Death From Above

Sold...thank you.

Putting out a feeder is bringing the deer to a small particular spot to feed, which has a very small focus point. If a food plot was made that small, and had the ability to bring in deer to a similar very precise area, anything that grew in it would be gone within a day or two. They are not the same thing. Do you really need to spend tons of time to locate a spot to put down a bag of highly aromatic bait? Isn’t the bait you would buy valued at its ability to do that for you? I have a tough time believing that you can compare the two and not see the advantage of surprise that baiting CAN provide, along with the short cut many would take. Sure, I know that when you read the bag of “Throw and Grow” it tells you that you just need to throw it down and walk away, so there are varied levels of effort to each side of this debate. Most guys I see in Kansas and Ohio weren’t buying bulk bags of corn for long term baiting (which I realize some do), they were using small bags of stuff to put in front of their stands that didn’t have a mechanical feeder. Baiting provides much more opportunity for both surprise and guarantee of a working attractant when compared to plots. It is much simpler to utilize bait as a means to draw deer in front of you at a convenient time. I doubt people choose bait instead of plots because of the fact they are "just as good". They likely use it because it is easier, doesn’t require near the effort, they can do it land they do not own, and hopefully legal where they hunt. I will say once again that anyone who says “baiting and food plots work the same” likely does not have a lot of experience with food plots. Effort, time, expense, necessary equipment, time to yield a return are all drastically different. Buying a feeder and a pallet of corn is still much different than putting in food plots. Our clover plots feed deer all summer, and the brassicas provide lots of food they dig up in the winter long after deer season. So yes, I do believe it is different than someone who dumps corn out in a pile prior to and during the hunting season to put deer in front of them. I love the fact that my food plots are helping those deer make it through the winter with some extra food. If it gives the bucks a better chance to recoup after the rut then that is great too. If you prefer to do it with a feeder fine, except you’d be breaking the law in NY. I like the fact that I am using legal means to help the deer a bit if I can. Just because I love to hunt them doesn’t mean I can’t have intentions with my actions other than just improving my harvest potential. If both were legal in NY, we could choose which we'd like if we wanted to do one of them or both, but that is not the case. Many simply do not have the desire, the time, the equipment, the cash, or the land to put in their own plots. I know that was in fact my case for most of my hunting career. I wonder how much those factors play into many of the opinions that have been written on this thread when comparing two things that are not the same thing. Of course that is just MO.

I disagree. I feel that food plots and baiting are completely different. Food plots…they take a lot of time and effort to put in, and this does not go unnoticed to the deer. They can smell and sense the intrusion. For instance, it often takes one trip to spray, then another to cut, then another to spray again, a trip for lime/fertilizer, a trip to seed depending on how long you wait from the second spray, then maybe more for cutting or spraying a grass killer after the growth begins. The deer have had plenty of warning that this is a higher than normal traffic area for humans. Add card pulls at cameras and stand maintenance, and we have left proof of our presence quite a bit regardless of how careful we try to be. Believe me, deer adjust to this intrusion and its very similar to hunting over an ag field. The aroma of whatever might be planted in that food plot comes with the knowledge they already have of how much time we have spent in that general area. It just is not as simple to kill a deer in a food plot as many might think. I personally feel that many who disagree with this have not put plots of their own in before, or are watching the TV guys kill unmolested deer in the Midwest. For every picture of a deer in one of our food plots during daylight we likely have a dozen of deer in the dark. Believe me, food plots don’t make deer dumb, but I think baiting can make deer "dumber" at times. Baiting…it requires no prior entrance to the area, time, or much presence. Drop it off and hunt it for a couple days. I personally have never hunted over bait, but I have hunted in states like Ohio and Kansas that do allow it. Those guys don’t put it out to draw deer to it in the dark. They know they are putting a strong scent – AND A NEW SCENT – that draws them in in the daylight. If it draws does, bucks will follow. The deer have had no opportunity to become accustom to this change, they can be very unaware. It is definitely a short cut, and it can hit them at times when they are searching for food desperately when it is suddenly in much shorter supply. Yes, I have a good number of food plots, and almost all of them have stands over them or nearby. Funny that we rarely kill deer in them though. Our plots do help feed and hold deer, and I cannot argue that. Our neighbors may not like that, but they benefit directly from it whether they know it or not. I love the process of putting them in and maintaining them, as in a way it extends my hunting season or the preparation for it. But I don’t kill more deer because of them, and I don’t think it makes my hunting a lot easier. It is just fun, and I hope makes for a healthier deer we get to harvest. I don’t find a short cut in that scenario, but if I brought out a bag of corn and dumped it in front of my stand…that is completely different IMO.

I completely agree with all comments above, and I love the bow, but just don't need two of them. My E32 is a 2016 in Kuiu Verde, which was hard to find, hence the reason I am keeping that one. While it might be a tad faster than the Synergy, I wouldn't lie and tell you my Energy 32 is quite as smooth and as easy to shoot. Price includes shipment TYD, so if any of you want to buy yourself an early Christmas present...just let me know!

For sale is my 2015 Elite Synergy, RH, 60#, 29" draw mods, ninja black. Bought this bow as a back up for my E32, and for some extra target shooting, but just don't seem to find enough time to shoot both bows. Bow is in excellent shape, and the strings have plenty of life left in them. Asking $450 for bare bow. Will throw in Spot Hogg Tommy Hogg single pin site, the Trophy Taker rest, and Easton wrist sling with the bow for $625. Prices are TYD.

I have used the ones you linked above. Love them. No backing, never have to write on them again. Not one problem in more than six years. Just follow the instructions and leave some room for growth. Worse case scenario you loosen a screw if necessary. They are easy, lots of pre-drilled holes to place them on uneven or non-straight trees. At $1.25 each they aren't any more than the typical unmarked sign you buy at the hardware store. Ordered them online, had them at my door in less than a week. Great company, excellent product.

High grading? These same bucks that you are concerned about being removed as 3 or 4 year olds, or I'll even say 2.5's, would likely all be provided an extra one to three years to pass on those desirable genetics. Remember, he has the same genetic make up at 1.5 as he does at 5.5. We can't possibly know or guess what the genetic make up of what our harvest is. If the concern against not being able to shoot young bucks in NYs deer herd is high grading, then the aspirations for our deer herd are much higher than I could ever have for this state. Most deer, I would think, would be legal targets at 2.5, I'm just not sure most of those deer will be judged for potential before being harvested by many a hunter. I think valid arguments can be had in both sides of this conversation, but to broadly state that AR is proven not to work has more to do with the author's desire to see them put in place, or not. I haven't hunted Mississippi, but I've hunted Pennsylvania for more than 25 years. My experience and eyes tell me it works and I think most would agree it has achieved many of the goals they set forth. However, if you want to shoot any buck you see on PA, but can't, then you likely feel it has been a disaster. BTW, AR has been in place on PA for quite some time now, and I'm not sure the deer herd has been high graded quite yet.

Oh my, please tell me that was a joke. Genetics are genetics, you are born with them. They don't suddenly change or appear at a certain age. You can see better with age what they contain, but older deer don't always have better genetics. I'm sorry, but if that wasn't a joke it ironically contained the least common sense possible.

I hunt Pennsylvania with a rifle because I am only there for a couple days (first three of gun), I hunt state land, its the tradition I enjoy with friends at "deer Camp". I like to gun hunt for sure. I do occasionally make the opener in the southern tier and use a shotgun for that first day, but there again it due to the fact I don't hang stands there and the pinball feel of an opening day. I hunt the northern tier of NY with bow because I live there, have time to put in numerous food plots, have quite a few stands (around 50 stands on 500+ acres - not just me that hunts these properties), and I put a lot of time into scouting and monitoring way too many trail cameras. I enjoy the challenge of the bow and arrow harvest. If I see a deer with a gun in my hand it seems like 90% of the time I just have to decide if I want to shoot it or not. If I see a deer with a bow in my grip it can be at 10 yards and I still have no certainly that it might turn into a shot opportunity. Guess I love the excitement of that scenario. I also use the bow if I make trips to states like Ohio, Illinois or Kansas. The only reason I mentioned the fact of what I hunt with in the northern zone was just to be honest that I may have other reason that I dislike the crazy, ridiculously long gun season in the NZ.

I agree with this post 100%. I'd give just about anything to have a three week gun season up here in Jefferson county like the southern tier has. I grew up in the southern tier, and I hunted many seasons down there. I can certainly understand why some argue that the three week gun season is long when compared with many states. However, I'll never complain about that ever again, after spending the past 10-12 years here in the "northern zone" and witnessing the 9 weeks of gun season (two of which is muzzleloader). The gun season is WAY TOO LONG up here. We aren't talking about having to track down bucks in the Adirondacks snow to kill one. This is farm land just like down south. If our game laws are set and determined based on the supposed management of the herd as mentioned previously in this thread, I'd love to hear why there is a two week bow season followed by nine weeks of gun up here. There is no reason, explanation or necessity for the season structure here. For this reason I say YES, there is a very legitimate reason for some hunters (whether they be bow or gun hunters) to ask for shorter gun season. If the area has an unnecessarily pro-longed gun season, then I think its fine to be in favor of shortening the season. Disclaimer: I am a bow hunter, and I am a gun hunter. However, I have chose NOT to hunt deer in NY with my gun. Don't know if that makes me an elitist or not, I will let Stubby decide.

i run about 14 cameras but they are spread out on about 400 acres or so. I am a sucker for trail cameras on sale. Wish i could say that these cameras have consistently helped me kill the bucks i "target", but it isn't often the case. For me they are almost like another form of hunting, especially here in ny where you cannot set them in front of a pile of corn. I use them pre-season to "hunt" for some bucks i might be hunting during the season. I use them during the season to see how the deer are using the property, and then after the season to " hunt" for survivors. Can't bring myself to erase pics of mature bucks from years past. Guess im addicted to the fun i find in strategically placing camers to intercept deer on film, even though pure luck may play a lot more into than id wish.

If you want to hunt the stand more than one or two times, then I would put one other item at the top of your list when considering where to put the stand. Personally, I choose access to the stand as the #1 priority. I’d look for a spot that lets you get in and out without alerting too many deer. If you put a stand in and have to cross a lot of trails to get to it, or walk by areas where you expect deer to be spending daylight hours either in proximity or down wind of the trail in, I think you might be hurting your hunting chances. While you might sit on stand that first hunt and have a good one, and do not think you were detected by the deer you saw, you will likely have a lot more deer alerted to your presence after the hunt and it has the potential to have quite an effect on your future sits in that location. As you stated it is a potential gun stand, I’d think about your entry and exit first when considering where to place your set up, then wind direction as the second priority, because you don’t have to be in bow range of the action. Most of the other things to consider past that have more to do with how the area is used which is hard to tell by the pictures you included. Good luck!

I will have to let you know a little later this fall. After 25+ years with multi pins, both of my bows now have single pin sites on them. So far I love the fact I don't have to remember to choose the correct pin in the heat of the moment, and if I set it right most of my shots with a single pin should be easy adjustments (high/low aim) if the deer adjusts its course and I cannot change the yardage. My hunting bow has a Spot Hogg Fast Eddie XL on it, and if you haven't bought your new site yet you might want to look at a couple options on this site. I bought the site housing with the double pin on it, which has two "pointers" on the same pin (one just below the other). It should serve me well in an emergency if I either forget to move it or the deer ends up 10 yards further than what I expected. Kind of the best of both worlds for me. I love the accuracy of the single pin when I set it, and was never as good as I wanted to be when gapping pins on my multi-pin site. I can't wait to try it out in the tree.

I stop every deer that I shoot, unless it happens to stop on its own before I do. My only fear of stopping one with a grunt, or by my preferred lousy squirrel imitation, is that the deer might bolt and run off, but this has not happened to me so far. My fear is not of putting that deer on alert. Sure, I would rather shoot a deer that doesn’t have its head up in an alert fashion, but I can promise you that I have had deer duck an arrow that were calmly feeding and completely unaware that I was at full draw on them. I will compensate by aiming low at the heart at most distances, whether they are alert or not. Rarely will I ever attempt a shot at a walking deer. I want a complete pass through if possible, and avoiding the shoulder on entry or exit is important IMO. I’m not sure that I realized for many years how important the positioning of the near side leg is when shooting at a deer. If that leg is far back in the deer’s stride, it covers a larger portion of the vitals with bone and scapula than many think, and placing an arrow several inches behind that leg can mean liver or guts. I am 100% sure that I have made a couple shots like this over the years that lead to long recoveries or pushed deer that I should have let lie for a while. I prefer a stopped deer so that I can focus on where my arrow is both aimed for entry and thereby positioned for exit. I have stopped deer before to find that leg and shoulder covering more than I would like of the vitals and simply waited for a better shot. More than likely I will get one, as typically the deer will then stand at attention and position its legs side by side giving me the site picture I was hoping for. I’m not sure I can know where my arrow would land when I shoot at a walking deer with a bow. I know that the probability of hitting bone is a lot higher if that deer is moving and I cannot aim at a spot clear of the leg/shoulder. Yes, I know I could probably kill a deer most of the time that way, but I guess I want to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible before taking the shot. Follow through is vital when shooting a moving target with the gun, I get that, but I don’t practice that same type of follow through on a shot with my bow. I hope if someone does take a lot of moving shots on animals they practice that way in the pre-season as well. Now Doc, your deer urine idea is intriguing, but I try to avoid putting any human scent around the trails that I hope deer show up on, and in most of my stands they seem to have the habit of showing up from many directions. I try to take the cleanest entry and exit from my stands and avoid the deer trails as much as possible for that hunt and future ones. So…if someone would invent a paintball gun that shoots scented paint balls full of deer urine, then I am buying that.

100g NAP Killzones