Doc

Well, perhaps a tin foil hat might help protect your head while it is stuck in the sand. While you are trying to play the role of the lone voice of sanity, the animal rights people have already shown that such activity is not only feasible, but is in use. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/10/01/animal-activists-using-drones-for-aerial-surveillance/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2013/apr/16/animal-rights-activists-will-use-airborne-drones-s/ http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html And also, there are some other states that are taking the threat quite seriously and acting preemptively: http://clevelandaerialmedia.com/blogs/news/13144969-eyes-in-the-air-states-move-to-ban-drone-assisted-hunting

Think about this..... A NYS guide service might find it very well worth his couple thousand bucks to be able to advertise guaranteed hunts, maybe even using public lands where he may be the only one there with his own personal "eye in the sky".

It may be a bit hard for you to understand, but when a person comes off like a raving fool, it becomes obvious that they are not interested in becoming either educated or informed. At that point it is obvious that such attempts are simply a waste of breath and time. You may not have noticed, but this thread has already moved around you. Discussions have moved to being between reasonable people. Sorry, but I just have to tell you like it is. You are already becoming irrelevant within your own thread.

I was introduced to archery with a very well made carved hickory longbow that I made with my own hands at the age of 11. It downed it's first game up in the loft of our barn with the harvest of 4 pigeons (which I cleaned and ate).....lol. Then came the 50# fiberglass Ben Pearson recurve that shot the arrow off my knuckle (Fred Bear style). Spent a lot of time picking pieces of feather out of my knuckle .... ha-ha. From there it was a parade of bows from Ben Pearson, Bear, Wing, and Hoyt. I actually got quite good and took several deer when that was really still a fairly rare event. But then I started to get into competition, and tight consistent accuracy became the goal. Unlike hunting where good shooting was being able to hit the "heart lung area", the only acceptable results became target spots. Of course I quickly got sucked into compounds. The cedar arrows were sent to the corner and were replaced by some of the best aluminum arrows that Easton produced. The shop drawers stared filling up with gadget after gizmo that would each improve accuracy. Money flowed like water when it came to archery equipment and accessories. Today I have a wall full of compounds to go with all those recurves (looks like an archery pro-shop), All wrapped up in plastic except for the Mathews that I use currently. Gun-wise, my first deer hunting gun was an old bent-barreled 20 gauge bolt action. I even took a deer with that thing after I learned where I had to aim in order to get a slug where I wanted it to go. Then came the brand new Ithaca Deer-slayer. Just the name alone told me this was the deer getting gun that I needed. And that old 12 gauge certainly lived up to it's name. Yes there were other guns bought for small game but that old Ithaca has been the go-to deer gun for many decades. Last season, when Ontario County opened up for rifles I finally got a rifle to do the job. By the way, I never did get into muzzleloaders.

I was at one of the "state of the herd" DEC meetings a couple years back and overheard a couple of DEC employees having a conversation about bow hunters. I'm not sure how wide spread the attitude is in the DEC, but these guys were basically saying that bowhunters are a bunch of buck-shooters. They were saying that we are basically ineffective at population control and that we occupy a large part of the best time for deer hunting in what they considered a "waste" of valuable deer harvest time. That may explain their desire to see more effective weapons used during that time. Perhaps that is why it is bow season that is continually chosen for the inclusions of these "more effective" weapons. I don't know, but I just offer this as a possible explanation as to why the DEC always seems to be the willing accomplice when it comes to these kinds of matters.

Yes, as an official DEC tool for management probably not a problem. But as I have been led to believe, these things are not regulated from a private or hunting use. As a matter of fact, an early version of this technology was used by an anti-hunting organization taking pictures of participants in a private dove shooting activity as a means of harassment. So, it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see how this could be successfully used in a hunting scenario. Yes, technology advances do seem to pose all kinds of new challenges. I suspect that this issue will eventually have to be addressed.

So, with the advent of the acceptance of drones into civilian air space, and the down-sizing of cost that will surely happen as they begin to find their way into more and more civilian uses, what do you guys think of their potential uses for hunting? Would you find it acceptable for hunting parties to have a "live eye in the sky" for scouting and hunting deer? Does this thought pose any ethical concerns as regards the principles of "fair chase"?

I hope you other bowhunters are paying as much attention to this guy as I am. Understand that he is really putting to words what a whole lot of gun hunters actually think. He is not alone in all this kind of crazy talk. The hatred of bowhunters is not isolated to this one guy. I hear more and more of it from more and more gun hunters. Also, understand that we bowhunters are in the tiny minority, and really don't have the luxury of simply casting off this kind of aggressive attitude as simply the ravings of the ignorant and uninformed. This guy and the venom he is spewing is shared by more people than we want to think. So while the initial inclination is to simply write him off as a jerk, take a minute or two to listen to the fact that there is a growing rift between bow hunters and gun hunters. Never mind that it sounds like the ravings of ignorance, and pay attention to the fact that bowhunting is under attack like we have never experienced before. It's not just the animal rights crowd anymore. It is the jealous feelings that many gun hunters are starting to feel over the season lengths, and timing. It is the growing success rates that we are enjoying. You are seeing words like "elite", and complaints about what is perceived as preferential treatments. Yes, this guy sounds like a wacko, but don't let his senseless ravings hide the fact that there really is an aggressive divide developing between gun hunters and bow hunters. Don't ask me what we should be doing about it, but the first thing that needs to happen is to understand that it is happening.

You know if crossbows were such a clumsy, noisy, awkward, heavy, inaccurate p.o.s. that you guys keep trying to convince us of, one has to wonder why you would even want to use one ..... lol.

That pretty much says it all. Those that were interested in preserving bow season for bows, did our thing and put up a hell of a fight. But as one might expect, bowhunters being in the very small minority in the hunting community, we eventually lost out. Just as our predecessors who worried about the precedents being set by the compound lost out to those who wanted to erase challenge from the bow season, history repeated itself. It's a story that will continue to be played out over and over. So now is the time to back off and accept the fact that things pretty much went as we should have expected them to. There really is nothing to be gained by carrying on the fighting and arguing because that will not change a thing. Now we just make the best of a bad situation and brace against the next onslaught when someone gets another brain-fart and wants to jam something else new into bow season (look for muzzle-loaders next). Our season has been jealously eyeballed by many ever since it was first implemented. And sure as hell there will be another time when people will be using the insertion of crossbows as leverage and precedent for adding whatever comes next. It is really "too little, too late" for the crossbow takeover debate. It really is a done-deal. Now it is time to start worrying about the next incursion that the crossbows have enabled.

I guess that's what they make bipods, and rangefinders for.

It's funny how people react to these claims. They almost take it personal that somebody would believe that cougars could be living in NY. Frankly, I doubt there could really be undiscovered mountain lions as far as a resident population, but that belief doesn't lead me to ridicule those who do have that belief. Why do people get so upset and aggressive over such a non-issue?

If you really want to be honest about it, you will have to admit that just about all gun hunters were for inclusion of crossbows, including even those who really have no intention of ever using one. It's no secret that bowhunters are still in the minority in the hunting community. So I think you people are patting yourselves on the back and taking credit for things that you only played a minor part in. And then of course you never know if the status of crossbows would even today have gotten anywhere without the help of your new crossbow "buddy", Cuomo. And also in case the truth carries any weight with you, you also have to admit that the anti-hunting crowd had nothing to do with NYB, and in fact the effective blocking of crossbows got not one bit of support because of the anti-hunting crowd's stance. They were completely irrelevant in the discussions or the outcomes. Of course you know that, but never let a fact get in the way of a good anti-NYB sound-bite.

Forget that! You want a real challenge, take your bow out during gun season. That's where you really get the challenge....lol.

Really ..... Are there really people that believe that the DEC could actually pull off some of the covert operations that they are routinely accused of. Seriously, this is the DEC we are talking about. Think about that!

Well, they didn't exactly do it all by themselves did they? They had the entirety of the crossbow industry along with all the gun hunters that are constantly looking to pry their way into a backdoor entry into the bow season. They also had a huge assist from NYON and their biased editorial staff. I think it is amazing that the bowhunters being in such a tiny minority went up against all of these forces and were as successful as they were. Each year the crossbow lobby claimed success and each year they were turned back. Given the odds, it was a pretty effective fight for a group that so many people claimed represented so few, wouldn't you say? It was a good fight, but now the door is open and the anti-archery forces are licking their chops at this turn of events. Yet another precedent has been set in their favor.

One quick definition of a "troll" that I found on the internet was: "Someone who posts deliberately inflammatory articles on an internet discussion board" I think we have one here .....lol. They didn't say what the motivation is for such anti-social behavior, but I suspect it is some kind of perverse need for attention from some pathetic soul who knows of no other acceptable way of getting it. At any rate, this guy seems to pretty blatantly fit the description perfectly. I suppose that's all I've got to say on that, and even that response is probably a whole lot more than this guy really deserves.

I'm not sure there are a lot of people replying here that will say that there isn't money to be made. Hell people have gotten rich selling pet rocks...lol. So what? A lot of people have gotten rich doing things that I would never consider to be anything that I would ever get involved with. It's just a business that supports the worst elements within our hunting community. Sorry, but I don't think I would want to be associated with it no matter how much money was involved. If you enjoy supporting that kind of thing, great for you. You can try to justify almost anything with a good bank statement, but that doesn't mean that you have convinced very many people that your endeavor is an honorable one.

Kind of points up the fact that crooks are in favor of gun control .... at least when it comes to honest folks.

What can I add that has not already been said? The post is just an ignorant piece of nonsense that complains about one segment of hunters complaining about others and then proceeds to whine and whimper and complain about bowhunting and bowhunters. Pretty much wins the prize for dumbest post of the year......lol. Sorry to be so blunt ....... No I'm not!

Not much here that I actually disagree with in terms of fact. You have accurately laid out what hunting is evolving into. For me hunting is an activity of culture, personal challenge, and heritage, not some test-tube situation that involves the mere slaughter of penned and genetically built creatures. I am not really interested in getting the best trophy that money can buy. That really doesn't do a lot for me. I have always placed the larger emphasis on the hunt over the kill. I tend to hunt the animals the way I find them in the wild in accordance with whatever situation of cunning and caution, survival skill set, and physical stature that nature has provided for them. To me anything else is just a variation of a slaughterhouse mindset and experience. I do not see wildlife as simply another variety of dumb farm animal chewing its cud and waiting for slaughter. And yes I agree, all those thoughts are becoming outdated notions as each generation comes along. More and more so-called hunters are looking for the quick way to the kill with as little energy and effort invested as possible. I will also agree that any activity can become corrupted, polluted and bastardized to satisfy whatever foul motivations that some people can devise. I can only say that I still maintain some semblance of honor and tradition in my hunting, and I'm quite proud that I do. I will also agree that others can and will do whatever they wish to debase the creatures of nature where they can. I also agree that it is the profit motive that drives that, spurred on by those who would rather buy their achievements than earn them. However that becomes a part of their legacy, and their accomplishments will be cheapened accordingly and be met with total disrespect that such things deserve. That's all not something that I want to be associated with or take part in but certainly does fit well into your vision of ideal evolution of hunting.

Something to consider ...... Be careful of decimating any of your good oak stands. Oak being a favored target of lumber operations, could result in the elimination of acorn production if not checked and monitored a bit.

I have a personal bias against genetically modifying any wild animal just to enhance the ease of taking a "trophy". That mindset is a self-enhancing notion that seems to not really have any end-point. There are deer being created these days that really don't even look like the initial species. They look more like freaks, or as someone in the article said, "caricatures of deer". I personally hope that these freaks do not find their way into the gene pool of the wild herd. If people want to create their own creatures to hunt within fenced in compounds, I suppose that there isn't a lot that can be done about the kind of perverted mindset that would actually call that hunting. My gripe isn't so much with those that create the supply side of that kind of twisted version of hunting as it is with the people that have become the demand side of that market. Sometimes it can be hard to understand just what runs through the minds of people that would pay big dollars to hunt some artificially created lab experiment. But I have to admit that those kinds of people are slowly taking over the sport in all kinds of different ways, artificially manufactured deer-like animals included.

Good riddance to one very idiotic and meddlesome pile of waste. You will not be missed. Now go back where you came from and continue to try to screw up that country instead of exporting your liberal mindset where it really is not needed, or wanted.

That would definitely simplify things a great deal as well as save landowners a lot o expense, time and effort.