mt624

I guess everyone takes away something different. I didn't get a sense that the op or mm were bragging or trying to prove anything. I agree there are people like that though, and I don't like it. Sure would be nice to know who they are. I'm not on this forum enough to get the gist about anyone so maybe I'm missing something based on history here. But reading some of the replies, I have to wonder if some on here have read the entire thread based on their comments, and if their egos are the type that they're just commenting looking for a fight? Hillbilly, if you're serious, start a thread or even a poll if you can do that on here.

Belo hasn't per one of his posts in here. That is very rare and lucky. He's about the only guy I know of. As for the op, meat manager and myself, I don't think any one of us tried to shift blame away from ourselves. You shoot, you're responsible. Period. I will say it again, I don't like seeing this type of post but it allows us to learn from others. Do we really need to keep score? Is this some sort of competition now? in this day and age of technology and information sharing, I don't expect people to "keep their mouths shut." At least not on an internet forum. If this is upsetting, don't read it. Just my opinion of course...

Hate seeing posts like this but it happens. Of course it's possible to hit "between the spine and lungs" meaning you probably hit a little of one or both if that's where the arrow went. Highly unlikely to impossible you went clean through without hitting something, especially if you were in a stand. But from what you posted I think the deer will likely survive. Stuff like this is why I'm a 1 pin 20 yard or under hunter, but I have wounded deer for other reasons working within those limits so I'm not judging. Just hopefully learn from it. A couple thoughts; strange it wasn't a pass through with arrow completely coming out if you hit where you say you did, so I would look at your setup and KE, but maybe you hit some bone. Pretty typical of a high back hit, blood runs down sides for a while, somewhat absorbed by the fur then eventually it's saturated and starts leaving a trail of good drops. When it rubs against something it looks like a lot of blood. I hit a doe in the area you described years ago and had a similar type blood trail for a few hundred yards. Saw her a week later alive and well. Ok maybe walking a little stiffer than before. This is how we learn...

We've enjoyed this one for the past 13 seasons or so.

Those look like the ones I got from Deer Search

I've gotten similar laminated hair samples from Deer Search when you make a $20 donation. I carry one with me and have one in my barn for guests/backup.

I reread his first post and again like the first time I find nothing that would make me think it was dead, or anything he said to imply that.

That's the thing about internet forums, people type things they most likely wouldn't say to someone's face. And often, like in this case, they jump to all sorts of conclusions and make assumptions in their follow up posts. Spins things way off topic. As a landowner, I have had people tell me they were tracking wounded deer onto my posted property when they were not. So again, the actions of a minority "ruin it" for everyone else. Now I won't let anyone on my property without me being there. It's very simple. Wheelieman, thanks for posting all the follow up info.

Regardless of whether or not the dogs are chasing deer, I would not want them where I am hunting. I'm dealing with a similar issue with neighbors now and simply do not want them or their scent anywhere on my hunting property.

Along with other factors like doe to buck ratio, habitat, etc.

QDM is more about age structure and letting deer mature before harvesting vs genetics which we really can't manage.

Culling was the topic last year and thoroughly discussed already. This is a deer I shot this season and my neighbor (not the original poster) provided me with these more recent trail cam pics. I just wanted to post follow up pictures to show how the deer looked after another year of growth.

And same deer this year?

So what do you think, same deer from last year out of velvet?

170 acres of land? Tractor would be a no brainer to me if you're there with any regularity. UTV or quad I could get by without, but I consider my tractor mandatory. If you're a hands on type at all, you will want one. And with all due respect, I have to disagree on the negative hydorstatic comments. I started with a Ford 850 (similar to jubilee or N series just slightly bigger) then picked up a John Deere 3010 (older ag type tractor in 60hp range) both gear, and now have a Kubota L5740HST-C that's hydro. I used the 5740 for work then bought it when the company lease was up. Obviously due to age differences there's no comparison in other areas to my older tractors, but I've got time on lots of newer gear tractors too and had no problem going with the hydro after running it for the first few hundred hours. I've put about 350 hours on the Kubota total, 85-90% of that is dragging relatively heavy impliments through the ground all over the northeast. The other 10-15% is mowing time. And the hydrostatic shines for mowing! If you talk to the mechanics, I've found very few who have had any transmission issues on the hydrostatic tractors. It depends on if you're going new or used, hp requirements, etc. but don't rule out the newer hydros, they are mostly bullet proof. Nothing wrong with gear or hydro. But with that kind of acreage I would think a tractor would be almost mandatory... Better yet, go used and buy both! Seriously though it all depends on what you want to accomplish long and short term. As someone already mentioned, you won't lose much money on a tractor if you buy it right. The UTV's aren't much good for work imo, compared to a tractor and won't hold their value as well unless you buy used. If you're looking to just go out and have fun riding around though that's a different story. But then you'd cover 170 acres pretty quickly!

I was out of state for the weekend. I looked around the forum, but I haven't seen any postings of terrible youth weekend experiences. Did I miss them somewhere? Fill me in guys, how was it? Being serious here, I want to know if anyone had trouble? Thanks.

Was the concern about warm weather such a hot topic when they announced the Oct 1st bow opener? I would think it would be a much more relevant discussion regarding archery than a 3 day gun hunt...

Doc I'm only singling you out because you're a moderator of this site and a self proclaimed critical thinker (also apparently the only one on here it seems, according to you...) You talk the talk, do you walk it? You have a great tool in this forum and have been very vocal in criticizing many details of this plan and several others who have posted. I am not a regular on this site, so maybe I've missed it if you've done what I'm going to suggest, and I would like to see others do the same: If you have such great ideas, post an outline of them in another thread and link from here to that topic. Let us discuss your points but more importantly, let us hear them instead of all your reasons against the current plan of action. See what kind of response you get, and see if you can please the masses. I'm listening and I'm sure others are too. I sent several ideas and suggestions to the DEC during their feedback periods over the past couple years and I'm humble enough to see my ideas were not with the majority so I'm willing to see how this flies. I've also posted my ideas on other forums and tried to get people to send in their ideas, get people on the same page, etc. But I also realize I'm not going to get far on an online forum. You seem more willing to keep beating your head against the wall, and not settle for concessions, so I applaud you in that. I'm not disputing what you're saying, just thinking a more positive approach that actually gives some direction all in one place (and organized) would be a much better way to get your points across. You dismiss others input as less important or less thought out than your ideas. So let's hear it. Let's hear some of that "It takes somebody such as myself to look beyond the flaws of current thinking to invest the effort of innovation." swagger! If your ideas are valid and as innovative as you claim, you'll have some support from myself and I'm sure many others on here. Then maybe we can organize an effort to promote those ideas to the DEC and our representatives in government. ERussell, I like the article you posted.

Doc, With all due respect, you are complaining about the flow of information, rumors, etc. yet you post these random questions claiming no one is asking them and they are of utmost importance... Then point fingers and place blame. Were you around over the past two years when the DEC put this out for public discussion, posted information updates, held public meetings, took feedback through multiple sources? No one says bow or gun hunters NEED to hunt these 3 days, it is simply an option now that was not there in the past. I do not like the plan but it is set for now. If you're concerned, wear orange, don't hunt, take a youth, plenty of options. I believe some of the DEC's reasoning was the holiday weekend would allow families time to hunt and not interfere with school, and it is typically mild weather. I think they also claimed that people who bowhunt are more likely to recruit their kids into hunting due to the increased length of that season, whereas people who only gun hunt have less time to do so. Again, I think this plan is far from perfect but at this point it's a little late to whine and moan about it, DEC gave us that opportunity over the past two years and is closed now. Give it a chance. Spread the word so fellow hunters on both sides know it's going on. Maybe it will get some kids out in the woods who otherwise wouldn't be. At least they are trying, and they sure as heck gave plenty of opportunity for feedback leading up to this. If it doesn't work, hopefully they will see that and change it. But again, it is an opportunity that we as hunters have not had in the past. No one is saying you need to use it.

Doc, I suggest you sign up for the NY Big Game email list - I got an official release about the youth hunt today. Here's the link: http://lists.dec.state.ny.us/mailman/listinfo/nybiggame And at the bottom of their email is another source for updates via email: You may also catch the latest updates on New York's fish and wildlife by subscribing to Field Notes, another free online e-mail list provided by the Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources. To learn more and subscribe, see www.dec.ny.gov/about/63801.html This has been a good resource for information straight from the source, as you are asking for. I assume it is where many of the news sources also get leads. I find they send this information to the email list before the website is updated sometimes.

Love the Swaros myself but I have a relatively inexpensive 12x50 Cabela's that's worked great for the year I've had them. If you're near a Cabela's with a Bargain Cave, start looking there... Just saw your most recent post with price range, Nikons are nice too!

Yes! Definitely a case of "bad" genetics. In 2003 I watched him come in on a really nice 3 year old 10 point and the 10 just put his head down and turned away, wanted nothing to do with him. Hard to believe, but he was a big racked main frame fork 4 point then and not a big body. From what I saw he had no brows at all. I thought he was a young deer but only saw him for a few seconds. I guess it could have been a relative but I've never seen a similar racked buck out there, before or since... We saw him and hunted him a bunch prior to and during the 2004 season, and my buddy watched him breed a doe on and off all day during one sit. We haven't seen a buck with a rack that resembles his in the years that have followed. His left main beam does spike up and the point that comes forward where the main beam typically is is actually a drop point. His right main beam is an even forked split, then the one that comes forward splits again. He has 10 legal points (1" or more). The DEC biologist aged him at 5+ years. He had been running hard, and weighed a whopping 136 lbs. dressed when shot on Dec 12th. Hunted and killed on 60 acres with a public walking trail along one side, residential on 3 sides with light commercial mixed in on one side and private park/no hunting on the 4th border. But lots of more open turf in 3 directions with hunting pressure just beyond. Boy am I glad nobody culled him out before me!

Exactly. Age and environment are pretty much the only things we can even try to "manage" as hunters/stewards of the environment.

So by what Phade just posted above, it is potentially more of a late birth and environmental/competition issue than genetics. Unless I read that wrong. Looks like he wasn't last to the apple tree though!

+1 well said! Good luck this season Miz!