Dark Tarsal in Winter

[mac]

I saw what appeared to be a doe with 2 youngins this am. The largest what Im assuming to be the mama had large very dark tarsals. Is that normal this time of year? what are you guys seeing. Unless it was a buck that recently dropped the headgear but would the tarsals be that large & dark in March?

[growalot]

It's only caused by hock urination...I see both buck and doe urinating on their hocks year around here...I believe that the activity increases during the breeding season but..... deer always want other deer to know who's in what territory...IMO

[landtracdeerhunter]

Their were new rubs still showing up here last month. That can only mean one thing.

[mac]

I'm down in southern NY but I will keep an eye out to see they are licking them and such. So outside of main rut times, they do the "urinate on their hocks" thing to show dominance to others also?

[growalot]

I wouldn't put it only as dominance ...for Females do this year around as well...I believe it's just social contact....letting them know who's around...they come across a urine spot...then later get a scent on the wind from the deer that made the urine spot earlier...

[Geno C]

i only noted urination on hocks for bucks as things were getting closer to that magical time of year, usually the residual stays on there for weeks to a few months after the season end. Does also, their hocks are usually snow white when they dont cycle or during the spring/summer. but dont forget, A Doe can cycle more then one time per season and as late as march believe it or not. doesnt mean she will take but bucks have been known to fight for breeding rights well after their antlers dropped on a late cycled doe. just becasue our hunting season ends doesnt mean the breeding cycle stops and just becasue a doe is bred doesnt mean she will take. Deer and Deer hunting had this on TV a few months ago and i DVR'd it, very interesting.

[Geno C]

BTW, i think it was episode 9 season 8 of DNDH. very interesting... i just looked on the web and cant find anything on it yet. i could cell video it and post it prob.

[growalot]

We only have rabbit ears...I speak from years in Our woods every day..I do think I mentioned the viewing of doe rub urinating last summer on here some where...wouldn't mind if you could post that D&DH

Edited March 7, 2013 by growalot

[landtracdeerhunter]

Dr. Grant Woods has some interesting info on Growing Deer tv.

[Geno C]

Oh, I was not saying you were entirely wrong or negating what field data you see while in the woods. I personally have never seen or recall seeing a doe with dark hocks in spring or summer months at all. For whatever reason, maybe the estrous urine is darker than their usual urine which causes it to turn the hocks dark? Who knows… but from what I know/read or heard is that not every doe bred takes and that a doe bred can cycle again and in other cases she can cycle more then once. The rut/breeding season is highly based upon fawn survival and often if a doe feels her young would not be ready to make the spring and be old enough for the following winter months, she has a way of aborting those fawns prior to birth.

Plain and simple deer breed in the times they do to ensure optimal survival for their young. If a fawn is born to early, there may not be enough foliage for it to feed in the spring and survive those few early weeks coming out of winter and if its born to late it may not be strong enough and old enough to survive the upcoming winter. I don’t think it is uncommon to see a deer with dark glands at this point of the year BUT that’s my opinion and like everyone else that’s all the it is lol.

I want to try and find that episode of DNDH but if I cant I will video it and post it, it actually is very interesting. They specifically say that a doe will cycle more than once and its proven that the same doe can cycle a few times. Even as late as Feb and March. Bucks will know when she cycles and it will cause rutting activities such as scrapes, fighting and if antlers dropped fighting will take place with 2 bucks on hind legs. Very interesting stuff…

[growalot]

I really like Growing Deer TV....

Edited March 7, 2013 by growalot

[Geno C]

which is that? is that the same as DNDH?

[growalot]

No... Dr. Grant Woods....

 

http://www.growingdeer.tv

[landtracdeerhunter]

I have the up most respect for Dr. Woods. Just can't miss his programs.

[NYBuckHunter27]

There is no breeding taking place at this time of the year, what a 3rd rut? come on.

[growalot]

I don't see where anyone said they were breeding now or there was a third "rut"...

 

That said I have a lot of pics with dark tarsals...I stand by what I said as to both doe and buck rub urinate through out the year   I've watched it...I also have mentioned.... several times....That right now I'm seeing a lot of brown...not yellow urine....this could be another reason for the dark tarsal glands...

Not everything deer do is "rut" or breeding oriented....they are territorial...Now I would imagine ...when food is at it's lowest they are even more so..

 

Taking into account all the posts of ppl seeing  small spotted fawn during  bow season...and I've seen many of those posted over the years.......one would have to gather deer do not need a "rut" to get a doe bred.

 

 

(typing)

Edited March 26, 2013 by growalot