Jump to content

mike rossi
 Share

Recommended Posts

NYC Hunters are STILL not organized!

 

We have attempted to reach out to NYC hunters in an effort to not only organize them in the mourning dove initiative, and protect the State Pheasant Farm, but also to organize them in general.

 

There is absolutely no reason NYC hunters cannot develop a member list, maintain NYC-specific social media, a website, and their own e-newsletter, and a forum if they desire. They can also do what several hundred upstate organizations do, and have dozens of local  state assembly and senate members attend their meetings and discuss hunting-related matters.

 

NY Dove Hunting is willing to help NYC hunters create a website, social media, newsletter, and forum, as we did for New Jersey hunters regarding their initiative to legalize Sunday firearm hunting. However, we cannot administer the organization for you. This is where NJ is failing, at least for now. We cannot recruit, organize, and do what needs to be done at the local grassroots level. And, unfortunately, due to lobbying by state hunting organizations under the notion it is in the best interest of the hunter (privacy, etc), it is difficult for us to obtain a list of licensed hunters from the DEC.

 

There are probably between 50,000 and 70,000 licensed hunters in NYC, not including Long Island. NYC hunters will not be counted until they are organized separately from state and national hunting organizations. NY Dove Hunting has already been corresponding with downstate legislators, including those in NYC. They are not as smug some would lead you to believe. If you help us, together we can nail this.

 

Contact us through our website and lets get this going!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe if there was actually a place for NYC folks to hunt dove, you might get more of a response.

Most hunters that I know who reside in the city are already struggling to learn the ropes for species they can easily access within reasonable distances, such as deer and squirrel.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe if there was actually a place for NYC folks to hunt dove, you might get more of a response.

Most hunters that I know who reside in the city are already struggling to learn the ropes for species they can easily access within reasonable distances, such as deer and squirrel.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Once dove hunting is legalized then you'll find plenty of places to hunt them.  I assume there is no deer hunting in the city either?

 

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once dove hunting is legalized then you'll find plenty of places to hunt them. I assume there is no deer hunting in the city either?

:)

What do you call Staten Island?

Most city folk drive within an hour and they are at their deer and squirrel spots. I'm not sure that's possible for dove. I wonder how many city folks would be willing to travel in excess of that to scout for doves. But regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof for doves, getting NYC Hunters to organize would seem challenging.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you call Staten Island?

Most city folk drive within an hour and they are at their deer and squirrel spots. I'm not sure that's possible for dove. I wonder how many city folks would be willing to travel in excess of that to scout for doves. But regardless of the opportunities or lack thereof for doves, getting NYC Hunters to organize would seem challenging.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

I would say you will find mourning doves more readily than either deer or squirrel proximate to NYC. you just need to know what to look for.

 

This may not apply to you, or others on this site, but we have a theory that there are a number of people who live in NYC who presently do not hunt, and  do not want to deal with butchering a deer and all else inherent to deer hunting, that would be receptive to dove hunting. Particularly the Maltese-American population, as well as many Hispanics who carry a tradition of dove hunting, but not of hunting for deer or squirrel.

 

Strongly agree, however, that organizing NYC hunters will be a challenge, but it can be done.  This is the start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say you will find mourning doves more readily than either deer or squirrel proximate to NYC. you just need to know what to look for.

This may not apply to you, or others on this site, but we have a theory that there are a number of people who live in NYC who presently do not hunt, and do not want to deal with butchering a deer and all else inherent to deer hunting, that would be receptive to dove hunting. Particularly the Maltese-American population, as well as many Hispanics who carry a tradition of dove hunting, but not of hunting for deer or squirrel.

Strongly agree, however, that organizing NYC hunters will be a challenge, but it can be done. This is the start.

If I were you, I'd solicit trap and skeet establishments and spread the word around gun clubs associated with anything wing shooting related to bring awareness to the untapped NYC population.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not seen any mourning doves in any areas near NYC that allows hunting. At least not in the areas I hunt (Orange, Westchester, Putnam). The only time I've seen mourning doves while out hunting was in NJ. I do see them in the city but of course I can't shoot them there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Elmo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I were you, I'd solicit trap and skeet establishments and spread the word around gun clubs associated with anything wing shooting related to bring awareness to the untapped NYC population.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

In discussing (this) topic, we need to keep separate and distinct hunter recruitment and organizing existing hunters. I agree that a portion of target shooters who do not currently hunt sometimes become hunters, and thus they are always potential recruits. However, my intent with this dialogue is to discuss organizing existing hunters.

 

Another thing I want to point out, is we need local people,in all regions of the state, to step up and do the soliciting. As I indicated, we already provided online and professional support to NJ sportsmen, but after we dropped the ball, they failed to pick it up. We are willing to assist NYC from the air, so to speak, but there is little else we can do. 

 

I have not seen any mourning doves in any areas near NYC that allows hunting. At least not in the areas I hunt (Orange, Westchester, Putnam). The only time I've seen mourning doves while out hunting was in NJ. I do see them in the city but of course I can't shoot them there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

As I said to you in a private message, the importance of organization is farther reaching than dove hunting. The question of where are the doves is a repetitive refrain we have addressed elsewhere and doesn't really fit into this thread.(Besides hunters also claim there are no rabbits, no grouse, no woodcock, and even no deer. I have read numerous posts this fall about some hunters unable to locate squirrels too). 

 

Never the less, mourning doves are found, and are abundant, in every county in NY. Anywhere along the NYC area is a major migration corridor for many species, including mourning doves. The only section of NY mourning doves are absent are in the high peak regions of the Catskills and the Adirondacks. However, hunters should not expect the presence of doves to always be obvious, although sometimes it is. 

 

You also need to consider that many mourning doves are migratory. With migratory game birds, there is often a small window of opportunity when game abundance is at its peak. Doves, being seed eaters, will coordinate their migration with the sexual maturity of weeds and crop harvest. You need to know what you are doing. Some states run managed dove fields and some  family farms derive supplemental income from managing dove fields and charging hunters an access fee. In those situations, much of the task of finding doves is eliminated. But for the most part, hunters need to learn about the natural history and behavior of doves to be successful, just like in hunting all other game species. You also have to keep in mind, part of the the struggle is with the hunting culture in NY itself. The preference is for animals that are very visible - whitetail, wild turkey, squirrel, and  even coyotes because they make a lot of tracks and noise. To illustrate this, consider that grouse are far more abundant than wild turkey in NY, yet much fewer people hunt grouse relative to the number of turkey hunters in NY.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sue how this post strayed so far. It started with an offer to start organizing NYC hunters. Surprisingly, and, disappointingly,  nobody responded.

 

I then was posting region-specific info, but in region 2 I decided to just add it to this post. Then, I start to get replies, not closely related to either the original post nor post number 2....

 

So I guess I will just give post number 2 another try, please follow the link and engage in this campaign related to the dove matter, thank you!

 

http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/call-to-action.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In discussing (this) topic, we need to keep separate and distinct hunter recruitment and organizing existing hunters. I agree that a portion of target shooters who do not currently hunt sometimes become hunters, and thus they are always potential recruits. However, my intent with this dialogue is to discuss organizing existing hunters.

 

Another thing I want to point out, is we need local people,in all regions of the state, to step up and do the soliciting. As I indicated, we already provided online and professional support to NJ sportsmen, but after we dropped the ball, they failed to pick it up. We are willing to assist NYC from the air, so to speak, but there is little else we can do. 

 

 

As I said to you in a private message, the importance of organization is farther reaching than dove hunting. The question of where are the doves is a repetitive refrain we have addressed elsewhere and doesn't really fit into this thread.(Besides hunters also claim there are no rabbits, no grouse, no woodcock, and even no deer. I have read numerous posts this fall about some hunters unable to locate squirrels too). 

 

Never the less, mourning doves are found, and are abundant, in every county in NY. Anywhere along the NYC area is a major migration corridor for many species, including mourning doves. The only section of NY mourning doves are absent are in the high peak regions of the Catskills and the Adirondacks. However, hunters should not expect the presence of doves to always be obvious, although sometimes it is. 

 

You also need to consider that many mourning doves are migratory. With migratory game birds, there is often a small window of opportunity when game abundance is at its peak. Doves, being seed eaters, will coordinate their migration with the sexual maturity of weeds and crop harvest. You need to know what you are doing. Some states run managed dove fields and some  family farms derive supplemental income from managing dove fields and charging hunters an access fee. In those situations, much of the task of finding doves is eliminated. But for the most part, hunters need to learn about the natural history and behavior of doves to be successful, just like in hunting all other game species. You also have to keep in mind, part of the the struggle is with the hunting culture in NY itself. The preference is for animals that are very visible - whitetail, wild turkey, squirrel, and  even coyotes because they make a lot of tracks and noise. To illustrate this, consider that grouse are far more abundant than wild turkey in NY, yet much fewer people hunt grouse relative to the number of turkey hunters in NY.   

Again this must show the different parts of the state. I sure am glad i dont have to rely on Grouse and Dove for my supper in my area but Turkeys are many, Far and Wide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, lets try it again.....

 

THESIS: Everybody who lives in NYC has a say-so about hunting policy EXCEPT people who live in NYC that buy hunting licenses.....

 

PROOF: If a NYC hunter goes into speak to his state assembly rep or his state senate rep about hunting matters, he will not likely get any satisfaction. In contrast, any other constituent who is opposed to hunting and/or requests their rep supports existing anti hunting legislation or sponsors a new anti hunting bill; he/she is likely to be accommodated.  

 

Now, Disprove the Thesis or Agree with it..... Comments? Opinions? 

 

So how can this be pass as a legitimate system? Because nobody ever thought of it this way? 

 

I am not going to develop the thesis, launch a poll, start a website, face book group, and forum dedicated to this  issue by myself, I want input. 

 

This is the one issue I would like to have the antis in on the discussion, and the politicians. I really want to see how they reconcile this.

 

By the way, there are only two members of the Assembly in NYC who are republicans, both are on Staten Island. Joe Borrelli District 62 and Nicole Malliokakis District 64.  And, of these two lone NYC republicans on the Assembly one of them is endorsed by the Humane Society of the United States. Read about it here:

 

 http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/the-new-york-state-legislature-up-close.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Similar Content

    • By mike rossi
      Details coming soon!
       
      As mourning doves expand northward Canadian Providences are instating hunting seasons. British Columbia has hunted doves for some time. Southern Ontario instated a season in 2014, and now Quebec. There is also a pending proposal in Manitoba and discussion elsewhere. 
    • By mike rossi
      Air Shotguns add a new dimension to dove hunting. Note the comment about the overhead utility lines, we are going to recommend the DEC prohibits dove hunting within gun range of lines to prevent damage to them. They are taking Eurasian collared doves, which are similar to our native mourning doves. They are spreading and it is not too uncommon to find this introduced dove across NY. The impacts of ECD are not known at this point.
       
      If you want to hunt doves in NY, sign our online petition at this link: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/petition.html 
       
      For info on Eurasian Collared Doves go to this link: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/eurasian-collared-dove-hunting-ndash-endless-opportunity.html
       
       
       
    • By mike rossi
      Upcoming movie pushes back against the anti-bird dog movement, recommended by the AKC: 
       
      http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/new-movie.html
    • By mike rossi
      Dove Hunting, Spying on Trapper's Convention, NAVHDA Bird Dog Training, and more...
      This page takes a moment to load... it's worth the wait.
       
      http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/anti-hunting-activity-in-new-york.html
    • By mike rossi
      By now you might understand the utility of the information we are sending you and why we are sending it to you. If you are still cursing us out or scratching your head because you are not quite there yet, please stick around! 
       
      Below is a summary we compiled which reflects the central premises of anti-hunting activists both in general and specific to dove hunting. (In the future we will adapt this to pheasant stocking, Sunday hunting, and young forest management).
       
      Categories of arguments are grouped and typical premises of each category are listed.
       
      For your convenience the same information is attached to this email as a pdf file which can be downloaded and saved to your computer.
       
       
      Catalog of Arguments Frequently used by Anti-Hunting Organizations and Activists
       
      Hunter Attitude and Behavior Arguments
       
      1. Lack of interest in retrieving doves.
      2. Hunters do not retrieve or eat doves but rather use them for target practice. Comments made by hunters, outdoor writers, and hunting spokespersons which reflect that or can be construed as such, are frequently quoted by anti-hunters and the media. 
      3. Dove hunting practices are cruel/inhumane/unethical/immoral/unsporting
      4. How hunting causes suffering to doves, for example wounding and not retrieving.
       
      Social Imbalance Arguments
       
      1. Expanding hunting opportunity will contract opportunity for non-hunting activities.
      2. Participation in hunting is shrinking and there is more revenue generated and greater participation in other outdoor activities. Policy should favor the majority.
      3. Expanding hunting opportunity will make NY less desirable for non-hunting recreation which will result in lost revenue for the state and local economies.
      4. The vast majority of hunters are middle aged or older Caucasian males.
       
      Power and Control Arguments
       
      1. Decisions should be made by majority rule (voting).
      2. Hunting policy is decided under a rigged system tainted by favoritism, politics, special interests, money, and abuse of power.
      3. State wildlife agencies mismanage wildlife to accommodate hunters because hunting license revenue is their primary source of funds.
      4. A pro-hunting culture exists within the DEC.
      5. There is no anti-hunting representation on the Conservation Fund Advisory Board and the Fish and Wildlife Management Board. At least one representative of the Humane Society of the United States should be appointed to these boards to represent the interests of the broader public, not just hunters.
       
      Public Participation Arguments
       
      1. Anti-hunters claim they are disenfranchised from the decision making process, the extent to which they are involved, the nature of their involvement.
      2. Lack of transparency of the decision-making process exists.
      3. Public notice was inadequate and therefore stakeholder participation was compromised. 
       
      Arguments about the reliability of population estimates, monitoring, and information about mourning doves.
       
      1. Science is not recent enough
      2. Quality of science is inadequate or questionable
      3. Need NY specific data
      4. Imprecise population estimates
      5. There is speculation surrounding dove management.
      6. NEPA requires ESA, EIS before instating a dove hunting season and/or similar action should be taken prior to considering a dove season. 
       
      Wildlife management is a failure/debacle
       
      1. Management of doves and other wildlife is not working/failing/ineffective.
      2. Animal-related problems are the result of human arrogance, intervention, manipulation or management.
      3. Hunting causes imbalanced wildlife populations.
       
      Dove Hunting is not biologically justified
       
      1. Management need does not exist because doves are not overpopulated or a nuisance species, therefore hunting is not biologically justified.
       
      Dove hunting will not generate conservation revenue or general economic activity.
       
      1. Flawed economic report (flawed because of gross misinterpretation of data)
      2. Participation in dove hunting does not require much money so it should not be allowed
      3. Dove hunters do not buy electronic dog equipment so the economic impact of dove hunting is insignificant.
      4. Dove hunting will only redistribute the effort but not increase license sales.
      5. Dove hunting will have an impact on ticket sales for concerts and basketball games thereby hurting the economy.
       
      Lack of meat
       
      1. A dove is too small to provide “sustenance”.
       
      Palatability
       
      1. Dove meat has a bitter taste that requires heavy marinades
      2. Crow tastes like wild duck and doves
       
      Doves as Symbols
       
      1. Christian
      2. Hebrew
      3. Pagan
      4. Military
      5. Pacifist
      6. Artist Picasso's painting of the Peace Dove.
       
      Public Safety
       
      1. Dove hunting jeopardizes the safety of non-hunters recreating outdoors
       
      Maintain the Status Quo
       
      1. Doves have not been hunted in NY for many years and that protection should remain in place.
       
      Assigning Characteristics to Doves
       
      1. Peaceful, innocent, helpless, loving, devoted, cute, etc.
       
      Incidental Take of Protected Birds
       
      1. Concerns are often raised about hunter’s ability or commitment to identify doves in flight
      2. Persons self-identifying as “experienced” bird watchers, or indicate they study birds for a living (including several artists who characterize their livelihood as “study birds for a living”) indicate they personally have misidentified stationary doves with binoculars, and assert that an error is more likely when discerning birds in flight without binoculars.
       
      Miscellaneous
       
      1. “I am not an animal rights extremist” “I am just a concerned bird watcher”.
      2. ‘I am a hunter, but I oppose hunting doves”.
      3. Orphaned chicks
      4. Compare mourning doves with the passenger pigeon.
      5.  Pb ammunition
      6. Hunters will shoot at doves flying near or perched on utility lines and damage them.
      7.  Writer indicates experience owning a dove or other bird as a pet, saving young birds.
      8. Writer advocates teaching children and/or adults about coexisting with wildlife, animals were here first, compassion for doves, reverence for all life.
      9.  Eating meat is unhealthy or bad for the environment.
      10.  Amount of money spent by both sides or the government in fighting the matter.
      11. Because I feed doves in my backyard people should not hunt them.
      12. Hunters already have enough species to hunt.
      13. Doves are the Farmer’s Friend because they control nuisance plants by eating seeds.
      14. New York State Assembly Rule 3, Sec 1(f) requires the Fiscal Implications of Legislation must be determined.
      15. Anti-hunters will often quote or paraphrase statements made by well-known persons, some of which were published over 120 years ago. The content of such statements is varied:  opinion, outdated science, and often speculation that did not pan out over time.
       
      Characterization of Hunters
       
      1. Real men do not hunt
      2. Hunters are cowards
      3. Hunters are feeble-minded
      4. Hunters are inbred
      5. Hunters are overweight or “paunchy”.
      6. Hunters are backwards
      7. Hunters are hicks
      8. Hunters are Caucasian males
      9. Hunters are an aging and dying breed that is going extinct, in with the new and out with the old!
      10. Hunters are drunks
      11. Hunters are non-athletic or “NARPS” – non-athletic regular person
      12. Hunters can’t fist fight so they need guns
      13.  Multiple contexts of physical inadequacy, sexual inadequacy/etc.
      14. Hunters have the “little man syndrome”.
       
      Core arguments-FD.pdf
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...