Jmny

Interesting twist on your wording. Justifying your receipt of government assistance( monies) What is a subsidy? A monetary assistance granted by the government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as BEING IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. So do you think the police,fire,city,town,county,state,federal employees,and farmers hold a job that is financed by TAXPAYER DOLLARS because it is regarded as BEING in the public interest? The difference is only a weekly/biweekly payment or a yearly payment. By the way anyone that has referred to the DEC paying any farmer for lost/ damaged crops back it up with proof, reference to where it can be found. As far as I'm able to comprehend any offset for low crop production for a number of reasons, is financially offset by the FEDERAL government. The only thing the DEC can do for the farmers is,after verifying crop loss and overpopulation of dear herd issue DDP( deer damage permits). See DDP ( New York State, DEC.) As,stated earlier only for use in non season, are only suppose to be used to take doe. However if you accidentally shoot a buck, you now have to notify the DEC and fill out extensive paperwork. So, you won't receive a large fine when you mistakely shoot a buck. But the state will come to your farm, and take the antlers. One must understand the following two points: the farmers don't hunt during the day with DDP's, that conflicts with work to maintain their farm and would be met with limited success. Most of the culling of the herd is done at night when the deer are causing damage to their crops and taken with rifles by head shots. The farmers usually don't have the time or energy to track wounded deer Most of the time it's either instead death or a miss. The second point really addresses the use of DDP. If a farmer was to remove a buck he would only remove one deer from the next year's population. If he shoots a doe, he would remove two but more likely three deer the doe and fawn(s) from next year's population. Now if your suffering a monetary lost, which would you shoot? Also, if farmers weren't allowed to take DDP's we as hunters would be subject to an extended antlerless only bow season. Instead of missing and moaning about the farmers, take the time to meet the farmers and offer to assist in something on their farm( something you might have experience or knowledge of) develops a relationship with the farmer where he,has,an opportunity to see your character, then maybe he will grant you the opportunity to hunt his land, thereby reducing the deer herd further. Check, you might even be invited to fill some DDP 's out of season. Basically, rumors can be started VERY easily in this day of multi media, but verify the information reported as fact. One other scenario, if the deer are owned by the state? Which is how the state justifys charging a fee to shoot hunt them, would the individual farmers be able to file lawsuits,against the state for deer damage and monetary lost? Probably cheaper to use the present system instead of retaining lawyers to represent the every DMP THOUGHOUT THE STATE.

Wow. Let's think, are there any other professions,we as tax payers underwrite? How about law enforcement officers, fire fighters, teachers,counselors, and all other town,city,county, state employees. The IRS, There are so many individual occupations that we as taxpayers support. You brought up an interesting point construction workers. Are we talking about these guys that work for a company that is supported by winning bids that are paid by the taxpayers? And how mAny of the construction workers do you know that actually are on unemployment roles for a large portion of the winter? I have known many that do over the years. So why have you choose the farmer as the object of your frustrations? I know it isn't borne from the fact they have taken the risk(monetary investment)of purchasing the land,equipment to make a living. Maybe it's they own land that deer inhabit and you can't get permission to hunt?? How many of those reading this post have driven by a group of construction workers were a minority are working and the majority are watching the minority? But I realize that when they are actually working their job can be difficult and exhausting. It would be so easy to make the assumption that they were just making a living off the backs of hard-working tax payers, but to do so would be so shortsighted on my part. Finally, if you believe the farmers have it that easy, become one. Summon up the courage and finances to take that tax payer backed occupation as yours. You can have it made as you believe they do. Now there doe's come a time when certain farms become so large that they can take advantage of government assistance just like any other large corporation or union does. Remember greed is the biggest incentive.

Yes I read the post. Back when I could hunt out of treestands, I would hang them about 20-25 yards off an active deer trail or the intersection of two trails from a food source to a bedding site. After picking out an appropriate tree and securing the stand, I would then make sure I had a couple of unobstructed shooting lanes. Next would be to mark out the approximate shooting distances of 5 and 10 yards before the trail.( 10-15, or 15-20) I always found it advisable to accomplish all variables concerning hanging my treestand at one time, weeks before the season, so that I would keep scent to a minimum and be all ready for the coming season. But you have decided to personalize your posting by referring to me as a Idiot. That I might be, but I'm not a gullible Idiot. As stated previously " to each their own"

Interesting why someone would want a Rangefinder that works in the dark. I each their own. Must be raccoon hunters using a bow.

Wow, poor farmers being subjected to to the wrath of some hunters. The state government to my limited knowledge doesn't pay farmers for crop lost. Believe that is a national policy that was voted on by congress? Now, do you think the purpose of this policy has Something to do with the security of this country? The amount of food this country produces not only allows the USA,to be self sufficient, but feeds numerous other countries. Now what kind or retention of farmers would we have, if the federal government didn't have some form of blanket in place to offset when farmers crops were poor due to a condition beyond their control? How many would be forced into bankruptcy? Maybe those individals that seem to have a vehement disregard for the plight of the farmers should acquaint themselves with the cost of farming equipment. If your the type of person that has difficult comprehending let's make it easier. You decide to build a large garden on your property to offset the cost of having a family. Of course you can do all of this by hand or small tools. Now a group of STATE owned deer come onto your property and destroy your garden. Well your going to have to reassess your budget. But this is only on a small scale, no one counts on you to feed the rest of the country. Nor do you have the financial liability of carrying loans on all your expensive farm equipment. The dear problem is only one concern for the farmer. Then their is the weather. To much rain, not enough rain, early warm spell, or a late cold spell. They all can hurt your production and earnings. Now even before you can start your farming endeavor, you need to purchase a good plot of land or lease some. And by the numbers of deer hunters on this forum complaining about state land and owners of farms that don't hunt, you would think the answer to their problems would be to purchase a 30-100 acre plot. Apparently they aren't in a financial position to do so. So is it the compensation for crops or the commonly referred to nuisance permits that irk a small percentage of hunters? Hunters believe the farmers are killing all the good bucks in the area. Fact, farmers must substantiate ( proof) of their loss. Dec evaluates herd size. Done easily at night as they feed on the farms. There are two important aspects of nuisance permits that farmers are given after justifying damages and overpopulation of resident herd. Those being they can only shoot DOE'S. And they can't be used in the hunting season. Usually the DEC give the farmers some DMP to utilize during season.

I also had a physical reason for seeking out the crossbow. Suffered TBI, recovered everything but my ability to stand and walk unassisted. So I purchased a crossbow, cranking devise, and a cauldwell field pod. Now I continue to enjoy my time in the woods from a ground blind. Now if we could get the powers to be in NY to consider it a bow rather than muzzleloader. With compounds putting out arrows in the 350 fps and top echelon of crossbows a little over 400. But now you understand how this country can be discombobulated, common sense vs deep pockets. MIght as well throw in special interest groups.

Ever since my accident and crossover to a crossbow I have been using a Caldwell dead shot. This is absolutely a fantastic rest/ shooting rest . Now before I'm subjected to all the self righteous comments from hunters that tend to feel either their ability to be an accomplished hunter or their manliness are based on he traditional ways of hunting, I have limited mobility( standing and walking unassisted impossible) but to e honest any hunter that has concern to put a kill shot on the deer should be using one of these. I have incorporated the field pod into my muzzleloading And will if I ever shotgun hunt or rifle hunt again. The rest sets up with adjustable legs. Adjustable length weapon holders to accommodate various weapons. You have 360 degree swing area to scope in your prey. Caldwell sells it in three different application Called fieldpod, treepod, chairpods.

Barnett Ghost 410 Hawke scope 22" Black eagle zombie slayers 100 grain Rage crossbow "extreme"

I've noticed a lot of resentment towards landowners, As someone that hunted state land for the first 12 years of my adult hunting life I am extremely aware of the problems that arise with hunting state land. The primary concern was safety. Being in the woods with inexperienced hunters that shoot at running deer, unloading their guns. Then there were those that had no problem mixing hunting with alcoholic beverages. Then you had to worry about another hunter walking through the area you've been stump sitting for an extended period of time. It became abundantly clear if we (family) wanted to improve our hunting environment we would need to purchase land. So, if your disgruntled with your hunting situation, time to step up to the plate and become a land owner. Get together with your relatives and close friends and buy a parcel of land together. Splitting the cost of ownership with all that will derive the benefits of hunting private land is the way to go. A secondary solution would be acquiring a lease for exclusive rights to hunt a particular parcel of land. Expense varies depending much much work you want to put into it. You can enlist the services of someone else that takes the time to research the prospective landowners to see if they might be interested in leasing the hunting rights. Or you can invest your time and money into researching the owners of certain parcels( platt maps) and making a phone call followed up with a personal appearance, agreed during the prior phone conversation. Be prepared to offer $10-$25 per acre for exclusive rights to hunt the land. Other than that there are other alternative to avoid the crowded state land. It's been my experience that hunters,that take to state land only hunt the acreage that is relatively close to a road. In fact I would suggest that 70-85 % of the hunters,are within 200-300 yards of the road. Another way to alleviate hunting pressure is to change the days you hunt. Saturday is the heaviest hunted day of the week followed by Sunday. Allow the deer to reestablish their normal activity Monday and tuesday then hunt Wednesday and Thursday. Yes it is true you pay the price (inconvience) for being unable to financially afford buying or leasing land. When looking to acquire permission to hunt land make sure the owner of the land resides on the land. This individual will be more likely to grant permission. The land owner might look favorable to leasing hunting privileges to responsible hunters.(helping to offset their taxes,,especially if they don't hunt the land themselves).

There is one MAJOR point of distinction that's being overlooked. And that is "FREE WILL". Basically to compare a hunter that had the ability to shoot a deer of his choice( providing a dmp permit was acquired) But forfeited that right, (by taking a buck that apparently was considered a shooter by that hunter) and HIS INABILITY TO SHOOT A BIGGER BUCK LATTER IN THE SEASON, WAS A CHOICE MADE BY THE HUNTERR( not DEC). Those hunters in the anterless only DMP's don't have that FREEDOM of choice. I personally have no problem taking a doe or two( maybe even 3 or 4) depending on availability of second chance permits in my DMP and the success of my fellow hunting buddies.) But , I'm not about to go into the woods without the ability to shoot a buck that meets my requirements as to whether it's a shooter. THE DEC HAS INSTITUTED A HUNTING POLICY THAT HAS STRIPPED THE HUNTERS IN THE ANTERLESS ONLY DMP OF THEIR FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Now, let's examine what group of hunters they have placed these restrictions on? Basically you have two separate groups. Those hunters that would never shoot a doe. So, the DEC policy could effect these hunters, but I believe the a greater percentage of these hunters would travel to non affected DMP For those first 15 days. The second group affected would be those hunters that have already choosen to assist the DEC in deer management by "PAYING" extra for the"PRIVILEGE" to help. And how does the DEC repay these hunters for their assistance and the extra monetary compensation? "TAKE THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE FROM THESE HUNTERS". So, they have paid additional monies to assist the DEC in deer management but in doing so, involuntarily gave up their right to shoot any deer of their choice. What are the possible results of this new,in my opinion, ill conceived policy? Don't believe those that those hunters that refuse to shoot does will change their hunting attitude. Then there is a possibility that those that have in the past, chose to assist the DEC, will not purchase DMP permits. Or, a record number of DMP Permit kills will be reported.( Both true and untrue). So much for reliable feedback from the hunters. Common sense tells me that if I want to address the problem of aver abundance of antlerless deer in an area, I would be smarter to appeal to those that have already exhibited a desire to take does. To be honest I would provide the incentive to the part of the hunting season that is the least limited. That would be the gun hunters. Now when? There a couple ways that come to mind. The most effective would be a week of special antlerless only, one week prior to opening of bow season. (Wow, irritated a few hunters with that suggestion). But, I don't believe restricting this,week to muzzleloader would obtain the desired results. So labeling it as gun season, would include whatever weapon you choose to hunt) Finally configured a possible incentive for non antlerless hunters to contemplate a change in their hunting philosophy,which would assist in,bringing the effected DMP back into the management objectives, thereby eliminating the need for a special early gun season for that DMP. Having the special one week antlerless only season before the bow season instead of after the late bow/muzzleloader season? Two and a half months to determine if another special week of antlerless only is needed in certain DMP's. By the way, losing your ability to take a buck the first 15 days of deer season is all the incentive one needs to voice their negative opinion concerning antlerless restrictions in DMP's. I would believe the only people in support of this antlerless only policy , would be those uneffected. But my opinions are just that opinions. I don't attempt to state factual information. Nor, do I chastise those that have an opinion different than mind. But that might change when I achieve status of elite hunter.. Just my donation to the " food for thought"

Responding to the " this has already been done before comment. " Really? Has a large majority of hunters actually felt the repercussions of not applying for a DMP permit? There are two alternatives, don't hunt until the antler less only period has expired. This year it was 15 days, next year it could be 3 weeks eventually it could be the entire bow season depending on how out of whack the buck to doe ratio is in a specific DMP and estimated carrying capacity for the DMP Or the hunters could join in the process of getting their specific DMP buck/ doe ratio in line with the carrying capacity of that DMP and again be able to partake in the the full hunting seasons without the NEGATIVE restriction of Anterless only.. It would be extremely ignorant of hunters not to learn from this experience this year, with reference to Anterless only. Yes there are many ways to address the problem in a POSITIVE manner, doe only gun week at end of season. Or extend the bow only hunting season in the effected dmp's to January15 th. It's a constant practice in Ohio ( season goes until early February and starts late September. In fact believe NY offers special hunting season in over populated areas. Seems the southern area between Seneca and Cayuga lake had a late season archery the last year or two. There is a working solution available, just have to find it, might have to be by trial and error, But the goal should be to avoid implementing asinine restrictions on the people that pay their salaries. Or maybe they should just make the restriction of Anterless only STATEWIDE. Let the whole community of NY hunters get a first hand experience of being mandated to pass every buck you see for the First 15,21,28,35, 42 days of the season.

That is a good point. But for every problem there is a solution. First and foremost I would eliminate the "can't shoot a buck" philosophy. The reality of the situation is there are a percentage of hunters both bow and gun that won't shoot a doe. There is some false sense of being a more accomplished dear hunter by shooting a buck. Now, a small percentage of those hunters that refuse to shoot does indeed are trophy hunters. The rest take bucks that aren't that impressive as far as trophy is concerned. Most would be surprised to find that their trophy buck scores 120- 130 inches. And I don't know if deer antlers are some form of aphrodisiac? I've yet to know someone eating venison to be able to identify the sex of the venison they were consuming Now to address the incentive to take a doe. The easiest incentive would be to allow two does per DMP permit. This would only take a second date on the current tagging procedure. What would this do? First it controls the doe harvest to areas experiencing an over abundance of antlerless deer. But more importantly it puts the second opportunity in the hands of those hunters that have already expressed a desire to shoot doe's by paying an additional fee to do so(dmp permit) . Sounds like a no brainer to me. Yes there are those that would only be motivated if they could take a second buck. Then you would have those opposed to taking a second buck. Now, if I was able to come up with this solution by myself in a very short period of time,( and not penalize the hunters in those effected DMP's with anterless only) Why can't the powers to be in the DEC come up with comparable solution. No INCREASE IN THE COST OF DMP'S NEEDED. The purpose of the addition number of dmp permits is to achieve the carrying capacity of the DMP's in question. Not figure a way to take more financially from the hunter.

I have made a couple of post vehemently disagreeing with the DEC decision to make DMP with excessive number of doe's antlerless only. I believe it was a short sighted correction adjustment. While I generally agree with the DEC and their difficult decision to maintain the deer population at acceptable levels for all concerned. (Hunters, insurance companies,homeowners, farmers, carrying capacity of particular section of land, etc.) An over population of deer can cause damage to motor vehicles, landscapes of those individuals that live in the suburbs, crops that the farmers are growing ( on their private land or leased land) By the way, these farmers are trying to sustain a business that feeds their family( and many others.) But the primary responsibility of the DEC should be to the deer herd. Set the population goals in line with the carrying capacity of the land( browse,feed). Unfortunately, many hunters become enamored with the deer shows,and videos available to the public. They strive to have the same environment that these tv personalities enjoy. Don't believe I've ever saw a sub 150 class buck taken. Well they all own a couple 300 to 1000 acre hunting farms. Or hunt on restricted trophy leases. So, how do we as hunters get to experience similar hunting experiences? Time to buy large chunks of land or purchase trophy hunts One question I would appreciate answered, how does New York State pay the farmers? It's been mentioned numerous times on the site. Believe someone is spreading mis information. But look forward to someone enlightening me.

The changing of opening day from a Monday to Saturday was probably the most important single factor that dramatically slowed the lost of deer hunters. The ability to partake in opening day activities without missing work or burning limited vacation time was the assistance our young hunters(future of the sport..

Let me clarify a point, I' m one of those hunters that have chosen not to enter the woods until I possess the ability to shoot either sex. That choice was made because I didn't want to pass on a buck of a lifetime, if one presented a good kill shot oppurtunity. I, apparently unlike many other hunters have no quams in taking a doe. Meat in the freezer is my priority, I might even take a second doe. But I show some restraint in the size of a buck I take. It works for me. And that is the most important faucet of the way I hunt. I personally don't care what others think. Nor do I look down on anyone that has different hunting philosophy than me. To each their own. But this week end, the unnecessary restraints applied by the DEC powers to be are removed. Hopefully this hunter, that as no problem harvesting does will be able to do so, even though he missed 15 days of oppurtunity( due to the manner in which the dec addressed the overpopulation of doe's in certain DMP). And yes,I'm aware they didn't stop me from taking a doe the first 15 days. Just didn't want to be faced with a decision to remain a law abiding hunter or succumb to the desire to take a trophy buck and become a poacher. So, it doesn't shock me that a number of hunters that would have no problem shooting a doe, choose not to hunt the first 15 days. By the way, explin to me how a hunter that frowns on the taking of doe's justifies taking a buck I under 150 pt total score? Don't believe the antlers have turned into any type of culinary delicacy. But like I stated earlier to each their own.

I went from having to pull back a crossbow with a 185 # draw weight. To needing 17# of power to turn the cranking device.

That brings up a great point, before purchasing the crossbow pay attention to the length of the power stroke and draw weight. Not only the speed, Why buy a crossbow that you struggle to be able draw. And yes the cranking device has to be mounted on the compound. This device doesn't give you some type of advantage over doing it yourself by hand, with the exception it allows hunters that have physical limitations the ability to hunt independently. You don't need a fellow hunter to load your crossbow for you. It is a slow methodical process, making sure you attach both pulling devices the same distance from the point of center so that the string locks properly and upon release flies correctly. But speed isn't an attribute. As someone, that has had to make adjustments to continue to enjoy my outdoor activities, the crank cocking device gave me my independence back in reference to being able to crossbow hunt when I want. I'm also fortunate enough to have friends and family members to call to field dress my deer. What ? a guy that doesn't gut his own deer? In my case yes. Was involved in an automobile accident 3/09. In coma 19 days suffered traumatic brain injury, recovered everything but my ability to walk independently. Bought a Utv & crossbow and a couple blinds and started hunting from the ground. Plus the use of the rollator from car to atv, atv to blind. Just need a cell phone at all times.

Having hunted the last two years in Ohio, I know that to hunt private land you must possess a Ohio decision of wildlife form 75 " hunting, trapping, or fishing permit on private land" There is a box for daily and seasonal use. If it is daily there is a space for the length of days ex 11/5/15-11/10/15.( 6 days). Further there are boxes that show what activity you have been granted permission to be on the land. That both you and the land owners signs . Relinquishing landowner responsibility.

All hunters in the affected DMP units ( doe's only first 15 days of bow and then muzzleloader and late bow season) should learn the importance of taking a doe and reporting the kill to the DEC. Additionally the other DMP units that have a high doe ratio should try to avoid their DMP make the list in the future. The DEC should learn that addressing the areas that have more does than the area can successfully sustain, should not be negative in nature.(no shooting bucks). No hunter wants to spend time in the woods and be unable to shoot that buck of a lifetime when it is standing broadside within 20 yards. The fact that I believe all hunters In the effected buck only DMP's will be submitting a doe kill report this year ( whether or not that shot a doe) So much for the honest assistance the DEC had gotten from the hunters. But it would be ignorant to expect anything different as it was to expect the hunters to appreciate the negative manner in which they addressed the problem of over population of deer. An incentive to cull more does should have been established. Their attempt to increase the taking of does, by not allowing the hunter to shoot bucks was extremely short sighted. Instead the hunters just stayed home, drove to those DMP s without the buck only restriction. In the coming years we should be hearing from southern tier hunters complaining about lack of bucks. There is enough of poaching going on by non licensed individuals. . Why push the the law abiding license carrying hunter into that dilema of making a choice between remaining law abiding or becoming a poacher? Congratulations the the powers to be in NEW YORK STATE DEC.

That is without doubt a shooter.

Your hunting someone else's land and they have a rule that you must shoot a die before taking a buck. And your questioning this rule, How ungrateful. Hope a member of your new hunting buddies reads your post.. If they do, wouldn't be surprised to find you researching a new place to hunt. But hey, there is always state land Many hunters in the DMP areas that now only allow taking off does for the first 15 days have found out how important it is to take does and reporting their kills. If you have a problem with their rules decline the offer to hunt their land.

I m not serving alcoholic drinks. Age is irrelevant. Depends on the individual. This is a trophy buck for many. The question should be is this a shooter for me? And the answer is dependant on numerous factors. How much actual hunting time can you work into your family life? What is your biggest deer to date? Are you out for the venison? (hopefully your taking advantage of the does). But it could be a hunter, hunting for venison with limited time to hunt. Bottom line if they have the proper license or permits, you are entitled to that animal. Basically, if your manhood is commensurate on killing a 150 inch buck or better, reach into your wallet and book a leased hunt where shooting sub 150's incur an additional(penalty) charge. But the most interesting post I have seen on this forum, was by Deerpassion. In response to numerous hunters voicing their opinion on bypassing a nice 8 pointer. He stated he had done some extensive amount of scouting and was aware that there were numerous buck that were better than the one he passed up, that coupled with the fact that the season was only three days old, allotted him ample time to run across one of the bigger bucks. I believe it was two days later that he took a 13 pointer with mask and a high rack. ( not exactly sure, memory sluggish after you turn 60. If the deer is right for you, harvest it. If someone else's deer doesn't meet your standards, keep your mouth closed.

61 year old hunter, bass fisherman.( crappie and other panfish in winter and spring). Have learned to adapt to pursue my outdoor sports after motor vehicle accident(lost ability to walk independently).

the Mathews made crossbow? How cute to market under a subsidiary company. With a differen name" Mission" . Mathews gets a piece of the monetary market of the crossbow expansion, while keeping those compound Mathews bow hunters insulated from being associated with a company that makes " crossbows"

For me it's simple. Try different broadheads until you find one that flies well,out of your bow. And has the devastating effect on the animal your shooting. I found that the Rage 2 blade crossbow broadhead in 100 fly well out of my Barnett ghost 410. At a speed of approximately 400 fps and kinetic energy of 149, they fly extremely well, cut a good size hole, leave a fantastic blood trail that a person with limited vision could follow (usually a short distance). To be honest don't know if they open before or on contact. But the clean pass thru shots leaving a wide blood trail are much appreciated, The ability to group black eagle zombie slayer arrows tipped with 2blade 100 grain Rage crossbow broadhead and shoot a group three arrows in a quarter diameter (supported on a rest). Venison in the freezer, short tracking distance and consistency of flight are the qualities I look for in a broadhead. And lighted knock helps these old eyes follow the backside of the arrow in flight. Haven't figured out a way to see when the blades open. By the way, included in your 3 pack of broadheads is a practice broadhead to use when sighting( practice) in your bow. Everyone has their favorite broadheads with justified reasons. Believe the old saying " to each their own" is applicable Ps: the grouping is so tight, I only shoot one arrow at target and pull same before taking another shot at target