furman_ny

Mostly 9p, a little in 8m, occasionally drift into a few other 8's.

Nice looking camp enduro, havent been over there in awhile, so not exactly sure of your location but you are for dure within 10 miles of my house, will be around that area chasin geese next month, maybe Ill run into you.

Opening day-pass anywhere, 2 days left in season-pass unless hunting on heavily pressured state land, then I probably think about it too long and he would walk away. Usually many of the bigger bucks around here are taken in muzzleloading season, probably rather save the tag and hope for bigger one then. I have taken quite a few smaller buck early in bow season in the past, rather wait and see what happens now. Although any deer with bow is good one in my mind, so if ya choose to, let er fly.

I use two, a Rem. 1187 w/rifled barrel and fireglow open sight with Rem. Copper Solid slug when walking, use a Browning Gold 20 ga. with rifled barrel, scope and Lightfield slugs when sitting.

Was he hunting over the bait or did they just find it in deers system and it could have ate it somewhere away from his treestand? Im not a big Ted fan, but he is hardcore pro hunting so he cant be all bad. I just wonder, cause unless I am incorrect, baiting and or feeding deer is illegal here too, yet every outdoors department or store has several of these baits for sale, obviously someone is buying them and using them or they wouldnt be on the shelves. Now if you buy one of these mineral blocks or this cmere deer and put it out a half mile from your stand now, if you shoot a deer in bow season and it has some of these minerals in its system, I guess that means your baiting them too??? if so there is alot of baiters that are no better than him, they just didnt get caught===yet.

Doesnt upset me at all Griff, thats the way I look at it too. Also one of the reasons why I dont think you will see statewide ARs, gonna be a tough sell telling EVERY landowner that buys a license AND pays taxes on his land that he CANNOT shoot what he wishes.

If I remember correctly, the harvest was slightly lower than normal ;last season, mostly due to less than ideal conditions on the first weekend of gun season I remember the DEC reporting as a big reason. I believe I read on another post the DEC goes by last year as a major factor to this years permits, concluding if a high number of tags were filled then population too high and they give out more next season, if % of permits filled is low, then they cut permits. Did they forget about their own reasoning on why harvest %s on DMPs were low last year? Do they think all these deer died of natural causes? I dont get it. I live right on border of Regions 8 & 9, everyone you talk to that pays attention says same thing--theres deer all over the place, but somehow all WMUs near me are cut in permits--confusing to say the least. Probably be another low harvest, an easy winter, and in a knee jerk reaction they will hand out permits like candy next year. If they think the doe/deer population is lower in this WMU, well they are gettin their numbers somehow that is beyond me, I think they are just plain wrong.

John R, do you take your tax number with you every year? I have never heard of a landowner being turned down, unless you are applying where 0 permits are being handed out.

Sounds like a good article to me, and well said jimbod.

Anyone else go to the convention this last weekend? was there mid afternoon til close on saturday, didnt seem to be much of a crowd there at all, and way less camping in infield than normal. Found a couple good buys and came home with some more used traps and of course some more lures.

Not so sure its all about self control, in my eyes its all about opportunity, mostly driven by money--or a lack of it. Ask a guy who only hunts on state land and/or farms where everyone is allowed to hunt- hes gonna take what he can get, the guy who owns or hunts on private land where hunter numbers are small, he will be for laving small bucks alone. The guy on state land has 20 or more guys hunting same area as him, while guy on private land gets to hunt much less pressured deer, therefore seeing more deer moving around in daylight. The guy on state land would gladly switch places, private land guy not so much. They took quite a bit more 2 1/2 yr. old and older deer around where I hunt than normal last season,is it because they let yearlings walk?? in part yeah, but main reason is the use of rifles now here, many guys now can plant food to bait them out in the open and sit back 300 yards from the field and shoot them when they come out, much of this being done because they dont have to get anywhere near edges of field or bedding areas to kill them, watching many deer per hunt til one that suits them comes out. At the same time other guy sits up in a tree, sees 4 or 5 other hunters walk by, drives go past,and so on, and is lucky to see even a glimpse of a deer, and it surely will be on full alert. The vast majority of these hunters will never be in favor of passing ANY sized buck. Many of these guys are the ones who say there are not enough deer cause they see very few, while on neighboring, private land with little to no pressure, they are seeing and passing tons of deer every day.

Fairgame, biggest and strongest survive, being half the size they are the ones who get the short end of available food, especially in tough winters with deep snow for any length of time. Hunter, first off, I said a couple 10k, which in reality it would probably take closer to 30k of a decline in buck kill; now you get 10% statewide cut in DMP, which would add who knows how many 10s of thousands of doe to have twins next spring, most bred by crappy gened 1 1/2 yr.olds. Maybe we get bad weather again the first weekend of gun when most deer are taken, and the doe take on available permits goes down too, pretty soon its gonna get crowded. I hunt with agroup during gun season, and we have weighed every deer taken on a digital scale for the last 10 years, and I Know for a fact the average weights of doe and yearlings bucks has gone downhill on deer taken from same properties each year. How can that mean anything other than they are less healthy?? That obviously cannot stand for a statewide survey, but Id be willing to bet its leaning the same way. Before you say thats only one or two deer, its varies anywhere from 50-80 deer a year, and one of our guys runs a processing business that handles around 1,000 a year, many of which he weighs for any hunter who wants to know.And yes, I do know how to age the deer by their teeth.

Burm, I too hunt for the fun and time outdoors, I am on the other end of the spectrum from you on the time, I am out there 3 out of every 4 days of the whole season, bow all the way through muzzle. Maybe there are more deer here than in many WMUs of the state, we have huge numbers of small, private parcels of land, most of which are iowned by people who dont live here, most all get hunted first weekend and thats it, allowing the vast majority of deer a free pass 95% if the season. Alot of these fellows will NOT shoot a doe, which obviously results in tons of fawns each year. Im just thinking that not allowing this type of hunter to take a smaller buck will result in most taking NO deer EVERY year, and that cant be good, somethings gotta give.

Hunter, your right letting most yearling bucks walk wont starve the whole herd, but unless you take more doe's, or alot more old bucks, to make up for the extra deer, that years fawns will be the ones to pay for it, many of them being males.I see nothing lol about that.

Burm, kinda the point Im getting at, they give out permits and everyone goes nuts thinking there will be no deer left. when in actuality less than half get used. Lets be real here, ARs are being pushed because guys want to shoot a big buck, which is fine by me as that is what Im after too, but if you dont keep the number of deer down at the level where the available food allows them to reach potential, its useless in my mind. Many peoples idea of deer sizes differ, its all or nothing with me, if you let em go as 1 1/2 yr.olds, you should let em go as 2 and 3 yr. olds too, you get the state to regulate that and cut the doe herd by half, and Ill jump on board with ya. Until then, you might as well let em harvest what they want to.

Not hurting mine at all, I pass many every season. But it may well ruin many younger hunters season, or the guy who only has a day or two to hunt. You wanna be the one to tell a 16 year old kid who only has state land to hunt he cant shoot his first buck, which in his mind IS a trophy, because the guy who owns the adjacent property will feel better about himself shooting it the next season when its STILL an immature deer? Id rather give the kid a chance myself.

You and everyone else in the state HAS to let them walk, that will be more than just a few extra deer living,a couple of extra 10 thousand more like it.

TheHunter, be more specific on these results if you would. You are seeing more bucks? same amount but a bit larger bucks? did everyone you know and hear of take one, or see multiple MATURE bucks?? Or is there just more 90 inch two year olds being shot?

Tony, your theory is great on shooting doe's instead of smaller bucks---- until you are in a WMU that is not giving many permits, where I am at only half the applicants will get ONE, much less 3 or 4. As far as the 40% of 6 pt. or more yearlings surviving, it looks like everyone who supports ARs thinks EVERY 1 1/2 year old buck gets shot, far from it. For sure they make up the majority of the kill each year, mostly beacuse there is many more of them, but also because, I think all would agree, every year they get older they get smarter and tougher to hunt. If the ARs are put in place, the buck take will surely drop like a stone, which is what supporters of it want leaving more bucks for next year. Next year comes around and most of that age class will make it cause they have wised up a bit, and most of the new crop of 1 1/2 yr. olds will be protected again, leaving too many bucks in a given area that probably has too many doe and fawn to begin with, sure they will survive barring a real bad winter, but they will not be as healthy as they could be, thus not growing as good of racks or body size as they could. There is only so much food to go around, whether there is 10 deer or 100. I am not a supporter because of that one reason, having more deer does NOT mean having better deer, I for one see no point in passing a spike or 4 pt., only to shoot him the next season as a thin racked 7 or 8 pt. Only way I get on board is if the overall number of deer is GREATLY reduced, mostly through doe harvest, and that will never happen, first off because the dec will never allow it to, it would result in less licenses being bought, but they wont have to cause many, many hunters refuse to take a doe. All that said, nothings going to change, some people will take young bucks, a few will get older ones, and many will get none. A good buddy of mine hunts Saskatchewan most every year, most places there have 2 or 3 deer per sq. mile, what do ya think that number is in most parts of this state? a touch higher I would venture to guess, they get to be twice the size of deer here with truly trophy sized racks, but fact is many guys dont want to have to HUNT, they want to see 20 every time they go out, which is fine, but in my opinion you cant have big herds of doe and large numbers of big bucks in the same area, and most people will pick seeing alot of deer over having the remote chance of seeing one really large one.

I go every year too, even though as stated earlier it is pretty much the same thing every year, usually can find something I want whether I need it or not. Seems to be they are getting more arts and crafts vendors than hunting/fishing/trapping vendors, cant say as that thrills me very much.

Fairgame, that is by all means your choice and you can do as you please, gotta disagree with ya on the killing part. I by no means shoot the first deer I see, but I take my fair share each and every year, and will continue to do so. I know several guys who do it same way you do, they pretty much have turned into deer watchers instead of hunters. Unless I am missing something, we as hunters are supposed to be the tool the DEC uses to keep deer herds in check, and if we dont, they will do it in some other way, like hiring shooters to thin them at night over bait===now that is killing. Or they would just hand out thousands more nuisance permits, farmers would get a couple guys to shoot them in mid summer and throw them in a ditch===killing.Im thinking if everyone went one year without shooting ANY deer, there would be a substantial winter kill, you want to walk around your property in the spring looking at deer carcasses laying everywhere, I doubt it. Deer do not have a corner grocery store to go to when the food runs out like we do, they have to compete with squirrel, turkey and raccoons, to name a few for food, and most landowners wont let people hunt these other critters in fear of them scaring "the big one" off their property, so every time someone shoots a deer near your property, it inevitably will make the remaining deer that much more healthy. Either we do it or mother nature will. and I think that anyone who sits out there in freezing cold, heat, rain, snow, whatever weather, buys their license and shoots a deer is hunting. Also, Im thinking YOU would kill the first deer you saw EVERY year if it was a large buck, if not you might as well take headphones and a camera in the woods instead of a weapon.

I cant speak for gjs cause I dont know him, but I know from experience that its a peeing match thing for the guys near me that dont shoot small bucks. They want everyone to think they are better hunters because they are "trophy" hunters, its that simple. I get a good chuckle when inevitably some young kid who just grabs a shotgun out of the corner and finds some grabs 3 different kind of slugs, sits on a stump on the back 40 and shoots the biggest buck taken in a given area. Get to listen to the cryin and moaning from the "trophy" boys, and generally they get plain mad, cause it wasnt them. Does this make the young lad a better hunter than them???? Hmmm, food for their thoughts, not mine, I go take a look at the deer, congratulate the kid, genuinely that is, and go back to my business.

Makes sense Buckstop, a guy sits in treestand, soon after light a 6" spike walks by, an hour later a small forkhorn passes through, then here comes a nice little basket rack 8 pointer =====boom, legal deer down, but still a year and a halfer, and for sure the one you would want to let go if looking for good genes and bigger racks, which everyone knows is what AR and QDM guys are after, not a healthier herd. In a way they are kind of shooting themselves in the foot supporting ARs, unless the state passes a 5 on one side, or a minimum spread requirement, which won't happen. Thinking the car insurance companies probably wouldnt be thrilled having every male deer being protected at least two years, and in some cases their whole lives. I myself think the huge amounts of land that are off limits to hunters, game preserves, parks, and town limits to name a few, do quite a good enough job at restricting harvest. I know in areas I hunt, like everywhere else, posted lands outnumber huntable lands by a bunch, many of those lands owned by guys who only come to camps for first weekend of season and are done, one guy in camp gets a buck, maybe they shoot a doe or two, rest of the deer lay tight and live til next year. Thats not taking into account the properties that dont allow any hunting, and owners are against it too, leaving a sanctuary for every deer in the area to retreat to.

Running yotes with hounds gettin to be quite popular, did it with a group of guys last winter for first time, was alot of fun. Its a good thing to keep yotes in check, have talked to trappers from many different states, all say same thing, if you dont keep yote numbers down, you will have no more fox to speak of, along with greatly reduced small game numbers. I would rather see good numbers of all animals rather than yotes behind every tree, there are more around here than say 10 years ago, hopefully population stays stable and doesnt increase much.

Saw about 20 bucks riding around glassing tonight, one nice, wide 10 pointer in the 130ish range, couple nice 2 year olds and the rest 1 1/2 yr. olds, most all doe's had 2 fawns with them.