Jawbone Experts

[The_Real_TCIII]

Can you tell me if this is a 1.5?

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[Gencountyzeek]

Well I'm not a expert, but that looks like a young one. Teeth are not worn, still coming to a point.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Right but theres something about the number of teeth from 1.5 and older that I can never understand, was hoping someone could point it out on this

[The_Real_TCIII]

Using this image I think its 2.5

 

 

[The_Real_TCIII]

The pre molars arent worn because theyre new, a 1.5 has wear on them. I know I'm answering my own question via google but thought it was still interesting to share

[Gencountyzeek]

Definitely interesting,  it's got me watching a qdma video on YouTube now.

[The_Real_TCIII]

This will keep you awake at night if you only hunt "Mature deer": 

5-1/2; Years and Older:

In most hunted deer populations, less than two percent of the animals are more than five years of age. Accurately aging these deer by tooth wear is usually more of a guessing game than a science. In general, deer close to 5-1/2; years of age will show considerable wear on the premolars, and the first cusp of the fourth cheek tooth (first molar) will be dished out or show signs of "cupping."

[The_Real_TCIII]

Heres the site im looking at

 

http://www.fffnj.com/fgw/howtoagedeer.html

[dbHunterNY]

always look at the lingual side of the jaw (tongue side with higher crests or mountain peaks) and not the buccal side.  now a deer with have 3 premolars and 3 molars per side fully erupted if not a fawn, which you've got. 
you're talking tooth replacement.  up to around 1.5 years old a deer can have 3 cusps (sectional bump outs) to the third tooth back (3rd pre-molar).  at around 19 months, still considered a yearling but late in the season, the 3 premolars that were baby teeth would be lost and replaced with adult premolars.  now the 3rd tooth back (last premolar) will have only 2 cusps (as yours does).  premolars will look whiter with no staining at all though to the point where it looks those first three teeth are perfect and fake.

also the lingual crest (mountain peaks) will still appear very much pointed and "sharp", unless jaggedly broken off.  you've only taken a side photo but at this point you'd look at the dentine width compared to the enamel width and less importantly the sharpness of the 4th tooth back.  enamel is the outer, white, hard portion of the crests (tongue side of mountain peaks).  dentine is darker line right next to it.  you'd move back tooth by tooth.  each time the dentine is wider then the enamel you add a year to 2.5 yrs old.

wear is a progression and not finite within the same age class.  you're looking at small teeth too.  if you're on the fence, often times it helps to look at teeth after and possibly before it for what would be a logical progression of wear.  another fence shaker is the last cusp of the last molar.  you'd look at the surface profile and exposure of dentine, both indicating wear.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Gencountyzeek said:

Definitely interesting,  it's got me watching a qdma video on YouTube now.

that's a great resource that'd get you really close.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

The pre molars arent worn because theyre new, a 1.5 has wear on them. I know I'm answering my own question via google but thought it was still interesting to share

one top view but you're looking at 2.5-3.5 yrs old.  definitely not 1.5 yrs old but look at my first post.

[dbHunterNY]

can't seem to edit...... meant to say "NO top view...."

[The_Real_TCIII]

Theyre clean because this deer was sent out to a beetle guy and then bleached. Ill add a top view. I appreciate your input. Id say no chance he was 3.5 he probably weighed 135ish

[The_Real_TCIII]

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[The_Real_TCIII]

Here's another buck, teeth look exactly the same to me


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[dbHunterNY]

hard see things with the washed out teeth, especially for the second buck.  a couple other things I can't see well with for the first that would push me one way or the other.  pre-boiling as long as the teeth are cleaned out of food matter is easier tell where something stops and ends.  idk how big the first buck was, but it looks like it could be 3.5 yrs old.  2nd buck is pretty hard to tell from that picture, tops of teeth are just a white blob.  cusp all the way in the back (far right) doesn't look to have much of any dentine showing.  also it doesn't appear to be worn to or beyond concavity.  could be 2.5 but nothing I'd put money on.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Theyre clean because this deer was sent out to a beetle guy and then bleached. Ill add a top view. I appreciate your input. Id say no chance he was 3.5 he probably weighed 135ish

pulled the pictures up on my bright computer screen.  looking at the first top photo it's hard to tell wear on the last cusp.  dentine is borderline.  second photo of your top view there's barely any wear or dentine showing on the last cusp which would say 2.5 yrs old.  I agree weight wise is not typically heavy enough for 3.5 yrs old.

[dbHunterNY]

second buck doesn't appear 3.5 yrs old either, despite I still can't tell dentine width, even on the computer bigger brighter screen.

[dbHunterNY]

another take away you should get from this is if you want to know the age down to the exact year the jawbone, weight, antler size, and other pieces to the puzzle can all be lump in together to get an answer.  there's some on here that claim looking at a jawbone is BS when people on the fence by a difference of one year.  that's like them handing you a single piece to a puzzle, asking what it's a picture of right down to the description on the box, and then saying there see you can't figure it out.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Both bucks were same body size, bases, etc definitely not older than 2.5


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[dbHunterNY]

I agree with you.  that said nothing with deer is definite.  weight can vary especially depending on the time of season it was harvested.  we've had confirmed 2.5 yr old bucks range from 120lb to 170's.  3.5 year olds from high 140's to high 180's.  I've seen an ohio 4.5 year old rack no bigger than the second photo for whatever reason.  it dressed out just over 200lbs and jawbone was obviously older.