Skunked!

[Caveman]

Finally got a day to head out and chase some squirrels yesterday.  Between two of us we got one and saw three others.  This was a spot that always produced a limit last year and we didn't even see a limit this year.  In six hours of hunting we didn't even flush one rabbit or pheasant either.  Anyone else noticing decreased small game numbers this year? 

[RPIBuckHunter]

I went pheasant hunting with my dad Sunday.  We saw three birds, but forest was very thick and could not get a good shot.  We did see about half a dozen squirrels, but all my shooting opportunities would have sent shot over my dad's head so obviously not safe.  We did not see a single rabbit, which was shocking because it looked like good rabbit territory.

This was in Daketown State Forest in...Milford?  Maybe?  About an hour north of Schenectady on State Highway 147.

[Caveman]

It's strange in the past filling a limit in  6 hours would not be a problem.  We were hunting big stands of oak and shag-bark hickory for the squirrels but to get there we went through fields of grass that was once waist high but was now dead and blown over so you would think you'd flush a couple rabbits or pheasants.

[ADKSasquatch]

I've noticed a whole lot of nothing when it comes to small game.  I'm blaming the 'yotes.  So, once I'm done with my deer season, 'yote hunting it is. 

[Doc]

I've noticed a whole lot of nothing when it comes to small game.  I'm blaming the 'yotes.  So, once I'm done with my deer season, 'yote hunting it is.

Don't forget all the hawks that are around. I think they take a lot more small game than people realize. Of course there is nothing you can do about those because they are protected. At least you can help thin out the coyotes a little bit and maybe sell a few hides to cover expenses.

Doc

[Pygmy]

In my area there seems to be a bumper crop of both squirrels and rabbits this year, despite the presence of plenty of predators.... I suspect that the numbers of small game animals and birds depends more on population cycles and cover issues than on predators...

Upland game birds are a different story..Most pheasant hunting here in the southern tier is put and take, and has been for MANY years, due to modern farming practices and much of the cover reverting back to woodland rather than brush.. Grouse and woodcock populations aren't very high either... Plenty of TURKEYS, tho....

[Doc]

I suspect that the numbers of small game animals and birds depends more on population cycles and cover issues than on predators...

But it used to be considered pretty common knowledge that predators were part of those population cycles. At least that is the way I always read it. As small game numbers increased, predator populations would prosper, thrive and grow. Working in concert with small game disease and deteriorating food sources they would eventually reverse the small game populations to begin the down side of their cycle. Then as the small game diminished, the predator population would correspondingly begin the downturn of their cycle.

I suppose there has to be a point where both the predator population and the small game population both are at their high points in the cyles, but it would only be for a short, temporary time.

I'm sure it never works out all that neat and tidy, but generally that is the way it's supposed to work.

Doc

[Pygmy]

Of course predator populations increase when there is lots of feed...

However  huntable small game animals and game birds are only part of the picture......Various rodents and birds and even insects comprise  a significant part of predators diets, and of course bocats and coyotes rely to some extent on deer..

When predator populations get too high, Mother Nature steps in with a couple of very effective controls..Sarcoptic mange , rabies and distemper....

Of course those diseaes don't affect avian predators such as hawks and owls..

[Doc]

Of course predator populations increase when there is lots of feed...

However  huntable small game animals and game birds are only part of the picture......Various rodents and birds and even insects comprise  a significant part of predators diets, and of course bocats and coyotes rely to some extent on deer..

When predator populations get too high, Mother Nature steps in with a couple of very effective controls..Sarcoptic mange , rabies and distemper....

Of course those diseaes don't affect avian predators such as hawks and owls..

I suppose the old theory of population cycles probably takes all that into consideration as contributers to the cycles of both predator and prey. And the huntable and non-huntable participants would be considered together as the predator diet.

I do believe that all these things including diseases work to establish the cycles. The levels of easily obtainable protien probably is reflected in the cases of disease. But there is no doubt that there is symbiotic link between predator and prey that keeps populations of both in check or booming. It may not always be a perfect balancing and re-balancing system, but it worked well for a long time before we decided to give it all a hand.....lol.

[Pygmy]

I feel the very most important factor in small game and gamebird populations is habitat/cover....

If the  birds and rabbits have sufficient nesting and escape cover, they will thrive DESPITE high predator populations.... Much of the dense small game cover that was around my home area in the 50s and 60s is mature forest now..Great for squirrels and turkeys, but not so good for rabbits and grouse... There is still prime patches of cover around, but you have to seek them out, and they are often NOT easy to hunt... I hunt rabbits in some places so thick that you nearly have to lay on your belly to shoot a rabbit...Still, my buddies and I  have managed to kill 40 to 50 bunnies per season ahead of our beagles the last few years...

[RPIBuckHunter]

Wildcats, you're around the capital district, right?  Where do you go to chase squirrels?  I went back to Daketown State Forest today, looking for rabbit, squirrel, and pheasant, and I saw NOTHING.

I'm thinking about maybe trying the Pine Bush Preserve, but the thought of shelling out that much cash on non-toxic to shoot rabbits and squirrels is kind of irksome...

[Caveman]

Wildcats, you're around the capital district, right?  Where do you go to chase squirrels?  I went back to Daketown State Forest today, looking for rabbit, squirrel, and pheasant, and I saw NOTHING.

I'm thinking about maybe trying the Pine Bush Preserve, but the thought of shelling out that much cash on non-toxic to shoot rabbits and squirrels is kind of irksome...

I was down in Partridge Run WMA, southern Albany County.  I deer hunted in Pine Bush this past weekend and all I saw was squirrels so it may be worth it. 

Speaking of which, can you hunt turkey in Pine Bush?

[RPIBuckHunter]

Wildcats, you're around the capital district, right?  Where do you go to chase squirrels?  I went back to Daketown State Forest today, looking for rabbit, squirrel, and pheasant, and I saw NOTHING.

I'm thinking about maybe trying the Pine Bush Preserve, but the thought of shelling out that much cash on non-toxic to shoot rabbits and squirrels is kind of irksome...

I was down in Partridge Run WMA, southern Albany County.  I deer hunted in Pine Bush this past weekend and all I saw was squirrels so it may be worth it. 

Speaking of which, can you hunt turkey in Pine Bush?

The way the regulation is written, I believe you can-Turkey is considered a small game by the DEC.

[NY Trophy Hunter]

Seemed like there were a 100 of them suckers running around my treestand the other night. I even saw a black one, which aren't typical for my area.