. Remember there is a target harvest and an issue number for of tags much higher to meet that harvest. Also there is no control study on the reporting rate of transfer tags. If you are in an area of a million deer you probably do not give much thought to this issue but in areas with fewer deer and limited doe tags this kind of over harvest is a problem. Now back to my original point, if hunters are generally not good at reporting the deer they harvest on their own tags we can expect that they will have a lower reporting rate on a tag that was given them by someone else. Now as to this: "They are allocated by WMU and can only be used in that WMU" You’re a funny guy! They can and are used wherever someone feels like it. Yes that is illegal but very common. Some folks just do not know any better, some cannot read the tiny number and letters on the tag (our hunters are old) and others do not care. The sales agents encourage people to apply for DMPs where they will get them and not where they actually hunt which creates a problem to start. For example in WMU 3M, 38,000 tags are issued to harvest only 3000-4000 deer in an area with no access. So there are over 30,000 tags that go ...who knows where. This unit has many units to the north where the deer numbers are low and DMPs very limited. Having a lot of hunters with these tags for 3M but no access to hunt in 3M hunting in the northern units with limited DMPs and the wrong tag in their pocket is a problem. The DEC ECO and Biologist have talked about this at many meetings.

WHAT WMU and county is Letchworth?

I am excited about AR being expanded. Attached is a report that is a generated from DEC data. Look at the harvest charts. http://www.nyswmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ARBooklet.pdf http://www.nyswmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/YBP-AR-Evaluation-in-NY-June-2011.pdf

This doe tag transfer is a bad Idea and makes it very hard to know how many does are harvested and in areas with lower numbers can result in over harvest. If people do not report their own tags how likely are they to report a tag someone else gave them?

We always hear about this filling the freezer and I need the meat but the surveys show that only 22% of the hunters said that meat was the most important reason for hunting which makes sense since so few hunters get a buck yet still go hunting.

well said

Yes your in a good spot as acess is hard to get and there is so much housing for the deer to hide in where you can not hunt. However a lot of folks kill yearling bucks in that area aswell

They already have your DNA and know everything you do I guess they may not have the fingerprints but easy enough to get since they know where you are. Yup all forms are designed to be full employment acts for Accountants Lawyers ....

Yes teeth work to age deer for fawns, a range of yearling bucks 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 months old, for 2.5 and 3.5 pure science. The older ages require experience and is somewhat of an art form but reliable. It is based on type and number of teeth in the yearlings and below. It is tooth wear for the older deer.

I do not think anyone would argue that NY has a few adult/ big bucks. But it’s just a few. What are there 100-200 pictures in the ODN each year? And that is the point we have the potential to have tons of big adults but as the result of a law from 1911 we do not. Let’s look at the numbers. In 2010 106,960 bucks were harvested statewide of which 58,828 were yearlings. Would you prefer to have 58,828 adults to harvest? Then 29,735 2.5 year olds were harvested and 15,295 3.5 year olds were harvested. Those are the statewide numbers. Let’s now see what would happen to the harvest statewide, if an antler restriction was in place with the same effectiveness in protecting yearling bucks as in the current AR areas in Ulster and Sullivan Counties. In the units that have mandatory antler restrictions in NY 15% of the harvest were yearlings, 49% 2.5 year olds and 36% 3.5 year olds. So applying these percentages to the state harvest we get only 16,044 yearlings harvested, 52,410 2.5 year old harvested and 38,506 3.5 year olds harvested. Age at Harvest Statewide Hypothetical AR Gain/ Loss Yearling 1.5 58,828 16,044 -42,784 2.5 Year Old 29,735 52,410 +22,675 3.5 Year Old 15,295 38,506 +23,211 2.5 &3.5 together 45,030 90,916 +45,886 202% increase So what we do not shoot as yearlings we more than make up for as 2.5 and 3.5 year old harvest. And there will be some over 3.5 year old out there too. This is all just common sense. It is just moving the harvest to Adults. I still think it is strange that people get all worked up over it. It is easy to do. The only big deal is the improvement in hunting! And we are far superior stewards when we have a herd with natural buck behavior and breeding that can only take place with adults in the herd.

You hit the nail on the head. Good ol days. In 1911 before the science of wildlife management was invented someone arbitrarily decided that a legal buck would be one with one 3 inch spike. Old time thinking at a time when hunting had removed deer from the landscape in NY and when the whole state had been clear cut and when hunters hunted with open sites and shotguns. Now we harvest does and have become so affective at killing bucks that most do not reach adulthood. It is not about the hunter killing a deer; it is about doing what is best for the deer and as a result having the best hunting and deer viewing experience. Funny fact, only 15% of the hunters kill a buck. 85% do not kill a buck. It is very evident that killing a buck is not the driving reason for hunting. The number one hunter satisfaction is seeing deer. I actually eat deer, about 99% of all the meat I eat is venison but I still look to harvest less deer where they are in recovery and more in areas of over abundance and since I only get one buck tag to fill during gun season I try to harvest the biggest buck. It’s all fun. It is not about being able to kill every deer we see. In fact, if you do not have a doe tag then you cannot shoot a doe. No one thinks that is abnormal but for some reason if you can not kill every buck it a huge deal. See good ol days- kill all the bucks never kill a doe. That is just not the way it is anymore. Now we kill 50% Antlerless and 50% Antlered (mostly immature bucks). There is no biological justification for removing any yearling bucks let alone most. BTW you should go out to Western NY they have 10 times the number of deer that you have where you hunt. BTW where is that? I will go with you.