Interesting read on scrapes and dominant buck

[nybuckboy]

Stonycreek Whitetails

This is a question from Berney - "i have a question. i have killed a few bucks by grunting them in but never really have had much luck with scents. i am sure its because i am using them wrong. my question is when and where should i use estrus and or tarsel glands or a combo of the tw...o. just tryin to make myself a better hunter. thanks."

Hi Berney and thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain the differences in the two scent products and tactics you are asking about.

First, I would like to explain exactly what "estrus" is in order to help you have a better understanding of what you are using and when best to use it. There are two different types of estrous or estrus scents that are available and can be collected from a whitetail doe. The first scent is estrous - notice the spelling. Estrous is a reproductive cycle in the whitetail doe that only happens during periods of the year when there is longer periods of darkness in 24 hours. This time frame for estrous is usually from the fall (autumnal) equinox through to the spring (Vernal) equinox. The increase in darkness of over 12 hours a day during this time triggers an increase in melatonin production, thus triggering reproductive readiness in polyestrous animals such as deer, goats and foxes, among several others. The estrous cycle is much like a menstrual cycle and is a 26-28 day process leading to estrus/heat/menstruation.

The second type of Estrus - notice the spelling, is a short period of 12-24 hours that happens only once during a doe's 26-28 day estrous cycle. This is indeed when the doe is in heat and in reality is the truest form of estrus.

A lot of scent manufactures unknowingly market one or the other under false terms. What I mean by this is, unless you actually know the difference in these to words, as they both sound alike, you really cant effectively begin to use them.

To summarize the two types of estrous/estrus scents:

Doe "estrous" scents are collected from a doe during her 26-28 day estrous cycle. The estrous cycle in a doe only happens during the fall and winter months.

Doe "estrus" scents are collected from a doe during her 12-24 hours of heat/estrus, which only happens once every 26-28 days and only during the period between the fall and spring equinox. I can assure that there are no fresh (collected this year) estrus scents available until the end of September.

I hope this helps you understand the difference in the two. A lot of scent companies will collect urine all year long. When purchasing doe scents, you need to make sure you are getting either estrous or even better - estrus scents. This will make all the difference in the success of your hunt while using scents.

Now that you have a better understanding of what the doe scents are, lets move on to the next part of your question and that being when and how to best utilize scents.

Using estrous or estrus scents too early is much like using your brand new hen call way before turkey season. All you are doing is educating the ol' tom to your tactics. Just like that ol' Tom, mature buck are pretty sharp animals. I really don't like to or recommend using estrous/estrus scent much before the week before Halloween. None of the doe in the woods are in heat/estrus in September - so this is something totally unnatural and more than likely will spook an older mature buck.

However, during pre-rut the older mature buck are working on establishing territory. I feel we as hunters are not taking full advantage of this time by challenging buck to territorial wars. What I mean by this is, often times around the first week of October we will start noticing scrapes being made. I feel these are territorial markings made by dominant buck who are claiming their territory. When I find an area that has two or more scrapes I immediately start looking for rubs. If I find an area that has two or more scrapes with rubs in close proximity I feel this is where two buck are challenging each other. This is where I will come in and create a mock scrape with buck urine. After all, it's the same thing a real buck does when he makes a scrape, right? So now I feel I am adding interest in this area and have upped my chances that one of the two buck will pay more attention to this area in hopes of finding the "other" buck that is challenging them. Its now an area of interest.

Should I come back and hunt later that day and not see anything, I will hunt that area again in the morning. If I still don't see anything that morning then I will inspect the area for new signs that may have been placed over night. If I find that the scrapes are hit and new rubs in the area, then I know I got the ol boys attention. I will freshen my scrape, never putting any urine in his scrape as this would be a sign of submission. Then I will hunt again that evening and it is usually at this time when I get my first glimpse of the buck.

If I don't end up with a shot, I will keep the mock scrape active, hunting 3 days on and 3 days off. As Halloween approaches and I still have not got a shot and there is still a lot of new sign in the area, then and only then will I bring in estrous scent. I will use drag rags with one having buck urine on it and the other having estrous urine on it. I will drag a few scent trails mocking that of a buck chasing a doe. Think about this for a moment. You are in your house (your territory) and another guy is chasing you girlfriend or wife... Your are going to be fighting mad, right? That is what we want to do to the buck - make him take life threatening chances to show himself more often and during the day. We want this area to become priority number one where all he can think about is finding the buck that is chasing his doe.

That is how we use scents. Scents are tools that allow you to become the deer and communicate on their level. I have yet to see a deer climb a tree and urinate 20 feet off the ground. I have yet to see a deer cock his leg and pee on a tree. I do however see buck making scrapes and urinating in them. Give the mock scrape a try - you might be pleasantly surprised!

I have left the tarsals to the end as I feel they are not as important, or more like a marketing scheme. I raise deer and I have yet figured out how to get my deer to grow back the tarsal glands after I cut them off. Yea, I could go to a slaughter shop and buy up all the tarsals, but that is just a hunk of dead flash. I might as well take some raw hamburger to the woods and hang in a tree and then squirt scents on it - it is basically accomplishing the same thing.

I do feel tarsals on a live animal are important but as soon as the blood stops flowing through them, they are nothing more than a hunk of rotting, stinking, dead flesh.

As far as tinctures go, what most companies label as tarsal scents, they too are nothing more than a tarsal gland soaked in alcohol for months and then filtered. Tinctures work great for predators that feed on rotting flesh. However, I am not convinced they are that effective on deer, IMHO.

I think that if a hunter sticks with the 3 basic scents - buck urine, doe estrous urine and doe estrus urine he is more likely to harvest a mature buck year after year. After all, these are the same three scents used day in and day out to communicate by the real deer we are trying to hunt.

I hope this long winded post helps you understand a little more about using scent products more effectively. I wish you all the best and look forward to discussing further any questions you may have.

Good luck this season and happy hunting,

John Swank

[cbx46]

Very Very interesting

[sodfather]

Good thanks for the post.

[MountainHunter]

I found that interesting.

[pawle76]

Good Stuff

[mjac]

Why not setup a trail cam on a new scrape and you can then better track his routine with the picture time stamps and see if the buck stays within a certain time pattern ? I gave up on then scents. I have never had any luck using them, and I'm really not too sure what they are putting in those jars ! Pictures don't lie

[Deerthug]

Interesting indeed! Picked up some code blue estrous today and I am going to use it this weekend hoping to bring in a big buck to my stand.

[StripedBuck]

Thanks for the read, very informative. I have used those scents for years and have had both bucks and doe's come into them during certain conditions, they do work!

Good luck!!

[Deerguy]

Very interesting and educating

[accman]

Great Read. Don't forget to set up a drag line as you walk in. I've had them walk up, nose to the ground, and follow the exact path you came in on. I'll be trying a little bit this week and will start using the bleets. Hopefully, they'll be a little more aggressive. Have seen them in heavy cover this year, but they seem a little skittish.