Jmny

Just wondering if the guys still putting time in the woods, how many are seeing a drastic reduction in deer movement? And do you find this movement to be non existent during windy days 20-30 mph.

As a member of 6 years and with limited participation. I’m realizing possible reasons why I’ve limited my participation. The personal attacks and sniping back in forth a little mundane. So, seeing I accepted the limitations on free speech to become a member of this site (as every member did) I will offer the following to the membership that seems to want to combine multiple interest into a site based on hunting. Raunchy joke sites: and many other types Jokes4us.com, Top-Funny-Jokes.com Another thread I believe should be addressed is the political thread. Never saw so many unfounded facts stated as truth, and being abused by members of both party affiliates.

I would tend to agree 3.5 yrs. the deer still appears to be heavier in the hind quarters. The chest while more developed than both a 1.5 & 2.5, it doesn’t appear to have the equalization of the rear hind area. In addition the under belly (stomach) appears to be a straight line across the length of the deer. Believe you could see the underbelly to start sagging at 4.5. Just my opinion, but could be an expensive mistake at one of those pay to hunt trophy buck establishments.

Was wondering if they found this buck? Stated there was a good blood track for a mile. Hopefully, they continues searching and we’re successful. An average deer has approximately 8 pints of blood. And should be recovered after it loses 35% of its blood it will be recoverable. So that’s an average of 128 ounces of blood minus 35% ( 44.8 ounces rounded to 45. A good blood flow track for a distance of a mile, should result in recovering the deer shortly after picking up the trail the next day here’s hoping your successful in your recovery..

Well it’s very difficult to guess. But the ears o the head of the bear are small in nature and located down on the side of the head, indicating an older bear with a head circumference of 20 inches. A guesstimate of the length from tipof the nose to the tail of the bear to be 6’6” and the width from tip of left paw to top of right paw to be s follows. The back of the bear appears to be 36 inches in height. Add to this the length of each paw guesstimate 10 inches each = 36 x 2 =72 + 10x2+20, 92 total inches. So that would be 6’6” = 80+92= 172 divided by 2 = 86. Divided by 12= 7.16 estimate 460 lbs but not an expert with limited experience bear hunting only one killed in my life. 40 + years ago.. will be interested to see what others with more experience hunting and judging weight of bears will submit as their answer. In fact I just acquired the procedure used to jguess the bear’s weight.

Just wondering how many hunters will continue using their bow as the weapon of choice in the regular season when the options of pistol, shotgun and rifle are available in certain areas.

Response to Buckmaster 7600

Well let’s address the point of being redundant. It might be true. But the fact that you continuously choose to read new postings and express your view points is somewhat amazing. This discussion has a title, dealing with crossbow inclusion. Yet you can’t stay away from a subject that has had almost 500 responses.( is which I would guess at least 10-15 are yours). Must be a strong desire to justify your opinion on the subject matter . And the manner you choose to justify your belief will never happen. If you can get 200 hunters ( half compound half crossbow shoot at targets 100 yards away. It will be time for me to give up hunting. If there are that many irresponsible archery hunters occupying the woods, it’s not safe for me. But the funniest part is even though it would never happen, you actually make a prediction on the results!!!! Just wondering how you arrived at those predictions. And how you justify them? And please keep your answer factual. Seems a large percentage of those that want to keep the crossbow non inclusive tend to post non factional reasoning. Whether it be some type of activity that is impractical or deals with their unique ability to see into the future. ( ie technological advancements. It’s very difficult to discuss your opinion when the other side takes such liberties as supporting their argument with non factual Information. Deal with reality . The choices that I perceive to keep the crossbow non inclusive for the entire archery season are twofold. The first would be the oppurtunity to have less competition for areas to hunt on public land. The second point would be the macho aspect that many compound users referred to in their posts. They earned the “right” to have exclusive rights hunt deer for the first 34 days of archery season. That it is to easy to take A deer with a compound. Well it’s kind of a tough sell to say you earned the right, when by claiming that right, your denying a large percentage of former recurve and compound hunters with 20-40 years of archery hunting experience the right to continue pursuing deer during the entire archery season. Without all the technological advancements of the compound bow to date. seems every reasoning I read falls into these two categories. Now I realize, that most compound hunters will find my opinion troublesome. I welcome another reasoning if you are dealing with present day factual reasoning. i have hunted for 47 years, approximately 30 with a bow,. And have always prided myself as a law abiding and ethical hunter. But to be honest, with the state telling me that my crossbow is basically a muzzleloader ( check the differences in speed and Kinetic energy of both). Muzzleloader 50 yards 2031 FPS/ Kinetic energy 2290 ft lbs. crossbow @ 50 yards 390 fps and kinetic energy 142 ft lbs. Now does that look comparable to you???? Now compared to compounds within 75-100 fps and kinetic energy approximately 50 ft lbs. I have contemplated using my crossbow the entire archery season. I have four private separate parcels of woods to hunt. Totaling 129 acres. If I have contemplate this I wonder how many others with private land have actually contemplated the same or followed through and hunted with their crossbows during the entire archery season on private land. Have many more years of quality hunting behind me than in front of me. Addressed in response EC to bucknaster 7699 posting.

I have read many options on this thread that deal with 100 yard hunting shots on deer in the woods as a reason why a percentage of archery hunters are against inclusion of the crossbow for the entire archery season. Which I found to be ludicrous. Propelling an arrow one hundred yards in the woods attempting o clear tree branches that you can’t even perceive while aiming. Illustrates extreme unsportsmanship. And a total lack of hunting skills. I’ve seen videos on YouTube of individuals that claim to have taken 100 yard shots, I won’t contest there honesty, but look at the scenery. The one guy shot an elk by shooting through a group of pine trees that didn’t have any branches on the lower12 to 15 feet.the pine rolls were evenly spread about 4 feet apart. The animal was standing in an open field approximately 30-40 yards into the field. And aside from the perfect shooting situation nothing in the way to deflect arrow. In addition to the hunter was supported by a shooting table. Then there those percentage of hunters that actually have to project into the future and anticipate their belief of technology advancements to justify their negative views of the crossbow. Others feel that they possess some superior hunting skills over the use of crossbow hunters. Now if these individuals really believed their own words, they wouldn’t found the need to move up to a much easier compound bow. The recurve is the most difficult, requires strength to hold fifty pounds at full draw, even if your cheating using a release. But I started to do a little research on 100 yard shots and googled best sights for archery season. And to my surprise the following sights for compound bows with pins to 100 yards were listed “ Best compound bow sights” 1) trophy ridge Recall 1 Pro dovetail. Set pin to 20 and 30 yards. Your are now sighted in to 100 yards This bow is set for 330fps -265 FPS. 2) optimizer lite ultra 5000. Sight in at 20 & 80 yards then there are 3 more that you presight in to 100 yards. It really was a shocking discovery fo me. In my day of compound Hunting we had maximum draws of 50%. And speeds of 225-275. Now a group of manufactures have developed a sight for compound bows to 100 yards. Still don’t believe you should take any shoot over 50 yards with an arrow. But that’s my standard not one I would apply to other hunters. They have to make their own decision on limitations . Bottom line I can’t speak to technological improvements in the future. As I believe others can’t. If in fact they can, they should capitalize financially on their visions.

NYs regulation does in fact use the wording limb tip to limb tip.

Read the specifications listed in each description of bow for sale. It states the width as axle to axle. I believe the New York State registration stipulates same but I would have to verify this before stating it as fact.

Actually they fall short of the axle to axle minimum width of 17 inches uncocked. Drawing a crossbow over 200 pound draw weight is tenuous for most hunters especially if they have a longer power stroke.( distance in string from uncocked to resting place when under full load, fully cocked with safety on, so most manufactures attempt to get more speed & KE. From adjusting the power stroke to be longer in length .

I don’t fault the crossbow manufactures ( unless I was a stockholder of the company.) Investing in a crossbow that 30, now 20 fps faster that competitors crossbows but not meeting the minimum width requirements in NYS. That’s nearly 3/4 of a million possible sales that I have excluded from ever happening. Now let’s assume only one percent of Ny hunters decide to purchase my bow if it was legal in NYS that’s roughly 7,500 sales.the next two fastest bows which both qualify as legal in NYS are 20 ands 30 FPS slower. Some factual info: 440fps - @ 20 yds - 432fps - 173 KE - 4” drop @ 50 yds - 418 fps - 163 KE - 25” drop 410fps - @20 yds -402 FPS - 151 KE - 5 “ drop @ 50 yds - 390 fps - 142 KE - 28 “ drop mai the question is having a narrower width outside NY Standards worth the possibilities of losing 1% of posibile sales to roughly 3/4 million deer hunters. Especially seeing 95-99 % of the shots in the woods are limited to 150 feet. And the minimum amount of KE needed to effectively kill a deer Is between 25-30 KE. So is that Mille second of speed worth eliminating x possible crossbow purchases ? Myself and most reasonable individuals would say no. pS: before posting this article I decided to research the manufactures webpage. Whilechecking the specs of the scorpyd Vtec extreme is 15.& 7/8 th cocked. NYS requires a minimum width of 17 inches uncocked. So it would be presumptuous of me to disqualify there bow as illegal in NYS without measuring the width uncocked. Owever I have no interest in doing so. So anyone that wants to hunt in NY might want to check out the uncocked width length. Additional they have anothercnodel that attains 440 FPS speed the Ventilator which stipulates axle to axle cocked at 12&7/8th and uncocked at 19&5/8th. Well within NY limits for a legal crossbow. Still perplexed why this was has both imensions listed and the Vtec extreme only the cocked. Pss: the ravin15 shoots @ 425 fps with an axle to axle width of only 10.5 inches uncocked costing roughly $2,000. Lot of money to spend for something you can’t use in NYS. But it might be worth it to some

If they made it inclusive it would require an archery privlege not a muzzleloader privlege. Which is a wash at $15 for both. But presently many hunters that purchased the old sportsman license that included ( Big game, small game, fishing and turkey permits. In addition to purchasing a bow and/or muzzleloader permit. I’m willing to bet that quite a few crossbow hunters still pay for their archery (bow) license even though they don’t need it or use it. But after reading the rules and regulations, the crossbow hunter for $15 gets a guaranteed doe permit not limited to a specific DMP, in addition to a deer of either chance on the Muzzleloader /Bow tag.. You would get both tags. Any hunter with only the archery or muzzleloader privilege gets only bow/ muzzleloader either sex permit.

The archery hunters that choose to use a crossbow ( out of necessity or choice) are in fact being excluded for the first 34 days of archery season. And every hunter who expresses their disdain to have the crossbows be inclusive for the entire archery season is in effect speaking out against allowing disabled or older hunters from being part of the full archery season. And for those that need proof that other states allow crossbows inclusively during the entire archery season they only need to look at the three states with more deer hunters than New York. Texas, Pennsylvania, Michigan are inclusive of crossbows for the entire archery season.

Wow, I’m offended by your ability to make up words. Myself, I wouldn’t invest in manufacturing a crossbow that doesn’t meet the qualification of the 4th highest number is deer hunters in the country. That is 741,140 prospective crossbow sales I disregard Because of the maximum width of the crossbow is less than 17 inches. Oh by the way the top three states all allow Crossbow use all of the archery season. I don’t know a lot, but I’m not to lazy to research it. Would never want to put myself in a position were I run my mouth but fail to give any credible data to reinforce my opinions. Seems some people have no problem doing so. And just to simplify this for you, I stated 741,140 potential sales. That would be the number of deer hunters in NYS as of 2016. And yes, I realize that doesn’t mean they would all buy a crossbow, in fact a large percentage don’t presently archery hunt . But the possibility of starting would PROBABLY increase if the crossbow was inclusive for the entire archery season like the three highest states( per deer hunters)

Again a comprehension problem. I stated about bow manufacture that would invest in making a crossboe that isn’t able to be used deer hunting in a state the size of New York. Further the point was concentrating our efforts to just making the use of the crossbow during the entire archery season. What the NYCC is trying to do is similar to what congressman and senators do to a worthy proposition attach amendments to i it, to try to sneak into law. Most time it serves to get the original proposition defeated. Second point, it’s not about guns but if it was, you wouldn’t be able to use magizinr holding over 10. I’m not sure but it might even be lower( 5 ? From experience with a shotgun. But as some one that takes3 studs with me into the woods and hunts 90 percent of my gun hunting with a muzzleloader I have no need to be concerned with knowing how many rounds above 3 are allowed.

The bottom line is this state has imposed restrictions as to minimum width and Maximum draw weight. As long as I have an oppurtunity to hunt with a crossbow within the stated limitations during the entire archery season I’m find. I won’t buy a crossbow outside the NYS limitations for crossbows if my primary hunting area were within NYS. Why can’t I hunt slduting gun season with a fully automatic weapon we’re i wouldn’t have to repeatedly pull the trigger for each shot. Why does the state place that limitation on my gun season. I bought a crossbow out of necessity. I made sure I purchased one that met the limitations of the state. I have a crossbow that shoots 410 FPS, with kinetic energy of 149 lbs at 10 yards. It maintains it speed and kinetic energy necessary to shoot a deer at 50 yards. The longest shit you’re going to get in the woods without weeks of clearing shooting lanes of tree branches. But the major reason of buying this weapon was that it was something I could use for every big game on the continent any many other. There will never be a need to purchase another crossbow. But I struggle to pull back my 185 lb draw. So I have my son draw the crossbow when he drops me at my ground blind. Yes I’m limited to one shot, but I’ve grown use to that since I picked up a Thompson muzzleloader. With my inherent limitations I realized that I have one shot to be successful. Now . I believe that every hunter ( New and old) should only be allowed one shot in the magazine of any shotgun or rifle. It would require the hunters to be more patient and wait for a kill shot to present itself. However, I realize that imposing my beliefs on others isn’t right. The other hunters have met all the state requirements to hunt, how they choose to do so, isn’t my decision to make. The only time I feel a necessary responsibility to intervene with the way others hunters hunt, is when they hunt my land. It is my responsibility to keep members of my family and friends in a safe situation. PS: : if you bought a crossbow that doesn’t fall within the parameters of being legal in NY I would check with Ohio regs

Would be nice to have a discussion dealing with present-day factual information. Many of the respondents are using heir imagination to forecast what they believe will be the technology advancements in the future. I'm very limited, I can only make an assessment of current actual facts. After reading some of these threads, I believe there are certain manufactures that have built crossbows than exceed New York state crossbow regulations. Can't speak to the other states rules and regulations, Apparently there is an alternative market for crossbows. This,in my opinion is exactly where the NYCC is undertaking the wrong approach to getting the crossbow inclusive for the entire archery season. That should be the sole amended change in the present rules and regulations. To do so, would automatically adjust the license requirement to be an archery license(permit). Not necessitate a muzzleloader permit. And leave all the other restrictions in place. The decision to make a weapon that isn't allowed for hunting in all states wasn't mind. Nor do I feel obligated to defend their point of view(aka profitability). Especially in view of the additional request for exemptions (bundling)would either slow the process or totally defeat it. What older hunter that hunted with a recurve or compound bow that had a maximum let off 50% and speeds of 225-275 fps would believe the newer compounds the last 10 years. The increase in draw weight let off is outstanding believe it ranges to 80 percent. Quite a difference from a recurve and compounds of the seventies,eighties and early nineties. The ones us older hunters grew up using. With quite a few bows being capable of propelling an arrow 350fps and the corresponding increase in kinetic energy. ( which makes the use the bow, worthy of use for other big game animals A bow with a IBO rating of 350 with a draw weight of 70 pounds with a 29" draw will propelling an arrow @ 310 fps, 211.4 mph, with a kinetic energy of 91.8 ft lbs. Suggested minimum kinetic energy for deer hunting 25_30 ft lbs. So much more advanced than us older hunters had at our disposal to bow hunt.. I guess one could stay we earned the right to pick our choice of bow during the entire archery season.

Again false and misleading information. Correct me if I’m wrong, but to my memory the only handicap permit one can apply for during gun, archery( compound or crossbow ) is if you had a disability that prevented you from pulling the trigger or release. In these extreme handicapped situations your allowed (after securing the necessary paperwork) to discharge your weapon through a STRAW. Always wondered if I needed to be handicapped to that degree, how would I lift, aim, turn my weapon to adjust aim for an animal that moved a foot since initial aiming, to finally be able to blow( exhale) through the straw to discharge my weapon. I can only quess that someone in that state of disability would have an interest or financial assets to have gear developed to assist in their hunting experience and at the same time make it safe to discharge those weapons in a responsible manner. (recoil from gun). i know of no other handicapped variances other than use of vehicle for mobility on some state lands( limited). I’m not familiar with any exceptions to the rules and regulations that give a handicapped or elderly person special permit. To use a crossbow aside from the last 14 days of archery season which is something all hunters presently enjoy ( Nothing special) Apparently I’m not up to date with the rules and permits available to a certain population of NY hunters( handicapped) Presently I know of no permit that would allow me to use my crossbow during the entire archery season. But that is something that really has my interest. I would appreciate your assistance on locating these permits. Where can I find this information ? Don’t want to be bothersome , you can just respond on this thread, I will check periodically. And thank you in advance, for your assistance and correcting my misguided train of thought on this matter.

I believe we crossbow hunters are doing ourselves a disservice to push for more than the option to have use of crossbow be inclusive for the entire archery season. i believe complicating the request with additional request will only slow or deter a change to include crossbows use in all of archery season. I have no pity for any hunter or manufacture that has bought or produced a Hunting instrument that doesn’t fall within framework of some states limitations. First, why would a company invest in a crossbow the exceeds the regulations of many states? Apparently they believed they would appeal to more than hunters. And why would a hunter in New York purchase a crossbow in excess of 200 lb draw weight? Or narrower than 17 inches wide? These are not my problems, I’m just an older handicapped hunter that, if I choose to continue archery hunting will have to employ the crossbow. The important aspect of getting the crossbow to be inclusive for the entire archery season is allowing us crossbow hunters ( some older or individuals with limitations ) to continue to spend out later years enjoying the sport/ activities we have over our life span. I believe it is a mistake to expand our request to anything more than making crossbows inclusive for the entire archery season. Let those misguided companies that developed crossbows outside the limitations of some states, spend their own time and money for changes in limitations. Or suffer the consequences of their mistakes. i believe the crossbow will eventually be inclusive the whole archery season, but that time frame could be set back many years by representing those misguided hunters and manufactures that made and purchased those weapons.

Wow, I believe I read we’re somone stated my opinion was basically me talking outside both sides of my mouth. That’s why I have to chuckle after reading the two previous texts. “Archery is Treasured for its perception of tradition and origin”And you chose to hunt with a compound, mechanical release, probably a compound that has 65-80 % let off. Increased technology is arrows and broadheads, all resulting in greater speeds and kinetic energy (foot pounds) that resulted from you abilities to draw and hold a higher draw weight, which all translates to TECHNOLOGY. You are no where close to a traditional Hunter. At least I can be honest with myself. And do you honestly believe that by using all the applied technology that you “ have earned the right” to exclude other hunters from being able to enjoy the pursuit of deer for the entire archery season? Well, let me tell you that the majority of those who would choose to use the crossbow for archery season are the true individuals that have “EARNED” the right to hunt the entire archery season. Us older hunters, that had choices of either recurve or compounds with a maximum let off of 50%. Let me guess, Tuesday night you walked around with a recurve, finger glove, maybe a sight pin and made believe you were a traditional bowhunter. ( trick or treat) the biggest draw back to “want to be’s” are their ego’s. Nothing is preventing you from actually becoming a traditional hunter. Give up all your technology advancements and then you will earn my respect and appreciation for your point of view. Until then keep drooling out both sides. Thanks for the chuckles.

A very astute commentary.

Ok, nice reference to talking out of bothe sides of my mouth. Here how I can suggest, both. I’m limited on this medium of only being able to express my opinion in words. I have no power to ensure the people that read my words comprehends their meaning. I asked if as hunters we have a goal of using the most humane methods to insure a quick humane kill and some compound users believe it is easier to kill a deer with a compound wouldn’t it be advisable to hunt with a crossbow? At no point did I tell anyone what to do. It was simply a logical question. As far as stating a hunter can use whatever weapon is legal, is not a contradiction. I would never try to demean any legal weapon for deer hunting. That’s the job of the anti hunters and unfortunately some hunters. I recognize the freedom of choice, and would never try to impose my beliefs on another to limit his/her methodor time to pursue his Hunting. how many of Hunters have 100 yards of open fields available? Let’s assume you did. How long and how many lost arrows would loose attempting to cite in a 100 yard target. A you actually believe you can hold a crossbow steady to insure a kill shot on a deer? Then there’s always the question what happens if the deer enters the fields 30 yards away? If any hunter wants to verify their thoughts pertaining to compound / crossbow arrow ballistics I suggest going to Peteward.com then in the left side column down towards the bottom of the page to Ballistic calc( for compounds) and Best Crossbow Source. Then arrow ballistic calculator. In closing, if you have a open field of at least 100 yards and you can get the deer to enter the field at 100 yards ( give or take a couple inches at that distance) you might want to follow the recommendations of those individuals have used crossbows to successfully kill balloons at 100 yards. Hopefully there is no other weather factors that would affect the arrow flight, from the time you sighted in the crossbow. I don’t even use a shotgun at that distance. I would have to have my Thompson center muzzleloader. I’m done, I can finally go hunting in 4 Days. Time to square away my equipment.