Columbia University students heckled a war hero

[steve863]

Couldn't agree more.  The general public prefers to see the average hunter as a gun-crazy, ultra-conservative, bible-beating loon.  Challenging these sterotypes benefits us all.

What do you think would make a more positive impression on the non-hunters out there ??  Having a self-professed right-winger talk about the positive virtues of hunting or someone who is NOT associated with any such ideology?  If there would only be someone brave enough out there who is not a pawn of any particular ideology and yet enjoys hunting who would want to speak out on it's behalf!  That would be the best damned representative we could hope for.  Of course many on the right would in short order try to find something on him, just so that THEY could lay claim to being the representatives.  Just like you see here on this forum.  God help those who actually can understand why the other side might think the way they do.  Some here would never even want to hunt with the likes of us or let us anywhere near their hunting camp!  LOL

[Mr VJP]

I can understand why the other side thinks like they do, and I am more than prepared to engage in a calm, collected, intellectual debate with them, if they are of like mind regarding a debate.

What I don't understand is how some on this side of the issue don't have the ability to handle a debate on behalf of their chosen beliefs.

Nothing will cause you to lose a debate with the other side faster than not knowing what you are talking about.

Once again, most of the public does not think what you think they do.

[Mr VJP]

the real problem: the utter disdain for the military  instilled by too many in academia and popular culture and proven by the misbehavior of Columbia students toward an American Patriot who deserves  their profound respect.

Another sad attempt to paint anyone with an education or an opinion that you don't agree with as UnAmerican.

You guys are preaching to choir on this one.  Noone on this thread has defended the actions of the students at Columbia- only their right to express themselves. 

Utter disdain for our military is patriotic now?  And don't try to say it isn't there.

:

[Mr VJP]

Public Opinion on Hunting is pretty good.

http://www.responsivemanagement.com...unting.pdf

[Mr VJP]

General Overview

About three-quarters of Americans support hunting. One nationwide survey found that 77% of adult Americans approve of legal hunting (45% strongly approve), while 16% disapprove (Figure 1) (RM2006c).

Another nationwide study found that 75% of adult Americans approve of legal hunting (48%strongly approve), while 17% disapprove (RM 2003b).

In these surveys, the term, “legal hunting,” was used to ensure that respondents would not confuse the term, “hunting,” to include poaching and other types of illegal hunting, as focus group research has found that many people include these forms of illegal hunting in their conception of the term, “hunting” (RM 1993a).

In a nationwide survey that asked a question specifically about the legality of hunting, 81% of adult Americans agree that hunting should continue to be legal (RM 1995).

[nyantler]

VJP.. you are really wasting your breath on these guys.. they are not about reality or facts... they think with their hearts and not their heads... which is ok when picking a wife but not so good when faced with the real world... .. you must be exhausted from talking to the wall... because I have read every post and these guys haven't listened to a single word you have said... you can tell by their responses which have no basis as a debate.. They do however get the award for most whinning about you calling them unamerican, or announcing how your premises are so flawed.. oh and and the ever so special "you should have respect for other peoples opinions" post.

No facts .. no data.. nothing about reality.. only what they think... so save your breath for someone like Doc.. who I seldom agree with but at least offers an intellectual debate and is respectful.

[Mr VJP]

I appreciate your concern NY, but I'm just typing replies.  I'm not breathing hard.  I'm not even breaking a sweat.

;D

I have this emergency lifesaving training that kicks in when I see someone in danger, and always hope there is some hope of rescue.  Heck, even bridge jumpers will try and attack you if you try to talk them down.  People will attack you when you try to push them out of the way of a speeding bus.  But when they realize you probably saved their life, they (sometimes) will appreciate it.

I just wish more Americans would realize this country is in grave danger and we need to address it now.  The future will be too late.

[nyantler]

I agree

[arrowflinger]

I just wish more Americans would realize this country is in grave danger and we need to address it now.  The future will be too late.

OMG...the sky is falling! :

[nyantler]

Yet.. another childish response.. see? thats what I'm talking about

[arrowflinger]

Yet.. another childish response.. see? thats what I'm talking about

You guys cannot expect serious discussion when you throw out ridiculous hyperbole such as the country is in "grave danger."

We were in "grave danger" during the Cuban missile crisis.

We were in "grave danger" during the economic meltdown.

What, exactly, are we in "grave danger" from now?  Another American's political views?  Really? 

Its ridiculous.

[nyantler]

That's exactly what we expect... serious discussion. Thats how adults debate... your childish responses are the reason you have gotten no respect here..

[arrowflinger]

That's exactly what we expect... serious discussion. Thats how adults debate... your childish responses are the reason you have gotten no respect here..

You didn't answer my questions, you merely insulted me.

You cannot desire a serious discussion when you only hurl insults.

I am not particularly concerned if you respect me or not, to be completely honest.

[Mr VJP]

A short list of grave dangers:

Massive National Debt.

Massive Budget Deficits.

Massive Trade deficit.

Massive Unemployment.

Oil and gasoline prices climbing out of control.

Crime on the rise nationwide.

Gun control escalation nationwide.

Two wars going and threats from Nuclear enemies like North Korea and Iran.

Illegal immigration.

Terrorist plots to kill us.

Deflation.

Jobs leaving the nation.

Massive foreclosures.

Corruption of the political system.

Decay of the military's readiness.

Open Borders.

States going bankrupt.

Major drug use.

Attacks on the US Constitution by the Government.

AIDS and other diseases on the rise.

Potential for another Civil War.

Rumors of institution of Martial Law.

Each one of the above, being barely manageable on it's own, combine into a danger to this country, the likes of which have never been seen before.  Do you not feel any anxiety over any of this at all?  Are you on Prozac?

[arrowflinger]

A short list of grave dangers:

Massive National Debt.

Massive Budget Deficits.

These are not suddenly new issues.  Every administration I can remember ran a deficit, except Clinton.  And he was just lucky to ride a wave of economic prosperity.I agree that spending more than you earn is a real problem.  I agree the nation needs to be more fiscally conservative, and that it should be a top priority.  I realize that sacrifices MUST be made....I am OK with that.

Massive Trade deficit.

Again, not a new problem.  The trade gap has been closing recently, and will really shrink if China allows its money to move.  There will always be winners in every economy, including the global economy.  My company has benefited greatly from global trade.....we sell far more product oversees than in North America, and sales to China were instrumental in keeping us profitable during the recession.

Massive Unemployment.

This recession has been horrific.  But its not the first one, or the last one, that the nation has experienced and survived.  Our unemployment is historically high.....we are still far better than most nations.  It will get better.

Oil and gasoline prices climbing out of control.

Crime on the rise nationwide.

I don't think this is true.

Gun control escalation nationwide.

I don't think this is true either.  On the national level, the Dems have lost their stomach for gun control fights.  The Supreme Court is ruling in favor of the 2nd.  We are in better shape than we have been for a long time.

Two wars going and threats from Nuclear enemies like North Korea and Iran.

The wars will end, eventually.  They are expensive, in the loss of our brave soldiers and in dollars.  You can argue that we shouldn't have started them, if you want, but the fact is that we are.  But not forever.North Korea and Iran cannot attack the US mainland.  The best they can do is cause trouble elsewhere.  They are not a direct threat to the US.

Illegal immigration.

Yup.....its a problem.  I don't think it is a "dire threat" to the stability of the country.  I expect progress on the issue over the next few years.

Terrorist plots to kill us.

Absolutely.  This is why the war on terror is important. Still, it is unlikely that terrorists can bring down the country.  They can wound us....like 911....but they cannot defeat the spirit of our nation.

Deflation.

Haven't seen it yet.

Jobs leaving the nation.

Specifically "Manufacturing" jobs.  Job growth still exists in our nation, but it is increasingly out of reach of those who do not have college educations.

Massive foreclosures.

The worst is behind us.

Corruption of the political system.

How so?  Besides the normal partisan whining, please.

Decay of the military's readiness.

We have the greatest, most powerful military in the world.  No one couldinvade the US and defeat the American Military.  No one.

Open Borders.

Already covered, between illegal immigration and terrorism

States going bankrupt.

Yup - states will need to control spending just as the nation does.

Major drug use.

Drug use peaked in the 70's and 80's, I believe.  It has obviously been a problem for a long time.

Attacks on the US Constitution by the Government.

Like what....the Patriot Act?  Be specific.

AIDS and other diseases on the rise.

Aids is in decline, actually.  The world has never been better positioned to address and cure disease.

Each one of the above, being barely manageable on it's own, combine into a danger to this country, the likes of which have never been seen before.  Do you not feel any anxiety over any of this at all?  Are you on Prozac?

[Mr VJP]

Well, you are obviously a glass half full kind of guy.  That's good for you.  It will lower your stress level and keep you healthier.  Which is good, because if I am right about America's future, you will need all the strength you can muster in order to survive.

[arrowflinger]

Well, you are obviously a glass half full kind of guy.  That's good for you.  It will lower your stress level and keep you healthier.  Which is good, because if I am right about America's future, you will need all the strength you can muster in order to survive.

If you are wrong, you have wasted all of your energy worrying for nothing.

What would propose be done to save America from your "dire threats," besides worry?

[Mr VJP]

Stock up on guns and ammo and do not let the Government take them from you.  It may be all you have left that will be of any value to you when everything collapses.

Hopefully you are right and things will not fall as bad as I think, but better to be prepared just in case it does.

This is why I feel any infringements on gun owners rights may be a major threat to your future survival, and unless you commit a violent crime with a gun, you should have a right to currently own whatever gun, and whatever amount of ammo, you like.

You mentioned the Cuban missile crises of the 60's.  I lived through that.  The scenario could've turned on a dime.  And believe me, nobody had a glass half full opinion of the issue at the time.  Any of the issues I listed above have similar potential to turn on a dime.  Look at the Middle East today.  Two years ago no one would have thought today's events were possible either.  It pays to use foresight and be prepared.

I don't see it as wasted energy, because it invigorates me.  Men born to freedom naturally rebel against threats to liberty.  It's good for my health to stay sharp and alert.  It's not stressful, because it's not a surprise, it's expected and prepared for.

[arrowflinger]

It is difficult for me to assign the same threat level to illegal immigration as global annihilation.

One of the things that worries me most is that ultra right wing nut jobs who are planning for the government's collapse actually instigates the government's collapse.

What some consider patriotic speech, I view as blatant treason.

[nyantler]

That's exactly what we expect... serious discussion. Thats how adults debate... your childish responses are the reason you have gotten no respect here..

You didn't answer my questions, you merely insulted me.

You cannot desire a serious discussion when you only hurl insults.

I am not particularly concerned if you respect me or not, to be completely honest.

That was no insult... just observation... and I didn't see any particular question you were asking that pertained to this thread

[nyantler]

I noticed that many of your responses to VJP's list of dangers all started with "I don't think".. here again it doesn't matter what you think only what is really happening... just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.. many of the America's dangers haven't reached my yet either... but that doesn't erase their existence and a need to do something about them

[arrowflinger]

That's exactly what we expect... serious discussion. Thats how adults debate... your childish responses are the reason you have gotten no respect here..

You didn't answer my questions, you merely insulted me.

You cannot desire a serious discussion when you only hurl insults.

I am not particularly concerned if you respect me or not, to be completely honest.

That was no insult... just observation... and I didn't see any particular question you were asking that pertained to this thread

How about this one?

What, exactly, are we in "grave danger" from now?  Another American's  political views?  Really? 

It was in post 35....you know the very post before you called me childish and insinuated I am not worthy of respect.

Most would consider the comments insulting.

You should practice what you preach.

[nyantler]

I said what question have you asked me that has anything to do with the topic of this thread.. pay attention

[arrowflinger]

I noticed that many of your responses to VJP's list of dangers all started with "I don't think".. here again it doesn't matter what you think only what is really happening... just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.. many of the America's dangers haven't reached my yet either... but that doesn't erase their existence and a need to do something about them

And what do you plan to "do" about them?

[arrowflinger]

I said what question have you asked me that has anything to do with the topic of this thread

Nice dodge.