NYC has a whopping 66 assembly districts! Thoughts?

[shawnhu]

Good luck finding the folks that are in it for the experience, and are willing to travel unlimited miles for such.

From the hunters I know living in NYC, we have much to juggle, and we don't need juggling additional burden on finances so that we can hunt a few birds that seemingly doesn't exist within 100 miles. The cost of owning a vehicle in NYC will pay for most hunts out west for most folks.

Most of us that are hunters and capable of a voice, are already overwhelmed on the abundant game, such as deer, squirrels, pheasant, rabbits, coyote, fox, gophers, etc.

In a city that where there are a million and one ways to spend one's expendable income, hunting is on the bottom of the totem pole for many.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Elmo]

Some of us also walk undercover in a sea of anti's.  Even with limited time, I for one, don't mind helping here and there but would prefer to do so behind the scenes and not be too public about it.

[mike rossi]

Some of us also walk undercover in a sea of anti's.  Even with limited time, I for one, don't mind helping here and there but would prefer to do so behind the scenes and not be too public about it.

 

Visiting with your state reps is private, so is writing to them. Sometimes state reps have citizen days, where they have an open house and you can go in and speak to them about your desires. But you can also call and make an appointment to visit with them.Or, just send them a well written letter or email every month or so. Explain you are a local constituent and what specifically you are after. 

 

Part of the  gestalt of this thread  is that your state reps in the Bronx or their staff who you probably will first contact, might be lukewarm or worse to any pro-hunting initiatives you approach them with or ask them to support. However, being a strong advocate is only as hard as being better informed smarter than the opposition. If you read our articles about Patrick Kwan and Casey Pheifer, and see what these dorks look like, you might feel a little more comfortable. You might also get motivated when you realize it is basically two freaks running the show in NY who continue to succeed in reducing your opportunity to hunt. 

 

We also published an article which describes the attitude of a few legislators. As we continue to communicate with them, we continue to gain insight about them, that knowledge can be passed on to you to help you communicate with them, Being an advocate is not easy, but it isnt as bad as a visit to the dentist either. It just requires a little planning and common sense. 

[mike rossi]

Elmo,

 

At some point, we will be delivering a copy of our petition to each Legislator in their Albany office. Upon review of the petition lawmakers will determine how many signatories reside in their district. 

 

When Lawmakers are not in their Albany office, they are in their local office, in your case in the Bronx. A friendly visit to those local offices, or at least polite letters from a few of the signatories residing in their district, will have a positive impact.

 

The more cordial and better salesman local advocates are, the more positive the impact. Since you appear cordial, other than a few humane-endorsed reps, I can't imagine most of them slamming the door on you. I have to double check, but I don't think their are any humane - endorsed reps in the Bronx anyway, and,  as a matter of fact, some of the communications we have had with certain lawmakers  from the Bronx have been favorable. A visit or a letter from one of their constituents about the matter might be enough to persuade their vote or even sign on as a bill sponsor. 

 

 

[mike rossi]

Good luck finding the folks that are in it for the experience, and are willing to travel unlimited miles for such.

From the hunters I know living in NYC, we have much to juggle, and we don't need juggling additional burden on finances so that we can hunt a few birds that seemingly doesn't exist within 100 miles. The cost of owning a vehicle in NYC will pay for most hunts out west for most folks.

Most of us that are hunters and capable of a voice, are already overwhelmed on the abundant game, such as deer, squirrels, pheasant, rabbits, coyote, fox, gophers, etc.

In a city that where there are a million and one ways to spend one's expendable income, hunting is on the bottom of the totem pole for many.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

There are indeed limitations to predicting the personal decisions made by people on how they recreate or spend their discretionary income. A survey about the topic might provide fair insight, however, I am unaware of such a survey. NY Dove Hunting might do one in the future. We can put you down as one NYC person who will not pursue doves. Perhaps your opinion is widely shared among NYC hunters, but perhaps it is not. As already stated, we have an untested theory backed by logic, that a fair number of NYC hunters and potential NYC hunters would indeed benefit from a dove hunting season. 

 

Although NY Dove Hunting cannot dispute (your) theory about the above with any amount of certainty, we take issue with your repeated statement that there are not many doves proximate to NYC.

 

Perhaps the airline data will convince you. Mourning doves have taken down a number of airplanes in NY, including at Stewards, LaGuardia, and JFK airports. I believe all three of these airports are in close proximity to NYC, is that not correct Mr. Hu? 

 

In all of NY, there were 47 plane collision strikes with mourning doves between 6/29/12 and 1/16/15.

 

Please check out our report on NY airplane collisions with mourning doves at this link:

 

http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/airplane-strikes.html

[shawnhu]

There are indeed limitations to predicting the personal decisions made by people on how they recreate or spend their discretionary income. A survey about the topic might provide fair insight, however, I am unaware of such a survey. NY Dove Hunting might do one in the future. We can put you down as one NYC person who will not pursue doves. Perhaps your opinion is widely shared among NYC hunters, but perhaps it is not. As already stated, we have an untested theory backed by logic, that a fair number of NYC hunters and potential NYC hunters would indeed benefit from a dove hunting season.

Although NY Dove Hunting cannot dispute (your) theory about the above with any amount of certainty, we take issue with your repeated statement that there are not many doves proximate to NYC.

Perhaps the airline data will convince you. Mourning doves have taken down a number of airplanes in NY, including at Stewards, LaGuardia, and JFK airports. I believe all three of these airports are in close proximity to NYC, is that not correct Mr. Hu?

In all of NY, there were 47 plane collision strikes with mourning doves between 6/29/12 and 1/16/15.

Please check out our report on NY airplane collisions with mourning doves at this link:

http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/airplane-strikes.html

47 compared to how many collisions with geese, ducks, how about sparrows or the common rock dove? Two of the three airports you stated can't be hunted with guns, so it means little. Airplanes also fly considerably higher than what shotguns can reach. Again, also a statistic that means little to nothing.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

47 compared to how many collisions with geese, ducks, how about sparrows or the common rock dove? Two of the three airports you stated can't be hunted with guns, so it means little. Airplanes also fly considerably higher than what shotguns can reach. Again, also a statistic that means little to nothing.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Must be why i never see them on land we have on both ends of the state. At least it would not cost you thousands for shells like it would in other countries where you can set out in a lawn chair and blast at the birds that just seem to keep coming.

 

Chasing dove would be like chasing Woodcock i guess. 

[mike rossi]

Must be why i never see them on land we have on both ends of the state. At least it would not cost you thousands for shells like it would in other countries where you can set out in a lawn chair and blast at the birds that just seem to keep coming.

 

Chasing dove would be like chasing Woodcock i guess. 

 

You live next to Fort Drum if I recall? You also have said a few times both ruffed grouse and mourning dove are scarce or absent from your area, is that correct Mr. Reardon?

 

Here is a link from the Fort Drum wildlife management department. This is sightings during  September 2015. Go to page 3 and refer to column 1. From the top, go down to the six line, where it indicates ruffed grouse have been observed.Then, from the bottom, go up 14 lines, and it indicates mourning doves have been observed. 

 

http://fortdrum.isportsman.net/docs/default-source/wildlife-viewing-natural-history/wildlife-viewing-report-30sep2015.pdf?sfvrsn=0

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You live next to Fort Drum if I recall? You also have said a few times both ruffed grouse and mourning dove are scarce or absent from your area, is that correct Mr. Reardon?

 

Here is a link from the Fort Drum wildlife management department. This is sightings during  September 2015. Go to page 3 and refer to column 1. From the top, go down to the six line, where it indicates ruffed grouse have been observed.Then, from the bottom, go up 14 lines, and it indicates mourning doves have been observed. 

 

http://fortdrum.isportsman.net/docs/default-source/wildlife-viewing-natural-history/wildlife-viewing-report-30sep2015.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Observed and a hunting population are not even close to the same numbers.. Not Even Close.  

[hunterdan44]

Yonkers is not part of NYC!

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[BizCT]

I heard on an Argentinian Dove Hunt, you can shoot 40-50 doves with 1 shot. Crazy population.

[Elmo]

I met up with several NYC hunters last night as a meet and greet. I bought up the Dove Hunting cause on your behalf and mentioned about voting for regional representatives that are in favor of hunting. No exaggeration. Almost every single one of them responded with "there are mourning doves in NY? I've never seen any."

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

I met up with several NYC hunters last night as a meet and greet. I bought up the Dove Hunting cause on your behalf and mentioned about voting for regional representatives that are in favor of hunting. No exaggeration. Almost every single one of them responded with "there are mourning doves in NY? I've never seen any."

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Thats what you will get from 99% of the hunters out there i'm sure. Then ask them if they want a season?  To shoot what? The 1 or 2 that you may be lucky enough to see? I know the 1000's of acres i play on in 2 ends of the state are slim pickins if any.

[BizCT]

Here's the story of the dove shooting world record.

 

http://www.dovehuntinginargentina.org/dr-todd-white-dove-shooting-world-record.html

 

11,301 dove shot in 1 day by just 1 guy.

[ATbuckhunter]

Well I've seen plenty of dove in some of the areas I hunt that are close to NYC. In fact those spots are within an hour from NYC. I also see quite a few around my home and in my back yard in NYC. While I still believe that most NYC hunters prefer to hunt the more popular species, they would probably be willing to take some shots at dove. Many of us have never hunted them and we don't know how much fun it can be. We would have to introduce the dove hunting culture.

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[mike rossi]

Just as we tell people over and over:

 

1) It is not wise to compare dove hunting with deer hunting, but dove hunting should be compared with other activities which are legal in NY such as bear dog training, falconry, and trapping.... Refer to this article, including the graphs: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/is-lack-of-interest-credible.html

 

 

2) We also tell people that dove hunting in NY should not be compared with dove hunting in Argentina or even Texas. Instead, compare it with our borders, see this graph: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-hunting-activity--harvest-around-new-york--2012-2013-for-ontario-can-large-map.html

 

 

3) There is indeed a"hunt-able" population of modo in NY - there are more modo than the combined number of deer, turkey, and coyote. And they are found in every county. There are far more doves in NY than the common pigeon. Here is a graph comparing the nationwide distribution of mourning doves to the common pigeon: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-bbs-summer-distribution-map-vs-rock-dove-pigeon-bbs-summer-distribution-map.html

 

 

I think its about time a few of you start backing up your mouths with some data. You come on here and opine about things you know absolutely nothing about. Then when confronted, you back out of your own statements- for example FSW said he has not seen a dove from border to border or grouse in his area, However, FSW lives next door to fort drum. I posted a link which Fort drum wildlife biologists document both doves and grouse all the time. Now, FSW says he meant "huntable' populations. Maybe everyone should just ignore FSW until he learns how to speak in the exact context he means? 

 

Shwan HU indicated a lack of doves proximate to NYC. I explained that the hudson valley and NYC is in fact a significant migration corridor, but shawn hu dissed what I said and continued. So I posted a summary report of airplane crashes involving mourning doves in airports around NYC. Shawn Hu then disputes the merit of that summary. 

 

Yet, neither FSW nor Shawn Hu back up ANYTHING they say with any sort of verifiable data. In contrast, the info I provided can indeed be verified. I included source references in this thread, and our online material also includes source references as well for those inclined to fact check. 

 

Elmo, there are indeed  hunters who we need to educate. In your outreach efforts use the tools we have created for that purpose. Remember the power point slide show we created for addressing groups? We have a fact sheet you can print out and hand out as well. Face to face discussions are very important. If possible present with our power point, You can also print out business cards, fact sheets, and  targets to hand out, all of which will provide them with our online sites to go to for more info and to stay updated. Print out the petition as well, and get them to sign on the spot. You can also refer them to our newsletter you receive. Here is a link to our fact sheet: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-fact-sheet.html

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by mike rossi

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Just as we tell people over and over:

 

1) It is not wise to compare dove hunting with deer hunting, but dove hunting should be compared with other activities which are legal in NY such as bear dog training, falconry, and trapping.... Refer to this article, including the graphs: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/is-lack-of-interest-credible.html

 

 

2) We also tell people that dove hunting in NY should not be compared with dove hunting in Argentina or even Texas. Instead, compare it with our borders, see this graph: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-hunting-activity--harvest-around-new-york--2012-2013-for-ontario-can-large-map.html

 

 

3) There is indeed a"hunt-able" population of modo in NY - there are more modo than the combined number of deer, turkey, and coyote. And they are found in every county. There are far more doves in NY than the common pigeon. Here is a graph comparing the nationwide distribution of mourning doves to the common pigeon: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-bbs-summer-distribution-map-vs-rock-dove-pigeon-bbs-summer-distribution-map.html

 

 

I think its about time a few of you start backing up your mouths with some data. You come on here and opine about things you know absolutely nothing about. Then when confronted, you back out of your own statements- for example FSW said he has not seen a dove from border to border or grouse in his area, However, FSW lives next door to fort drum. I posted a link which Fort drum wildlife biologists document both doves and grouse all the time. Now, FSW says he meant "huntable' populations. Maybe everyone should just ignore FSW until he learns how to speak in the exact context he means? 

 

Shwan HU indicated a lack of doves proximate to NYC. I explained that the hudson valley and NYC is in fact a significant migration corridor, but shawn hu dissed what I said and continued. So I posted a summary report of airplane crashes involving mourning doves in airports around NYC. Shawn Hu then disputes the merit of that summary. 

 

Yet, neither FSW nor Shawn Hu back up ANYTHING they say with any sort of verifiable data. In contrast, the info I provided can indeed be verified. I included source references in this thread, and our online material also includes source references as well for those inclined to fact check. 

 

Elmo, there are indeed  hunters who we need to educate. In your outreach efforts use the tools we have created for that purpose. Remember the power point slide show we created for addressing groups? We have a fact sheet you can print out and hand out as well. Face to face discussions are very important. If possible present with our power point, You can also print out business cards, fact sheets, and  targets to hand out, all of which will provide them with our online sites to go to for more info and to stay updated. Print out the petition as well, and get them to sign on the spot. You can also refer them to our newsletter you receive. Here is a link to our fact sheet: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/mourning-dove-fact-sheet.html

Well let me verify you with this. 800 acre of prime Corn,Soybean,Creek bottoms,Swamp and woods, Hunting it for over 20 years, Next to the 106,000 military base that i can promise only a handful hunt birds on and its not Doves.  We have no Dove to speak of and for sure not a huntable population.

Let me verify 300 acres of property that has all the same features as above and borders Letchworth State Park of how many thousands of protected non bird hunting acres??  No Dove to speak of, If Any!

 

Let me verify the 1000 plus acres that we lease to cut mushroom hay from that is maybe 5 miles from Ft Drum, That the owner is involved in the Govt paid wildlife save the birds program of which he gets a very nice check$ from the Govt to provide prime bird nesting and growing areas and we see no Dove to speak of.

 

Now i dont really care what you have there and what google info you did up that there was a Dove here or there and if you have a huntable population in that area. If you o then great, Have at them but this area does not, 99.9% of hunters will say Doves? And look at your 3 heads.  Maybe Ny has the same counting rules on Dove as they do Whitetails. Who Knows. But what i do know is that the bird population of any game bird, on any of the 1000's of acres of prime game bird land, Is in the Shitter. 

 

I bet it was them damn Coyotes!  Just wait till i see another one of those things, I'll show him!

[mike rossi]

Well let me verify you with this. 800 acre of prime Corn,Soybean,Creek bottoms,Swamp and woods, Hunting it for over 20 years, Next to the 106,000 military base that i can promise only a handful hunt birds on and its not Doves.  We have no Dove to speak of and for sure not a huntable population.

Let me verify 300 acres of property that has all the same features as above and borders Letchworth State Park of how many thousands of protected non bird hunting acres??  No Dove to speak of, If Any!

 

Let me verify the 1000 plus acres that we lease to cut mushroom hay from that is maybe 5 miles from Ft Drum, That the owner is involved in the Govt paid wildlife save the birds program of which he gets a very nice check$ from the Govt to provide prime bird nesting and growing areas and we see no Dove to speak of.

 

Now i dont really care what you have there and what google info you did up that there was a Dove here or there and if you have a huntable population in that area. If you o then great, Have at them but this area does not, 99.9% of hunters will say Doves? And look at your 3 heads.  Maybe Ny has the same counting rules on Dove as they do Whitetails. Who Knows. But what i do know is that the bird population of any game bird, on any of the 1000's of acres of prime game bird land, Is in the Shitter. 

 

I bet it was them damn Coyotes!  Just wait till i see another one of those things, I'll show him!

 

Before I read all that, do you mean what you say or do you say what you mean this time? 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Before I read all that, do you mean what you say or do you say what you mean this time? 

I believe what i see with my eyes in my life and that sure aint Dove's.  That's a verified Fact!

[shawnhu]

I believe what i see with my eyes in my life and that sure aint Dove's. That's a verified Fact!

The guy is asking for help with his dove efforts, and as usual, takes offense when the truth is told about sightings and attitude most have towards hunting doves in proximity to NYC. Probably have a better chance at shooting a piebald near NYC than having a shot at a dove. But how reliable is the information being put forth by someone who can't seem to spell the names of the people he's trying to call out?

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[mike rossi]

Yeah, yeah.... Here is a partial report on this years Christmas Bird Count for mourning doves, done just this past week or so.... Note Location and in BOLD first number is doves seen, second number is hours in the blind. As I already said, December is not prime time to see mourning doves in NY because of migration and mortality. Numbers of resident and stop over doves in the fall are much greater. 

 

December 2015 Christmas Bird Count Mourning Dove – NY
Mourning Dove
Export to: PDF | Excel | Word | CSV
        

NYUD
Ulster-Dutchess 42.0280 -73.9537 486  4.2445 
NYOD
Oneida 43.0957 -75.6522 398  8.2062 
NYCT
Catskill-Coxsackie 42.2871 -73.8823 364  3.6129 
NYSI
Staten Island 40.5833 -74.1500 344  3.7189 
NYML
Mohonk Lake-Ashokan Reservoir 41.8516 -74.1292 332  3.6889 
NYCH
Conesus-Hemlock-Honeoye Lakes 42.7776 -77.6161 302  3.0200 
NYOO
Oak Orchard Swamp 43.1517 -78.3904 272  2.9405 
NYNN
L.I.: Northern Nassau County 40.8660 -73.5938 261  1.4978 
NYEO
Eastern Orange County 41.4811 -74.1473 232  2.4946 
NYSB
St. Bonaventure 42.1082 -78.4844 223  4.3092 
NYSY
Syracuse 43.1000 -76.0833 219  1.7951 
NYRC
Rockland County 41.1347 -73.9746 194  2.1202 
NYBM
Beaver Meadow 42.6757 -78.3721 148  3.4023 
NYCM
Chatham 42.3797 -73.6461 138  1.4681 
NYMT
Monticello 41.5678 -74.6321 137  3.0444 

NYOS

Oswego-Fulton 43.3983 -76.4742 102  1.6518 
NYRM
Rome 43.3035 -75.4732 78  2.9434 
NYSO
Scio 42.1668 -78.0667 66  2.5882 
NYWA
Watertown 44.0071 -75.9843 64  1.6495 
NYSL
Saranac Lake 44.3167 -74.0730 45  0.3830 
NYHP
Huyck Preserve 42.4980 -74.2170 15  0.3947

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yeah, yeah.... Here is a partial report on this years Christmas Bird Count for mourning doves, done just this past week or so.... Note Location and in BOLD first number is doves seen, second number is hours in the blind. As I already said, December is not prime time to see mourning doves in NY because of migration and mortality. Numbers of resident and stop over doves in the fall are much greater. 

 

December 2015 Christmas Bird Count Mourning Dove – NY

Mourning Dove

Export to: PDF | Excel | Word | CSV

        

NYUD

Ulster-Dutchess 42.0280 -73.9537 486  4.2445 

NYOD

Oneida 43.0957 -75.6522 398  8.2062 

NYCT

Catskill-Coxsackie 42.2871 -73.8823 364  3.6129 

NYSI

Staten Island 40.5833 -74.1500 344  3.7189 

NYML

Mohonk Lake-Ashokan Reservoir 41.8516 -74.1292 332  3.6889 

NYCH

Conesus-Hemlock-Honeoye Lakes 42.7776 -77.6161 302  3.0200 

NYOO

Oak Orchard Swamp 43.1517 -78.3904 272  2.9405 

NYNN

L.I.: Northern Nassau County 40.8660 -73.5938 261  1.4978 

NYEO

Eastern Orange County 41.4811 -74.1473 232  2.4946 

NYSB

St. Bonaventure 42.1082 -78.4844 223  4.3092 

NYSY

Syracuse 43.1000 -76.0833 219  1.7951 

NYRC

Rockland County 41.1347 -73.9746 194  2.1202 

NYBM

Beaver Meadow 42.6757 -78.3721 148  3.4023 

NYCM

Chatham 42.3797 -73.6461 138  1.4681 

NYMT

Monticello 41.5678 -74.6321 137  3.0444 

NYOS

Oswego-Fulton 43.3983 -76.4742 102  1.6518 

NYRM

Rome 43.3035 -75.4732 78  2.9434 

NYSO

Scio 42.1668 -78.0667 66  2.5882 

NYWA

Watertown 44.0071 -75.9843 64  1.6495 

NYSL

Saranac Lake 44.3167 -74.0730 45  0.3830 

NYHP

Huyck Preserve 42.4980 -74.2170 15  0.3947

That Splain's it. Huntable Population's?

Edited January 14, 2016 by Four Season Whitetails

[shawnhu]

That Splain's it. Huntable Population's?

He's already listed Staten Island, where I'm sure goes into the huntable population statistics.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[ATbuckhunter]

The guy is asking for help with his dove efforts, and as usual, takes offense when the truth is told about sightings and attitude most have towards hunting doves in proximity to NYC. Probably have a better chance at shooting a piebald near NYC than having a shot at a dove. But how reliable is the information being put forth by someone who can't seem to spell the names of the people he's trying to call out?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

What would you consider close proximity to NYC? Would that be with in 2 hours? I'm not coming at you or anything, Im just curious as to what some people consider close to NYC. 

[shawnhu]

What would you consider close proximity to NYC? Would that be with in 2 hours? I'm not coming at you or anything, Im just curious as to what some people consider close to NYC.

Close proximity would be an hour. Anything more, would need a good reason for the extra travel time.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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