CNYScott

Proof that hunting remains one of the best family activities regardless of the age of the participants.

Doc -- I blame the "completeness" on rule one. I'm disciplined enough to stick it out for many hours at a time...'ya gotta think of something!

Excellent point, bubba. Nothing better than helping a new person get their first deer. Our group has had guests ranging in age from 14 to 46 who got their first deer with us. Every bit as good as taking it yourself.

I'm 42, a shooter since 7 but didn't start hunting until I was 30 when my Friends of NRA buddies convinced me I needed to. I've been making up for lost time every since. Here are a few of things I've learned along the way. Would love to hear other's experiences. 1) Time in the field matters. You have to put the hours in to be successful. 2) Scouting matters. I scout, shed hunt, use trail cams and spend time on my property year-round watching deer habits - but haven't always done that. Since I have I've been far more successful in the quantity and quality of deer taken, and appreciate the experience more. 3) Leave a legacy. My kids are 12, 8 and 8. I bet at least two of them will hunt, and all three love going to the property, climbing a stand, scouting for deer (twin boys can be a bit noisy though), helping dad with his gear, and eating venison. Take a kid to the field, leave a legacy. 4) Good equipment is an investment. The difference financially between decent equipment and great equipment is not a lot, but the difference when it's 35, freezing rain and 30 mph wind is huge. Make the investment. 5) I'm not convinced scents work. Maybe I'm not doing it right, but when I use scents and scent covers it seems to be the days when I see the least deer. Wind direction relative to your hunting spot seems to matter much more in my experience. 6) Good hunting mentors and partners are essential. Starting at 30 afforded me an opportunity to hunt with peers who were very experienced and willing to help me learn. Along the way we've had a lot of fun, some adventure and more than a few laughs. The harvest is a highpoint, but taken as a whole the friendships are the best part of hunting. 7) Advocacy is important. We have as many enemies as friends, perhaps more so in a state like NY. Make sure you vote, question, demand, contribute and stay involved. Join NRA, NYSRPA, SCOPE, whatever...but do something. Range time. Practice, practice, practice. Trigger time is important. I've never taken a deer under perfect conditions. The more familiar and comfortable you are with your implement, the better your chance of success. 9) Establish ground rules before you hunt. I make a point to meet adjacent land owners prior to the season. I establish wounded/chase rules and build a relationship prior to needing to rely on that relationship. Since I host the property where my group hunts, I make sure that they all know the rules and are prepared to enforce them as well. 10) Treat your spouse right. I was married for 7 years before I started hunting, and she's a city girlie-girl. She doesn't mind guns or hunting, but she'll never take part herself. Leaving her to her own with three kids with busy schedules more so than normal while I hunt is tough on her. If you have a similar situation, make sure you 1) thank your spouse for holding down the fort; 2) give her a heads-up in advance to work around schedules 3) do something nice - a night out, girls night out, flowers...something to show you care. You're still going to get the better deal!

A serious buck of a lifetime.

It's an intro level muzzleloader with a round and 209 pellets in it. Breech plug was removed so it would not fire. Had intended to head back out in a day or two at the time, three years later still has not happened. I'll attempt to remove it tonight without firing it and inspect the barrel. Hoping luck is on my side on this one and there is no damage. I'm always a stickler for gun care - habit from my infantry days. Hoping this one exception didn't cost me a reliable gun.

Thanks, Fitzy. Mom always said, "If all else fails, read the directions".

HHC1 - Thanks. doewhacker - I did mention my outdoor involvement, including hunting. I also indicated that the formula is proprietary. The natural gas companies have platoons of environmental scientists that develop these fluids to 1) successfully frac and 2) be safe while doing so. These companies compete with each other and to publicly disclose that information is not a viable business practice. The disclosure is to regulators who set safety boundaries. The general public will not be afforded that information, any more than you know the proprietary ingredients of any medicine you take. The FDA sure does - and deems it safe or rejects it. I don't like run-off either, but frankly a certain amount measured in parts per million (PPM) is deemed acceptable. My point was that there are many things that are more dangerous (but acceptable) that you experience daily than alleged exposure to fracing fluid 5,000+ feet below bedrock. With regards to the impact on hunting, I think it will be minimal, especially after the 6-8 weeks of actual drilling is completed. The greatest impact may be the financial ability to hold onto leased property, farmland, family land, etc., when the economy is very tough and isn't improving. Hunt clubs and not-for-profits (Scout and YMCA camps, for example) are looking at leasing in NY as a way to establish financial stability at a time when charitable donations are down significantly. I joined this forum because I am a hunter and avid outdoorsman. This topic was posted and I have unique knowledge of it, so I've offered it. Individuals are free to choose to believe me or not.

I'm not lobbying you, and I fully disclosed my professional involvement up front. What else would you have me do? I tried to contribute to the conversation with my knowledge and as a hunter who is a native NY'er. Decide for yourself. As I stated the industry is willing to disclose all materials to regulators and expects the DEC will demand that. The DEC sets the standards, the industry will comply. The materials will mostly be recovered, some will be absorbed below 5,000 feet. You're more at risk from fertilizer run-off and winter road salt than anything used in fracing fluid. One man's informed opinion. You're free to decide, and the idea of a forum is to hear from other people.

Great mass. His neck is as big as my torso.

I've heard from many hunters, DEC officers and outdoor reporters that the vast majority of NY bear kills are chance encounters by deer hunters. I've been on three Adirondack by-the-book hunts for bear around the Saranac Lake area and the closest I've gotten to even seeing a bear is a pile of scat and a tree ripped open for its bugs. A very tough hunt without baiting or hounds.

Congratulations! Great story, and impressive buck. Great mass.

Prefer real, wife and daughter allergic. I always grumble assembling the the fake Christmas Tree with it's "Made In China" sticker that won't come off. Our decoration themes are Americana and hunting/outdoors so the end product always looks great. I just miss that pine smell.

This is a bit embarrassing - I'm an experienced shooter, relatively new to black powder. I have a TC that was put up three deer seasons ago with a round/powder in the barrel with all other mechanisms removed to be safe. I never did get out again and it has sat in my gun safe. I'd like to hunt muzzleloader next week and would like to clear the old round and powder and practice at the range this Saturday before I head out. Is it safe to discharge this round after three years? If not, what is the procedure for removing a round from a front loader without discharging the firearm? Advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

I can be of some help here. FULL DISCLOSURE: My firm represents ANGA (America's Natural Gas Alliance). I'm a conservationist, dedicated outdoorsman who hunts, fishes and camps a lot. I'm also a very involved Boy Scout leader. Before we took ANGA on as a client I did a lot of independent research including speaking to independent hydrogeologists, engineers and the President of SUNY ESF. I've been on rig tours in PA and researched news accounts of alleged contamination extensively. I'm comfortable in our choice to represent ANGA and have confidence in the technology. First, hydrofracing has been in use in the U.S. for 60 years. It's track record over time has been excellent. In NY there are already over 13,000 straight line and/or low volume hydrofraced wells. There has been one surface spill that was reclaimed since 1971. DEC has done an excellent job in its regulatory oversight. What is currently at stake in NY is an expansion of the volume of fracing fluid that is authorized for use, and permission to horizontally frac multiple drill lines from a single well head. This reduces the surface footprint substantially. The horizontal fraced veins of gas are between 5,000 and 8,000 below the surface. The average NY well is less than 300 feet. Their waters sources are separated by 1000's of feet of impermeable bedrock and the water sources do not mix. The dSGEIS document currently being reviewed by DEC is not an "if" document - drilling in NY already exists. It is a "how" and "how much" policy document The Marcellus Shale area, primarily the Southern Tier into the Catskills, is the second largest natural gas field in the world. It is a gold mine, and could on its own power the nation from the Mississippi River to the Atlantic coast for a minimum of 50 years. Many landowners, farmers, hunting clubs, businesses and local governments would make a substantial amount of money if this moves forward. With regards to the fracing fluid - it is proprietary to the drilling companies (they are business competitors, after all), but nearly all have voluntarily agreed to disclose their "recipe" to regulators, and we expect DEC to require that. It is over 99% water and sand; the rest is common materials also found in cosmetics, food, and pharmaceuticals. The fracing fluid is necessary to release and channel the natural gas for extraction through minimal invasive fractures in the shale. With regards to contamination - there have been surface spills that can be and are cleaned-up. There has not been a casing leak in a drill shaft, ever, in NY. There are no cases that I am aware of a modern drill casing leaking. Again, DEC will require the most stringent standards, and the industry expects them to. I'm a lifelong NY'er with three kids. I don't want to see our water contaminated, and I don't believe for an instant that they will be. With regards to methane, benzine, etc. These are naturally occurring chemicals in nature. I was at a landowners meeting in Norwich with about 600 people earlier this year. Nearly 10% could light their well water on fire due to methane content. There are NO hydrofraced drills on those properties. The sensationalism without scientific proof of "Gasland" has pulled at heartstrings but its claims don't past objective muster. In fact, some companies have found that in pre-testing before drilling, as many as 40% of landowners in some areas of PA find methane in their drinking water. Companies haven't always pre-tested, so the "conclusion" in the past is that drilling caused the methane. Now the companies do pre-test. They won't drill on property with methane present because the trial lawyers will line-up to sue. This naturally occurring phenomenon is now denying landowners lucrative leases for fear of frivolous lawsuits. The same goes for claims of radiation. Everything has some degree of radiation. Many have screamed about radiation of rock material drawn up when a drill is tapped. That may in fact occur and is tested and dealt with. Rock drawn up in wells in NY historically have less radiation than a cheeseburger from McDonald's. Water - It is a water intensive process, but it is a literal drop in the bucket for NY's water sources. Natural Gas drilling is being done in Texas and Wyoming where you drive for hundreds of miles without seeing water. I've spoken to many hydrogeologists and this is an unfounded concern to those who know best. Waste Water - It can and will be treated at waste water facilities just like other industrial waste, sewage, pharmaceutical waste water, etc. The industry pays for it and it is yet another financial benefit to local governments. With regards to "Gasland". This is a Michale Moore-esqe hit job that makes for great theater and alarm, but it's very short on actual facts or science based proof. I encourage you to extend your research past Hollywood sensationalism. Last, the process: The actual drilling process takes 6-8 weeks during which many trucks and water tanks will be on site. After that, a small single wellhead is left on about a 1/4 acre with a minimal industrial humming noise intrusion. The land is reclaimed and replanted to original or better condition. Roads are often completely rebuilt to company specifications for their occasional trucks - usually far exceeding local government standards. Will it interrupt hunting? Generally no, and you may wish to address this in your lease if NY allows this to move forward. After the drilling is done and the wellhead is established I would consider the interruption to be nil. Bottom line, this is the only industry that is readty to go - right now - and doesn't want a tax break, Empire Zone, PILOT agreement or anything else. The industry has asked DEC to dramatically increase the permit application fee to ensure proper funding for regulatory staffing. State officials response so far: "We can't dedicate funds". This, of course, is false. The state legislature would love the revenue but wants first crack at it's use. This is an emotional issue for many. I firmly believe that much of the emotion is due to false and misleading information by environmentalists that are not our friends on drilling any more than they are on hunting. The opposition is extremely well funded out of NYC and have done their job well. They are a tough foe. Their alarm can be sounded in 10 seconds (Don't ruin our water!). My explanation just took 20 minutes to type. I have an obligation to be correct based on facts. My opponents have no such limitation. Finally, please visit this website that my company manages. It can help shed some more light on information regarding natural gas drilling: http://www.friendsofnaturalgasny.com/ I hoped this has helped. There will be those that disagree. If you want to continue the discussion all I ask is that you come armed with facts. Happy hunting for the rest of the season.

nyrkba: You don't know or anything about me. ILA was very pleased with our work, we delivered exactly what they asked of us. I still work closely with them today. Since I'm not the original poster of this thread I'd ask that you'd keep on topic and stop the anonymous sniping at me. If you know me I'm easy to find. Be a man and contact me directly if you need to get something off your chest. Unlike you I'm comfortable enough in my opinions that I'm willing to put my real name and contact info with them. To everyone else, this "nyrkba" opinion not withstanding, please consider attending January 25th. Too much at stake and a new Governor and AG that don't share our views. Not the time to be fighting amongst ourselves, but there are always those who seem to relish in it.

I have to respectfully disagree, nyrkba. There are plenty of legislators that want nothing to do with us to be sure. However, sportsmen often make the mistake of only visiting those that are with us. In NY that is too small a number. The lobbying day is wasted if you don't reach out and try to make some new friends. I've been a professional lobbyist since 1991, including NRA-ILA State & Local Affairs in NY from 2001-2004. I've found many staffers and legislators simply have not been exposed to guns or the shooting sports. Best thing you can do - invite your legislators & staff to the range back home. Teach them. Expose them to the fun of safe shooting. Once you break down the barriers of politics and build a relationship with these folks, the politics gets easier down the road. Not all will respond positively, but some will. It's not enough to preach to the converted. It's time to expand our influence by making more friends.

I can find no flaws in her technique. She can hunt with me any time.

Winchester Model 70 Featherlite in .270. Bushnell Big Game Trophy scope, 40 mm 3-9. I've taken plenty of deer and a 250 lbs. boar with it. Great rifle, won at a Friends of NRA banquet many years ago.

A great event. Hats off to Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb (R-Canadaigua), Tom King of NYSRPA, Remington Arms and all the Sportsmens clubs and federations who made it successful. Over 3,000 pro-gun activists flooded the Legislative Office Building. With Andrew Cuomo as the new Governor and Eric Schneiderman as the Attorney General (author of micro stamping legislation) you are making a mistake, in my opinion, if you are not active with your government officials. Because state officials are not up for re-election in 2011, that would be the year they try gun control measures. Please attend. Dress nicely, speak politely. Make appointments with staff and legislators. Most anti-gun legislators are that way from lack of information. Invite them to the range or your club. Now is the time to build friendships - BEFORE we need them. Some pics for this past event: Me with EVP of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre; the crowd in the well of the LOB, 3,000 strong.

Nice article. Ed and Deb have been processing my meat for years, and before them, Deb's Dad. Very friendly, professional and they know their trade well. Well worth the money for the vacuum packing. Took my kids out there this year (ages 12, 8 and and their staff were great about telling them about the process.

I think the eight might have been "surprised" a bit because the next three pictures on the trail cam is him taking the young buck to school. A couple of antler strikes and a bite.

Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain in .270. It will put them down for sure, but as soft nosed as it is I've had a number of deer ro down after a short run with no blood trail. The expansion is excellent but often does not exit a large deer. Makes tracking, particularly in the rain or dark, a tough situation sometimes.

I've heard of that but it's a decent 8-pointer on the receiving end. That would be some prize doe!

Decent young 8 pointer. Nice tines.