Doc

Anybody remember the competitive long distance shooting that used to be kind of big back in the 60's and 70's? They weren't trying to hit any target, just see who could make an arrow go the farthest. I don't know if anyone is still into that anymore or not. But they used to have special equipment and techniques for launching an arrow the farthest distance. I remember they used to lay on their back and brace the bow with their feet. Quite bizzarre!

I think Larry's comment was just an interesting speculation as to just what the results might be if someone were to try applying what they saw to actual hunting conditions. His comment does highlight the limitations of the bow for anyone who may be tempted by this video to take ridiculously long shots in a hunting situation.

So the thought is to fool them into hunting ..... lol. If cold weather bothers them, wait until they really find out that deer season actually takes place in cold weather. If they need to have deer relaxed and and something you can pattern, wait until they find out that that was a bogus representation of real hunting seasons. My point is that if you have to soften up what normally constitutes actual hunting conditions, do not expect to be developing life-long hunters. In fact you may very well be developing expectations that can never again be met. My thought is that if you are trying to sell hunting as a life-long activity, then use a little truth in advertising. It is what it is. Otherwise, all you will have created is a couple of days of childhood amusement and perhaps have set them up for terrible disappointment when they eventually find out what gun hunting really entails.

Interesting calculation of worthless info: Arrow speed =310 fps Average deer walking speed = 3.5 MPH per (The Deer of North America" Leonard Lee Rue III… Page 40) Distance = 200 yards ------------------------------------------------------ arrow is airborne 1.935 seconds (assuming the 319 fps is the average throughout the 200 yard distance - which it is not) deer moves 1192 inches (9.9 feet) I wonder what kind of kinetic energy it would have left? Might be surprised.

That is the one advantage of a shotgun's "kick". It definitely is a reminder that it is one very serious implement......lol.

Not only do they own their own land, but maybe lease it, or family has control of it, or any number of other ways that people can basically have control of their hunting lands. Maybe they simply hunt in areas that have exceptionally low hunter density. Or maybe they just don't bowhunt. But anyway, that quote pretty much says it all. It's the old "I've got mine, the heck with you" attitude. So if bow seasons get all clogged up with extraneous activity ...... who cares? I'll just keep out whoever I want and my bow season will be just fine. And I can also say feel-good things like, "Can't we all just get along?" and call everyone else "selfish".....lol. Look, I have no real problem with a couple of days of special season for the kids (if that's what people are convinced will save hunting .... lol), but I am getting a bit tired of it always being bow season where they throw these things .... the one season where they do have an impact. We bowhunters are called selfish and bad-mouthed for trying to keep the bow season viable and intact, but the fact is that we have had the bow season become the repository for just about anything that people can "shoehorn" in. Now there is a feeding frenzy going on as all the different interests try to parcel up the bow season for all kinds of uses including firearms. It may all have been predictable, but it still doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Some of these guys are just unbelieveable. I doubt that I could make that shot even if I was given an unlimited number of arrows and a few years to try. What the heck, most likely I would have to elevate the bow so much that my hand or arm would be blocking the target I was trying to hit.....lol.

Maybe this is another law that ought to be changed. I never realized that there were limitations on "shooting age" as long as the parents were supervising and controlling the activity. I guess my parents never realized that either because my dad always included me in our target shooting, even when I was a little kid. Yeah, there might be some minimum age for unsupervised firearm usage, but in a controlled target activity that is attended by a parent, it is ridiculous for the government to be involved in that.

And yes, we all should honor the traditional time set aside as the proper share of the hunting year that is devoted to the unique requirements of each weapon. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone who is a serious bowhunter would welcome firearms into the season. I realize that they are already there because of small game season and fall turkey season, but it seems that there are those that would use that as an excuse to open the floodgates and forget about special seasons entirely. Is there some secret about the fact that a bow is a close range weapon that requires some semi-predictable daylight behavior? Is there anyone who bowhunts and is confused about the fact that firearms effect the ability to get within proper bow range? Has no one noticed that daylight patterns of deer are broken by the presence of heavy gun pressure. Maybe that is the way some people like to bowhunt, but I believe that most people took up bowhunting for the exact reason that it is a season that offers (and requires) a relatively un-panicked deer herd. I always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that all bowhunters realize the importance of those things. Of course those that primarily own or control their own hunting lands and who can keep things regulated may be very happy to be free with the season content of the rest of us. It helps if you are not impacted by the regulation changes you would make for the rest of the bowhunting population. Regarding the temperatures and season comforts, I would just like to remind everyone that special youth seasons are designed to introduce young people to hunting (as it normally exists) so that they obtain a life-longpassion for the activity. They are not designed to give them some bogus idea of what the activity normally is. If they have a problem with the normal temperature of firearms deer seasons, they might as well discover that right off the bat. We're not trying to "trick" them into hunting. I would hope we're smart enough to realize that that isn't going to work anyway. If the orange coats bother them, then they might as well find out about it up front. Firearms season for deer is cold, and yes, it does have a lot of people in the woods with orange coats. That's the way it is ..... no reason to try to pretend that hunting is something that it is not.

Exactly right! Outdoor activities are not single activities. The whole thing is a "package deal", and the more outdoor activities you keep your family involved in, the more likely you will have lifelong hunters develop.

I'm thinking that the way things are going, that's exactly the way it will wind up (not in my lifetime I hope).

I guess I'm done with this thread. Sampotter just said everything I was saying except he put some real facts behind what he was saying ....... Good reply!!!

Personally, I have absolutely no direct knowledge of how our standards in hormones, antibiotics, pesticides and such rank in terms of what is truly harmful, what is imagined as harmful, and what all that is used that we are not even aware of. The Food and Drug Administration is probably equipped to evaluate that, but I definitely am not. So I cannot even begin to comment on that. I will say that it would be nice if I could look at a label and understand 1/10th of what is written on there .... lol. Let's hope that someone is paying attention to that stuff. I guess I haven't heard of mass deaths occurring in the U.S. because of all this stuff, but maybe we are just lucky so far.

I guess I just haven't researched the subject well enough. I haven't heard of a whole lot of cases of abusive practices when it comes to treating farm animals in an abusive fashion ..... except in sound bites from the animal rights people. Sure, there are periodic news reports of animal abuse, but that is always some inept, uncaring, incapable, animal owner, not an agri-business entity. Stuck in pens ... being fed diets that improve flavor and meat quality or milk or egg production ... periodic injections ... crowded conditions ... shortened lives based on prime market readiness... it all sounds pretty gruesome doesn't it, especially when we assign human qualities and emotions to the animals living those kinds of lives. But then I'm not sure, given an animals mentality and actual awareness, that all that stuff truly does constitute abusive treatment. Let's face it, farm animals raised for our consumption probably are never going to live an ideal humanistic existance by our human-based standards. I guess as long as we believe in eating meat and keeping animals for food products and other consumptive uses someone will always be able to throw stones at the kind of lives we force on these critters and it will always be followed with, "how would you like to live that way?". Are we more abusive toward animals than other countries are? I don't know, I would have to see some proof of that. I kind of doubt it. Are we at an all-time high in terms of treating our animals poorly? I really doubt that too. Is the U.S. treating their animals more cruelly than other countries? I'd have to see specific proof of that before I believed it. Did this program offer any proof of their claims, examples, etc. that show this to be the case? I know that we can quite easily get all hyped up on campaigns against big business of all sorts. I've been known to occasionally get off on that tangent myself. I think that we generally automatically start off with a bias against business interests, and the suspicions and animosity grow as the size of the corporation grows. Business has been labled the enemy, and as such they are assumed to be evil. Maybe they are, but let's understand that they are the very core of our way of live and existance, so if they are evil, what does that make us? We also have some built in need as Americans to engage in self-flagellation .... for what purpose, I'm not really sure. But the instant assumption is always that if there is something evil in this world, we have to be the worst example of it. Again I have to admit that I do not have access to this TV program, and I am kind of flying blind here, but I must admit that if there is one entity that I am more suspicious of than big business, it's the media. So if I appear to be a bit skeptical about the claims as being relayed here, it is only because I know how tempted the media types get to ensure at all costs that the conclusions always come out to agree with the assumptions going in regardless of how the facts develop along the way. As they say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.....lol.

The one thing I will stress in terms of their use is to spare no effort when it comes to brushing them in. I thought that just because I was pushed back into the spruces so well, that I could rely on simply the camo pattern. I was picked off at about 60 yards with the foot-stomping, head-bobbing, and the snorting retreat of the whole herd. So from that point on, I have made it a practice to brush it all in so well that I really wouldn't need any camo pattern on it at all. When I get done, I have to look real hard to find it myself. Also, pay attention to your background and surroundings. When available, pine trees make excellent surrounding cover. Nothing is harder than trying to make one of these things blend in when you're dealing with mature, open, hardwoods. I won't say that it is impossible to use in those areas, but I generally won't bother using anyplace other than heavy, dense, brushy areas where you actually have to hack your way in to set it up. Needless to say, your approach trail has to be quiet and easy to use, but not so obvious that the deer start using it. Any old lightweight folding stool works well for a seat. try to figure out a bow stand that keeps the bow in an upright and ready position. My stands came with a gizmo that sticks in the ground and holds my bow in a convenient fashion, ready to grab. Also clean out the interior of any twigs, leaves, and other debris that may make noise when you shift around for a shot. Beware of having so many windows open that you become back-lit. No direct sunlight access into the interior through any open windows. Where I am set up, I really only have one possible direction to shoot anyway so I only use one window open and then it is only partially zipped down (they make them way bigger than is really necessary). Wear dark clothing. Camo is not necessary just dark colors (black is perfect). You may think you are well hidden, but even the small amount of light coming in the open window will illuminate you and show up your drawing motions and any other inadvertant movements. Set the blind up long before you intend to use it. Even well brushed in, the deer will eventually find it and it takes some time for them to accept its presence. Once they do accept it, it's surprising how close they will come to it. Needless to say, you still have to be as scent conscious and aware of wind directions. Even though you are kind of encapsulated, you are not scent-locked. I found it useful to practice setting up and tearing down my blind a few times before actually trying to use it for hunting. Don't always count on instructions. Some of these have a bit of a learning curve involved and are technique sensitive. It is surprising how some of these need specific folding and twisting motions to get them back in their carrying case. That's not always so easy to figure out when you are in a hurry trying to just pick the thing up, pack it up and head home with it. The little tricks are better learned in a basement or out in your yard. As far as shopping techniques, you already got that right. Head for Gander mountain, or Bass-Pro, or somewhere that they are likely to have a good assortment of them set up so you can judge for yourself the quality and size. Most of all this stuff is just common sense that you would eventually think of yourself, but sometimes it is good to have it all listed ahead of time so you don't wind up blowing an opportunity and then kicking yourself because an obvious error was made. I have just randomly thrown down thoughts and ideas without any judgement as to whether they are super-obvious or not. Perhaps others will add on to this list with some things that I'm not thinking of, so it can serve as a set of reminders and a bit of a check-list.

My lawn is very hardy and keeps the green long after everyone else's is burned up by the late summer heat. It consists mostly of native weeds which grow some real good deep roots ..... lol. If I ever put any weed killer on my lawn, I would kill the whole thing.

All done with a DR Trimmer. To many stumps and stones and uneven ground for a riding lawnmower.

I have a 1000' driveway that gets mowed on both sides with a DR Trimmer a couple times each year. With steep sided ditches that gets to be quite a workout. The strips that I keep wacked down are 10 to 20 feet wide. But it helps keep this old-guy in shape.....lol. I spent a lot of time hand cutting all the brush and rose bushes out of there and I'll be darned if I'm going to let that all grow back in. It looks pretty neat when its all trimmed up. kind of like a park road.

Here's the problem for anyone who shoots a "triggered" weapon. The rule generally is that you begin a slow deliberate squeeze so that you get what is called a "surprise triggering". In the case of a bow that would be a "surprise release". The problem comes into play in that that rule is pretty hard to accomplish when you are working against something held out at arms length, that is not rested, and is being aimed while holding back pressure applied in a very awkward fashion (and even bows with very high let-offs and supposedly light holding weights still have a threshold time limit when that shot has to go off). So if you use the surprise release technique, it is not really very likely that your pin will be over the bullseye when the release lets go. So, I have gone with the command triggering, trying not to be too violent as in "punching" the trigger, but making it a conscious act in a timed approach of the pin as it heads toward the bullseye. I'm not sure if this is what the coaches would be teaching their archery students, but I have found that it is the only way to get a good accurate shot. If I wait for the pin to stop and just lay on the bull, I never would get a shot off.

Funny stuff!!! The more their members learn about their organization the more embarrassed they become. Unfortunately it looks like they always easily get replacement members for every one that eventually wises up.

Those zero-turn mowers are a lot of fun, aren't they? At least for a part of the season. I guess I don't really worry too much about the cost of the gas because it really doesn't use that much of it. I have to keep mine mowed pretty regularly (at least once a week) or it gets so high and thick that it starts to be a bit abusive on the equipment. I have about 4 acres to mow, but with that zero turn, it goes pretty fast. I kind of rip around the place pretty quick and it's kind of like a sports vehicle .... lol. Toward the end of the summer it loses some of the novelty and starts to get to be a chore.

Sounds like a perfect place to use a pop-up. So I guess you are not asking for advice on how,where, and when to use one, but rather you are looking for features to look for when buying one. ..... It that right? I probably am not a real good help in that area because the two that I bought were based primarily on low price. However, what I did find out was that even the cheapos hold up very good. The big thing that I looked for was head room for drawing my bow without interference, and also interior dimension to make sure you can draw with your elbow clearing behind you and the bow clearing in front of you, including any forward reaction of the bow after the shot. So for me it was all about adequate size. It would probably be a fair statement in your case to say, bigger is better. Using a bow puts new meaning to the term "elbow room"....lol. I do leave mine up through bow season and much of gun season and there doesn't seem to be any deterioration. I set both of them up in a pretty protected area at the edge of a thick stand of spruce trees. So they do get pretty good protection from weather. It's so tight in there that I don't even have to stake them down. Next season will be the third year that they have been out and they still look like new.

Archery is a mental sport. You not only have to train your conscious execution of your shots but you have to train your sub-conscious not to interfere with perfect execution. I know there are mental difficulties that can crop up with gun shooting, but no where near in the same category as with the bow and arrow. These little anomalies can absolutely frustrate you. Sometimes a temporary fix is to go to a more sensitive release. A new equipment set-up will also help ..... temporarily. Sometimes it can help to simply enlarge the size of the bullseye that you are shooting at. Other times just shooting at an animal silhouette instead of a circular bullseye can calm that anxiety of missing tiny circular targets. I have also had some success with moving way back to a longer distance. The idea being that at long distances your mind does not demand the super-tight groups and your involuntary mental blocks relax along with your expectations. There are a lot of little tricks that can help including the "eyes-closed" shooting at a large backstop that has been mentioned. All these tricks are simply training your subconscious to behave. Most of these solutions are temporary and the problem can come back. However, once you have beaten these mental ticks a single time, you have the confidence and knowledge of how to do it again. I keep mentioning the temporary nature of all these fixes, but what I have found is that some pretty long time spans can occur between when you have beaten your way through one of these cures and the time when the problem re-surfaces. I generally have to work through these weird brain-farts about once per season. occasionally I can get a couple of seasons without target panic.

I think the problem with that philosophy is in choosing the metric for determining when things have strayed "too far" from the natural order of things. Ever since man first began domesticating animals, they have been messing around with the natural order of things. So what exactly did they pose as the proper way to measure how far from the natural order of things we have strayed, and how far is too far. Is change necessarily bad because it involves processes, materials and procedures that have never been done before. There very well may be some lines that should not be crossed ..... maybe. But did they indicate where those lines exist? When we make the conscious decision not to stray from the natural order of things, we strike a death blow to progress. Sometimes I think that may not be all that bad a thing, but I'm sure most people would disagree with that. It's one thing to criticize an industry, but unless they offered proof that harmful effects are coming from that industry along with some credible metric to guage the severity, I tend to be a little skeptical. After all, it wasn't that many years ago that the TV program 60 Minutes aired a hatchet job on the use of the chemical Alar in the apple industry and labeled it as causing cancer in consumers. As it turned out, the report was completely fabricated. So without having actually seen the program you are referring to, all I can say is to approach the info with a certain demand for proof and credibility.

I guess it all depends on your perspective, but back in the 50's when I was a kid, cows were already being fed a fairly substantial diet of grain and actually were doing quite well on it. We had a trough for sheep that was used for feeding them bags of minerals. That's not exactly an evolutionary part of their diet, but it was done for their health and was quite effective in keeping a healthy bunch of sheep. So it all depends on how far back you want to go. If you go far enough back, you will eventually find a time where grazing farm animals were fed only hay in the winter and grass in the summer. Were products from those animals any healthier? I haven't seen anything that says so. The fact is that our life expectancy continues to extend as the modern marvels of food production advance. Some of those years added onto the average life expectancy, I suspect is due to our improved diet in spite of our fears and suspicions. So all the theorizing that farmers are forcing us to eat contaminated and poisoned food doesn't really get support from life expectancy data over the years. There may come a time when that all changes, but the evidence that I see today suggests that we have never ate better or more healthy in all of history. In terms of farm animal living conditions, I again have to refer back to my observations years ago. Filthy stinking pig pens and crap-crusted dairy cows was not really all that rare. It never was any picnic being a farm animal. Now as far as the cow with the hole in its side, I must tell you that back in 1958, our class went on one of the very, very rare field-trips to Cornell University. And guess what was the one thing that still sticks in my mind today ..... it is that cow with a hole in it's side and the light dangling inside so we could each walk up and see the mounds of green crap inside (no, none of us stuck our hand inside .... lol). Nothing new about that, and it really had nothing to do with any evil big food producer. By the way, the cow really didn't seem to mind. She just stood there munching her hay and having a great time.