Muskrats population male rats dominate?

[Kludes]

Thoughts please this years trapping 3 different places 25to muskrats all male not one female maybe me but looks like that could be our problem with rat population decline......same problem in Florida with gator population mainly male .....???? Water quality

[Doc]

Interesting. I wonder what the regional DEC biologists would say if you told them about this observation. how do you suppose they would explain it? You might want to send them an e-mail.

[mike rossi]

Thats pretty strange! Pollution is suspected to change sex of amphibians, lets hope not with muskrats!

I would hedge my bet that the sex ratio is skewed towards males because the females are more heavily effected by predation while rearing young, but thats just a guess.

It is believed male rats have bigger home ranges / territories & move more, and therefore more likely to get trapped, but since you got 100% males that doent seem likely. Some diseases are gender specific too, but that assumption would also be a huge leap of faith.

Hopefully it is just an extreme odd role of the dice. Muskrats, like alot of plant eaters have fluctuating population cycles. The 10 year peak & valley cycle of snowshoe hares is known to alot of people. However muskrats also have a population cycle, I believe it is 12 years, but Im not sure.

I trap too. This season every rat I caught was large or xlarge. Great from the standpoint of more valuable fur. But it is telling a story. An ageing population (few or zero juveniles) indicates that population is on the down swing. Could be the areas I trapped this year are approaching the bottom of the cycle, and may not peak again for 12 or 13 years!

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

There is a study ngoing on now with muskrats. Biologist Scott Smith is heading it up. They are dtermining the decreasing numbers in the state. Kludes, you are the only one to mention this, but I did notice more of a take in males than females this year.

[Kludes]

Went to a fur auction yesterday good outcome with sales talked around not many people look at what sex a rat is and people said maybe female rats were in the huts idk but 4 rats in late November were male not primed but carcass are of good use then 21 rats late January early febuary all male 4 different locations 1 pond no houses 2 holes 2 males ....

[Pistol Pete]

If you tell the DEC they will have to do a 5 year study. Like Hog weed they study it for 5 years before they tryed to kill it.Now its still growing! CRW Study it for 5 years Can you say waste. They pay people to walk the shores of lakes doing creal counts.The DEC could't manage a herd of gerbils at a Michael Jackson house party!!

[Pistol Pete]

If you tell the DEC they will have to do a 5 year study. Like Hog weed they study it for 5 years before they tryed to kill it.Now its still growing! cwd Study it for 5 years Can you say waste. They pay people to walk the shores of lakes doing creal counts.The DEC could't manage a herd of gerbils at a Michael Jackson house party!!

[mike rossi]

Went to a fur auction yesterday good outcome with sales talked around not many people look at what sex a rat is and people said maybe female rats were in the huts idk but 4 rats in late November were male not primed but carcass are of good use then 21 rats late January early febuary all male 4 different locations 1 pond no houses 2 holes 2 males ....

The current rat study may include determining if the females are denned up; to do this would require live capture and use of telemetry. A study like that would take every bit of 5 years. Before someone growls how broke the DEC is; the DEC has wildlife restoration funds to the tune of 14 million dollars ANNUALLY; for this sort of study.

Lets say it is found that in the areas studied; the sex ratio is not skewed toward females; rather it is concluded that it is because the females are in the huts; there would be no management implications and no relevant data to prove or disprove a declining muskrat population. All this would do is disprove a skewed sex ratio. So the study would continue to look for other explainations.

[Doc]

So yesterday, I went over to the creek/swamp that I spent quite a few years of my youth trapping muskrats. I was doing a bit of scouting for setting up my new trailcam for some wildlife photos. I don't know why I never noticed it earlier, but it appears that the muskrat population has fallen to near zero. None of the sign that that area used to be filled with. No droppings on logs, no houses, no trails through the underwater weeds, no feeding stations, pretty much nothing! And from what I am seeing on this thread, it appears that this situation is not very unique across the state. And yet nobody seems to know why. I would think that authorities would be very concerned about the potential demise of a whole species.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

They are Doc. Studies are happening now.

[Doc]

They are Doc. Studies are happening now.

That's good news, but I have to wonder if it isn't a bit like shutting the barn door after the cow's out. I have to believe that this situation didn't develop over night. It's pretty radical out our way, and while there seems to be no dramatic changes in theother populations of water critters, the muskrat situation is very obvious and should have been showing up in state fur sales. I assume that the DEC monitors that to some extent. Oh well, probably better late than never. Let's hope that they can find something reversible and maybe bring these things back before they disappear entirely. I know muskrats are super-prolific just like any other rodent, so whatever the problem is, it must be pretty darn serious.

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

You could say that Doc, but in some parts of the state guys are having great success. I think it has alot to do with the water. In many areas like mine, we have had almost drought conditions. And with the mild winter the water table is already low...

On a better note the GVTA had a great turn out in this past weekends fur auction. $50 fox. $12 muskrats

[mike rossi]

That's good news, but I have to wonder if it isn't a bit like shutting the barn door after the cow's out. I have to believe that this situation didn't develop over night. It's pretty radical out our way, and while there seems to be no dramatic changes in theother populations of water critters, the muskrat situation is very obvious and should have been showing up in state fur sales. I assume that the DEC monitors that to some extent. Oh well, probably better late than never. Let's hope that they can find something reversible and maybe bring these things back before they disappear entirely. I know muskrats are super-prolific just like any other rodent, so whatever the problem is, it must be pretty darn serious.

With some species it does happen too late. Remember all the wild pheasant? I am not sure we learned our lesson! Right now woodcock have issues (although just recently there has been some "stabilization). We all ignored the ringnecks just 2 or 3 decades ago, and we are doing that NOW with woodcock. Hopefully not the case with rats.

The current director of the DEC is not a knothead like Granis, his immediate predesor. Granis, former lawmaker, a NYC lawyer, was appointed by Spitzer, former governor and womanizer, also a NYC lawyer. Before heading up the DEC while a lawmaker, Pete Granis introduced & sponsored multiple anti-trapping bills over a several year period. Apparently, Granis' idea of protecting furbearers was protecting individual animals and affording them human or legal rights. Anyway, under the DEC's new leadership, hopefully scientists can practice science.

[Doc]

Not wanting to stray too far off topic, but I have to say, what bothers me the most is that I wonder if the DEC even has the resources to do a proper study. And if they do, do they have the resources to do anything about what they find? I know the department has been heavily stripped of their budget. Has the state government finally gone to the point where the DEC couldn't respond to a species emergency if they had to? It's these little situations that hide in the background while everyone focuses on the deer herd that makes you wonder if they have been stripped beyond the point of performing their full mandates.

[mike rossi]

Not wanting to stray too far off topic, but I have to say, what bothers me the most is that I wonder if the DEC even has the resources to do a proper study. And if they do, do they have the resources to do anything about what they find? I know the department has been heavily stripped of their budget. Has the state government finally gone to the point where the DEC couldn't respond to a species emergency if they had to? It's these little situations that hide in the background while everyone focuses on the deer herd that makes you wonder if they have been stripped beyond the point of performing their full mandates.

All I know, is that the federal funding we discussed on this & other threads, has specific uses, and one specified use is research. Colleges that offer wildlife studies have other types of funding as well & do cooberate with state game & fish agencies. Any management prescriptions derived from research can also be funded with the wildlife restoration funds (hence the name}. Whether it is beyond the point of no return cant be determined until it is studied.

If we had to rely on the general budget for wildlife, all would be lost back in the 1930's when congressman Pitman, Robinson, Dingal, Johnson and (Walpaux?) had the foresight to recognize that & passed the wildlife restoration act & subsequent ammendments, which collect an excise tax on guns, ammo, and some other hunting and fishing gear.

Allthough it is not the only determinant; the priorities of how resources are used does factor in what the public wants. Lets be serious - most people in the state of NY dont care about muskrats, including most hunters.

[Kludes]

We'll this drought is not what our muskrat population needed at all probably took a good hit in low waters this year bye predators... wouldn't bother me if they closed it this year to help rebound with the added stress ... but good luck fellas and remember leave some for breeders this year

[landtracdeerhunter]

I recently took a trapper ed coarse, and a statement the instructors said is still bothering me. They said no matter how hard a person traps an area, you cannot eliminate the population of a certain species. I disagree with them. Am I right or wrong? Back in the 70's, never give it any concern on the trap line. We were in a wet cycle with weather. Today with the drought conditions - dry cycle, things are different.

Edited September 30, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[mike rossi]

Did someone say pollution? If you think your water trapline is polluted you can find out in five seconds....

http://watersgeo.epa.gov/mywaterway/mywaterway.html

Another note: If you think this is bad, wait until we have fracked NY for 5 or 10 years...