Jmny

You choose to present a comment on a prior post, ( offered your opinion) Concerning the legality of a crossbow in Ny was never specifield is correct. It was foolish of me to believe that because I posted in a forum called Hunting NY. Com under Deer Hunting, sub sections Bow Hunting and Crossbow(assume they forgot to include the word “Hunting “after crossbow). That my text would be dealing with deer hunting in Ny with legal weapon of either a bow, compound or crossbow. For that I apologize. By the way, I submitted basically the same text on both the bow “hunting “ and crossbow”????” Sections of the forum in an attempt to get both the responses from those that hunt both weapons and those that hunt only one. If they hunt only one, what’s their attitude towards those that choose the other weapon. To date crossbow hunters have failed to state anything negative about those that choose a compound probably because they havr hunted compounds for years. . But the different bows in each of the compound and crossbow sections wasn’t presented to empathize speed as a critical component of hunting but because many of the anti crossbow individuals cite speed and distance ( 100 yards) as their reasoning for their distain of implementing crossbows for the entire bow season. The majority of crossbow hunters have used compounds to hunt for many years. Some for longer than the diehard compound hunters have been alive. I have no problem with whatever weapon you choose to hunt, however I do have a problem with a compound hunter that actively participated in trying to restrict the use of crossbow for the entire archery season. Demonstrates an overt action on the part of a hunter to keep other hunters out of the woods. We now have a new brand of ANTI HUNTERS. Who would have thought from within our own ranks. Especially with hunting dwindling in numbers. Instead of opening different avenues to either retain our older hunters or interest young individuals to take up hunting. Unfortunately, there is that certain percentage of hunters that equate their hunting prowess with their masculinity. The irony of the train of thought “that others have to learn the way they did” is that it is having a direct correlation on the time Hunting, for those experienced hunters. Bottom line, choose the weapon you prefer, but don’t deny others the same choice. . Sort of reminds of the child that doesn’t get his way, and takes his ball and goes home. (,preventing others From enjoying the game).

If we are discussing legal hunting instruments it matters. Your response makes me question further discussion. If you want to illustrate a point to enhance your beliefs. Truthful facts count. That particular crossbow is easier to maneuver in a tree stand. But we’re talking about advantages and disadvantages of the compound vs crossbow and you present an illegal crossbow to make your point !!!! Yes it matters. Your desire to be a better hunter than those that use a crossbow is so strong, that you are using a non hunting instrument (NYS). As a crossbow hunter I’m willing to say your much more macho than I. My purpose for Hunting is limited to enjoying the peace and quite outside in nature, observing many different types of wildlife and taking a deer or two to fill the freezer with Venison. I have nothing to rove to anyone. I don’t care what other hunters use as long as it’s a legal instrument.

The bow in question, the ravine( picture) isn’t a legal hunting instrument in New York State.

Not pushing the need for fast bows. Only used the top five in each categiory to compare speed concerns with how fast and more accurate they are 0ver the compound bow. Both have there advantages and disadvantages. But when Hunting I’m not concerned with Foot pounds per second but foot pounds of energy at impact.

Let me quess you shoot aluminum or carbon arrows with a plus or minus .001 to .003 degree of straightness with a mechanical release, ( pull a trigger) probably some type of fancy pins, a stabilizer. So you buy additional mechanical devises to hold your bow steadier, use a release to pull hold the bow at fulldraw easier and longer, and eliminate rolling the string on release. Then you add sight pins to assist in aiming you me bow, as long as you anchor in the same place. Sorry you have to suffer the first 34 days of the season. Assume the reason you use the compound is it is the only way you can presently hunt that time of the year. i do have one question. Isn’t our responsibilities as hunters to use the most efficient tools available to insure a quick humane kill ? If so, why would anyone use longbow, recurve, or compound bow when the more accurate crossbow is available? I hunted compounds for many years. But 09 had a traumatic brain injury. Regained everything with exception to walk independently( walker) no longer hunt out of three stands only ground blinds with crossbow, muzzleloader, shotgun or rifle where allowed.. Had to buy UTV for transportation in and out of woods.To be honest at 63, don’t know how much longer I would have been using he compound, irregardless of my injuries. But really amazes me is that certain individuals feel threatened by others using a crossbow to hunt.

Answered your own question. The list is of the five fastest hunting bows ( compound and crossbows. in New York State . The Ravin isn’t legal to hunt deer in ny state. Really don’t know the other state regulations.

The five fastest compound bows are: (liveoutdoors.com/hunting/236815-fastest-compound-bows) 1) PSE Full Trottole -370 fps 2) Matthews Halon - 353 fps 3) Hoyt Carbon Defiant Turbo - 350fps 4) Bear Escape - 350 fps 5) Elite Impulse 34 - 350 fps The fastest compound can project a arrow down range to 40 yards in .324 of a second. Now compare this to top five crossbows: 1) Scorpvdx Vtec - 440 fps 2) Barnett Ghost 415 - 415 fps 3) Barnett Ghost 410 - 410 fps 4) Excalibur Matrix mega 405 - 405 fps 5) Mission MBX 400 - 400 fps The fastest crossbow can project an arrow downfield to 40 yards in .272 of a second. That is .052 of a second faster, 52 thousandths of a second faster than a compound. And that is the biggest gap in foot speed for the corresponding numbered fastest in both the crossbow & compound bow speeds. 2) 415 - 353, 3) 410 - 350, 4) 405 - 350 and finally the fifth fastest in each category is 400- 350 fps.

I believe the towns are more sensible than than the state with regard to how they view the differences of a recurve, compound / crossbow. The state I believe in an effort to take more money out of your pocket request the compound owner to possess both archery and muzzleloader license to use a cross bow to hunt an extremely limited part of the deer season. The state deer hunting regulations would have nothing to do with the town regulations. If discharging a bow is allowed per town ordinance you should have no problem. Of course, I wouldn’t want to mislead you. So verify my info with the town. (Is it legal to target shoot a crossbow in the town boundaries?)

Great point, Doc

3. Use a muzzleloader, quick repetitive shots aren't happening . Don't shoot at moving deer( don't want adrenaline pumping through the deer muscles when I shoot the deer). Because of time necessary for second shot, virtually important to make the first shot count (kill shot). Before tracking after original shot, reload tube of powder and sabot and replace primer. In case I need to put a finishing shot into the animal. Restricting my shot scenarios has increased my effectiveness. Also get better tasting venison. Plus it lessens my chance of mistakenly having anyone in line of fire. While I give up opportunities at taking deer on the run, I will never have to live the consequences of firing a swinging barrel without verification of the backdrop. Plus there is a plus to having a scope on you muzzleloader in an open field situation, ( extends your kill range). Years ago I invited a fellow worker ( 10 yrs younger) to hunt my family land. Fortunately, met his dad over cocktails. Orior to opening day, and in the story telling learned that took 4 boxes of slugs to hunting camp for long weekend, and went through all five boxes. Needless to say, the next working day had to rescind the invitation,

??? Entire antlerless system across the state should be on the lottery system open to all hunters??? Explain? Thought it was

Doc, as I stated,appreciate your oversight of my postings. Hate to struggle pecking away my message only to post something that is difficult for an individual to comprehend my train of thought. As is, something posted yesterday by Gjs4. He mentioned an article that interested me, but failed to state were the article could be found. "DEC accepting outgoing NY commentary to an unopened email account-be prepared to get aggravated in 2017" By the way, Larry thank you for injecting a variable that I have overlooked in the state limiting deer take in certain DMP's, with antlerless only for the first couple weeks of the archery season. If Gjs4 or anyone that has the location of the article, I'd appreciate a reference.

Doc, as I stated,appreciate your oversight of my postings. Hate to struggle pecking away my message only to post something that is difficult for an individual to comprehend my train of thought. As is, something posted yesterday by Gjs4. He mentioned an article that interested me, but failed to state were the article could be found. "DEC accepting outgoing NY commentary to an unopened email account-be prepared to get aggravated in 2017" By the way, Larry thank you for injecting a variable that I have overlooked in the state limiting deer take in certain DMP's, with antlerless only for the first couple weeks of the archery season. If Gjs4 or anyone that has the location of the article, I'd appreciate a reference.

That heavens for the air rifles. They along with the possibility of muzzleloader during archery season has served to negate some of the scrutiny that crossbow hunters have been subjected to, mine you not from anti hunters, but the purist that believe only their style of hunting is ethical and requires masterful skills to be successful. Now, One would think we're talking about that group of archery hunters that use longbows or recurves with no let off, fingers/not releases,shoot instinctively,not with sights and not with wooded or even aluminum arrows. But that would be incorrect, The negative feedback is coming from the compound archers. Apparently only the technical advancements that they utilize on their bows is acceptable manner to take deer( mechanical releases, 80% let off, carbon arrows, etc.) Now it is the air rifles user's turn.( pending passage). It would be so easy to jump on board with the many that have chosen to take a negative attitude towards the use high powered air rifles without understanding the basic principles of this weapon. Which after limited research, I believe most of the na sayers have done. Now if the na sayers had a considerable amount of stock in a gun powder company, it would be understandable. Other than that, I don't see the negative side. It's not a super weapon,fps of about 1000fps, fpe of 250, ballistic characteristics close to a slug shotgun less than a rifle. About the only difference is the lack of noise after pulling the trigger. The positives no kick upon discharge, which will result in more humane killshots (no anticipating kickback) and relatively quiet. More of a chance at second shots if needed. The only downside is the price.( roughly $800-$2000.

Interesting subject. And to be quite honest, as I read this posting, a smile crosses my face. I'm actually seeing a partial transformation of public opinion on the use of the crossbow. A lot of the compound bow hunters that were diametrically opposed to the use of crossbows during archery season have come full circle in their opinions of crossbow use in the archery season. Apparently, us crossbow users are less of an intrusion on their god given right to have the public hunting lands to themselves. It took the possibility of opening part of archery season to muzzleloader. Apparently, to some of the compound bow hunters, the thought of sharing the woods with a gun user, from a noise and safety perspective, is less favorable than with with a crossbow hunter. Well as someone that has owned an archery tag for in excess of thirty years. I didn't appreciate the fact that my ability to continue to hunt, when I found it necessary to change from a compound to crossbow, met with resistance from the compound acher community. So much so, that the state of New York decided my Xbox was to be considered a gun during the first part of the archery season then miraculously becomes an archery tool for the latter part of the season. It's almost worth tolerating gun hunters during my archery season(payback), but I hunt private land.

Doc Thank you for pointing out my inconsistencies in the vocabulary/grammer of my posting. Of course my initial response was defensive. I could blame my accident and the resulting traumatic brain injury (19 day coma,3 months in patient hospital status and three month out patient rehabilitation to recover everything but my ability to walk. But that would be to easy and incorrect. But my 6 1/2 years of basically staring at four walls( except when a friend or family member can take me fishing or hunting) were an indirect influence on my posting. The real culprit is my laziness. I should always re-read my messages before posting. So to make my post more grammatically correct and easier to comprehend. It's time for the hunters of the state to speak out concerning the mishandling of over population of does in certain DMP's, by making those management areas, antlerless only for a portion of the archery and muzzleloader seasons. The 2015 implementation of antlerless only served to take hunting days away from a percentage of hunters. Don't believe it will accomplish its intended goal. Instead of adapting a new rule that punishes (restricts) hunters, they should establish a new rule that provides incentive to the hunters to take a doe or two. The fact his there are a percentage of hunters that don't believe the taking of antlerless are necessary to maintain a healthy herd. Or,whose misplaced sense of worth as a hunter is only qualified by taking of an eight point or better deer. So, my recommendation would be, in DMP's that have an over population of antlerless deer, set up a program were taking two antlerless deer would qualify a hunter to receive an additional either sex tag for the late season or a newly formed seven to fourteen days added to the current late season. Intellectually I believe this would provide more of an incentive to hunters in the effected DMP's to take anterless deer. As a DMP unit comes into the desired buck/doe ratio, the incentive for that DMP would be rescinded the following year. In closing, I hope that all concerned hunters take the time to address the DEC's request for input. Don't want to suffer through another experience of letting a trophy buck walk by because it wasn't legal to shoot. Follow up, Please John M Doc, If, I was going to be called out on my laziness for submitting a grammatically flawed posting, at least it was by the person that I enjoy reading the most on this site. Your postings are the most thoughtful and well written. And it is always a pleasure to read.(although initially, this one was hard to accept) As far a length of posting, lack of mobility, being contained within four walls( lack of social interaction) probably attributes to my lenthy postings. My apologies to all with a short attention span. Of course the length of the posting is visible prior to the decision to read. So, if length of posting is important, just skip it.

It is time for the hunters of the stateless out concerning the mishandling of the overpopulation of does in certain counties by making those management area, antlerless only for a portion of the archery season. The implementation of this 2015 ruling only served to take hunting days away from a percentage of hunters. Don't believe it accomplished its intended goals. Instead of adapting a new rule that punishes(restricts) hunters, they should establish a new rule that provides incentive to the hunters to take a doe or two. The fact is there are those hunters that don't believe the taking of does are necessary to marry brain a healthy herd. Or whose misplaced sense of worth as a hunter is only qualified by the taking of eight point or better buck. So, my recommendation would be in dump that have an overpopulation of antlerless deer, set up a programmers the taking of two antlerless deer would qualify a hunter for a second antlerless deer either in late season, or a newly established (week,10days or 2week season). Intellectually, I believe this would provide more of an incentive hunters in the affected dump to take antlerless deer. As the dump comes into the prescribed buck/ doe ratio the incentive for that dump would be rescinded the following year. In closing, I hope all concerned hunters take the time to address the DEC request for input. Don't want to suffer through another season of watching a trophy walk by because it's illegal to shoot Follow up (please) John McGough

As a limited hunter, I have chosen to use a crossbow during the bow season . Correction during that part of the early bow season that the crossbow is allowed as a bow.After TRANSFORMATION from being considered a muzzleloader the first 20 days of bow season. And I thought transformers were a child cartoon. It is self evident that I lack the apptitude that is needed to be elected into political office. Back to the question, Can I have in my possession both my crossbow and muzzleloader in my ground blinds. Would like the oppurtunity to use the crossbow bow for 30 yards in shots and the muzzleloader at longer distance. I have paid for both the muzzleloader and archery permits. It is both the muzzleloader and bow season. So it would be lawful to use either. I know that the first part of the deer season( archery) it is illegal to be afield with a gun, while bow hunting. But I haven't been able to find anything addressing my question, (probably because it would be very difficult carrying both weapons in the field). But as a limited hunter( can't walk) I use an atv to get to my ground blind. Any body have any feedback, knowledge on this subject?

If I believed that to be true, I wouldn't have wasted my time responding. I was attempting to locate an old posting that I recalled this individual making from the past. And have made contact with the lease representative Market value? Believe that has been established by the fact they have sold out all available leases the last two years and the 2016 season.

It's a service that is available to those that would like to utilize. Really don't understand the need of individuals to respond negatively. As soon as you decided it wasn't for you, the back button on your computer/ipad/cell should have been hit and move on. I have no personal desire to know all the people's negative opinions on the lease. As an adult, I'm quite capable of evaluating the offer on my own, then moving on, if it doesn't attract me or placing message / call if I'm interested. It is my belief that repetitive negative comments, will eventually discourage the listers to stop posting. Thereby hurting the percentage of members that could benefit from the lease agreements. Plus it's just good manners and a sign of maturity to treat other people with respect.

I try not to personalize my remarks, but I can't believe anyone would be left in the dark with whom my comments were directed too. Ninety five percent of my comment is directed to compound fanatics that are opposed to having crossbow bow hunters in the woods. And the root of that resentment is based in selfishness. They want an extended parcel of public land to themselves. One would think that these individuals with their adamant want of isolation as far as deer hunting is concerned, would have bought their own private land. And it is extremely quizzical to me why they haven't? Unless their station in life doesn't afford them the opportunity to make purchases that bring them so much joy. That was the situation my dad was in, back in the mid seventies. But he did the leg work,found a farmer willing to sell him some acres on a land contract with further acreage held for further purchase pending completion of the existing contract. So,if sharing the woods with others is a major concern of any of you, solve your problem by getting up and following your desire to have your own piece of hunting property. Instead a majority of these compound enthusiast decided it would be cheaper to have less hunters in the areas by denying other hunters the opportunity to hunt. Very friendly of you all. By the way, who is doing the forcing?? By the way, most cross bows shoot between 300-350 fps. And there are compounds with 80% let off and 350-366 fps. Another fallacy that I see quoted is that if crossbows were allowed during the whole archery season the woods be infiltrated with ex gun hunters shooting wildly into the woods wounding deer. How convenient to use fear, as others have done over the years, to intimidate their fellow archers. Believe other groups, cults,racial groups (KKK,BLACK PANTERS,HITLER) etc Have,also used fear successfully.. It would be so refreshing if the compound enthusiast would realize that a high percentage of the would be crossbow deer hunters have the same ethical traditions that the majority of all hunters possess. Quite a number of these crossbow hunters, hold archery stamps( or at least have taken and successfully passed archery certification ) myself I used,a compound when the Martin bows were in the upper echelon of speed, and 50,% let off was standard. But a combination of age and unfortunate circumstances halted my archery hunting for four years. But the use of crossbows in Ohio gave me the opportunity to bow hunt again. Fortunately for me, I had relatives,and friends that decided to join me, even though it entailed additional expenses( non resident license, lodging and other travel expenses) and a 5 hour car trip. You see, I couldn't have done this alone, My unfortunate circumstance was a motor vehicle accident in which I sustained a traumatic brain injury. After 18 days in a coma, ten weeks of hospitalization and 3 months of outpatient rehab. I decide to take advantage of the ohio archery season and the use of a cross bow. So I bought a crossbow, Polaris ranger,Reinhardt rhinobrute target. But I still was,unable to go alone. I recovered most of my facilities with the exception of walking independently( without a rollator). So you see, if you actually think lowly of anyone that chooses a crossbow to hunt, you will have absolutely no respect for me as a hunter. Of The last five deer I have killed, not one did I track, more astoundingly I never field dressed any of those deer. Always had a friend or relative willing to do both services for me. Thank heavens I took the time and effort to teach them how to both services years ago. I hesitated to include this in my posting, not because it embarrasses me but I hate that it reinforces in small minds that crossbow choice is ok for those elderly or handicapped. I believe the crossbow is an acceptable means of harvesting deer as evident by the statistics I have delineated earlier. And to those that are still unable to comprehend my desire for full inclusion into the whole archery season, I wish you the financial means that allows you to afford your deer hunting dreams( ownership of private land.

Oh, how funny. I use to enjoy reading your posting, even if I disagreed with your train of thought. They were well written and a pleasure to read. But you have taken a big liberty with this one. In particular I refer to the last two paragraphs of your latest posting As far as the attitudes of proponents of crossbows I will not attempt to speak for the group of individuals. Unlike others on this forum I can only speak for myself. But you first point couldn't be more truthful. It's not which type of bow you use, but our inclusion. It would extend my hunting season. Then you actually attempt to equate a long bow,recurve and compound as requiring " those nasty shooting form requirements" Has the history of the bow been revised? The longhorns were extremely difficult to draw and hold at full draw. Can't remember the use of shooting triggers to insure a consistent release. For that matter, or sights every ten yards to assist in aiming point. Or carbon arrows, advanced broadheads ( sharper and reduced weight) . They also didn't stabilizers to assist with the keeping the bow still for the shot and follow up after discharging the weapon. And what was speed of the arrow flight? And now for all you guys who equate using a compound with it somehow be more manly, can't remember a long bow having any let off. LET ALONE THE 80% that is now available. How you can equate the three forms of bow as requiring those same nasty shooting form requirements. "Actually the desire to force themselves", you apparently have never been forced. I believe it is our desire to be included not denied the privilege for 38 days to appease the children that want the woods to themselves. Sort of like the kid who owned the basketball the other nine guys were using. I'm sure you remember the childish behavior that if something didn't go his way he would take his ball and go home. " Pretty rifle like" really? I'm not going to refer to rifle statistics basically because I don't know them or have the desire to look them up. Nor do I have any desire to mislead any members with false information. But I do shoot what is one of the fastest bows on the market the has an 185 draw weight fires a 400 grain arrow at 410 fps with a 149 pounds of kinetic energy. Now I'm aware that these days there are numerous compound bows,available that have 80 % let off and arrow speeds of 350-366 fps. Now my 12 gauge shotgun shooting a 300 grain hornady sst slug has the following Muzzle 2000 fps and 2664 foot pounds of energy 50 yds 1816 fps and 2196 foot pounds of energy 100yds.1641 fps and 1793 foot pounds of energy Muzzleloader: 50 cal 250 grains sst-ml Muzzle - 2250 fps/ 2735 kinetic energy 50 yrd- 2031fps/ 2290 kinetic energy 100 yrd- 1852fps/ 1904 kinetic energy Rifle; 30 06 150 grain sp; Muzzle: 2910 fps, 2820 foot pounds of energy 100 yd: 2637 fps, 2317 foot pounds of energy Crossbow ( second fastest on market) as far as I know. Right after the arrow clears the bow 410fps-149 foot pounds of kinetic energy So, where is the similarity between the Crossbow and either the shotgun or rifle??????? Your ability to express yourself in writing doesn't equate with your ability to comprehend. There is no way that you can justify placing the crossbow in in any season but the bow. Then the muzzleloader, pistol,shotgun and rifle would be in the gun season. Probably explains why the name of the weapon ends with the word bow

Thanks you for taking the time to direct the question to those responsible for enforcing the rules and regulations of deer hunting in NYS. And thanks for supplying the reference of the material. But as Doc stated hearsay is just that hearsay. I could deny anything I have said in the past as long as there was no written record. So it behooves anyone that envisions a subject coming into question to have a written reference to supply the enforcement officer or judge.

That is a quality mount, let alone a first attempt, at mounting your own deer. Imagine you will have to get your future bucks early in the coming seasons also. Have the feeling you just started another business venture that will keep you very busy. Congrats,on the harvest of the deer and also on the quality of your initial attempt at mounting your harvest. Got a funny feeling you will be getting quite a few request from prospective paying customers.