Campwildwood

"Good points, I think about that scenario each time I am hunting. How about the guy in full camo who is still hunting and just like a deer he materializes from anywhere. It makes my heart skip a beat!" I agree, but does your reactions cause you to swing your firearm and shoot that target that mysteriously appears without confirming what it is? Do you shoot at a moving bush and "ground check" what you've killed? These are the cases that have happened in the last couple of years here in NY. Hunters who shoot without identifying the target, hence a high rate of deaths/injuries during deer drives every year, in which some of these hunters are wearing B/O & the shooter is WELL aware his/her hunting companions are in close proximity. I believe that many hunters like myself believe that wearing B/O makes sense, but don't think that making it mandatory will automatically save more lives. In some states, the opposite has occured. Its also interesting to point out that some of injuries caused by the shooter was in the process of doing an illegal act to begin with, therefore if such law was passed would some how give these individuals and others a false sense of reassurance that if the target that he/she is shooting at doesn't have B/O, theres no futher need to identify the target. Again, if proponents are so concern for fellow hunters lives, then B/O must be mandated for all individuals (non hunters as well) entering any field, yard (sense a hunter shot at a deer within 500" of a home), woods, trail, etc. during ANY firearm season including varmit/predator, turkey, waterfowl season. Right?

"Really? I've been looking all over for that kind of data that you are alluding to. So far I have not been able to find it for NYS. PA .... yes, NYS ..... no. Could you point me to the place where I can find that sort of thing? Is there an internet link or something where you found that info? Doc" Well Doc, let me just respond the way you have when someone ask's you the same question, "First of all let me tell you that I'm not paid to do your research. If you are interested, do your own work."

The scenario makes sense, but the data doesn't support it.

I agree Bubba. They can twist and convolute a subject, but the FACT remains that it has not been proven that B/O is the cure for all. We do not need to mandate B/O orange, we just need hunters to identify their targets and beyond. As Doc wanted to make a case concerning the 16 month old child, he willingly left out the FACT that the hunter hunted over a bait pile, trespassed and was within 500 ft of a home, better yet, the house was in plain view when he shot at the deer. In other words, Doc's response has nothing to do with B/O in that case and was pointless to bring up, again in the topic of B/O.

Maybe like the B/O topic, where many fellow hunters seem to be concerned about hunter safety, safety harnesses should be mandated as well? It does the sport no good every time a hunter falls from a treestand/climber and injures or kill themselves because they didn't wear one. Similar to the seatbelt law, harnesses will save alot of families from some horrible news or excessive medical bills that eventually effect all of us in our own medical/insurance premiums. Its estimated that 10% of hunters every year are injuried in a treestand related incident, seems to me treestand harnesses are more important than B/O, yet I don't hear a big push for them to be mandated. Also, standard harnesses may stop you from falling, but what about the jolt that can also cause severe injury. There is still a problem, you still can find yourself suspended in mid-air, unable to get up or down. If you hang there long enough, blood can pool in your legs, forming dangerous clots, and you may have trouble breathing. The latest solution that I am aware of is a controlled descent system (CDS). Basically, it is a full-body harness with a climbing rope and carabiner system built into the shoulder straps. If you fall and can’t get back up on your stand or ladder, you pull a kind of ripcord that releases the rope. By releasing pressure on the caribiner a little at a time, you can lower yourself to the ground. So what say you, harnesses need to be a legal imposed hunting equipment, if hunting out of a tree like many believe B/O should be. And like B/O, many want a specfic amount of B/O showing to be legal, should a harness have (CDS) to be considered as the only option "legal" type harness so that not only does it prevent you from falling, it assists you in getting to the ground safetly.

As I stated before, and as Bubba alluded to within this topic, that wearing B/O is not a cure for all when it comes to hunters being shot. In my opinion, forcing hunters to wear blaze orange will increase shooting accidents within our state (which is extremely low considering we don't mandate B/O as some would like). Those hunters who are now taking the time to identify their targets may push caution to the side because the response will be, "I didn't see B/O, therefore it must be a legal animal for me to shoot". Some hunters will become complacent and shoot the individual taking a stroll, mountain biking, hiking, picking various vegatation, bird watcher, etc. More deer related shooting accidents happen during deer drives, where many, if not all, hunters are wearing B/O and there still getting shot? Why not then make deer drives illegal if so many are concerned about hunter safety? I do think wearing B/O is a smart thing to do, I wear it to and from my stand or when tracking a deer. Not while in my stand since I'm also predator hunting. One note: I hunt my own property, if I was on public land I can see where it would warrant wearing B/O, for ALL indiviuals entering the woods. So for those of you that want to mandate B/O for hunters, you need to realize that it must be mandatory for every individual, regardless if they are just taking a stroll through the woods before dinner, because I know some hunter will eventually shoot one of them because he/she no longer felt they had to properly identify their target. One more thing that many have touched on, more turkey hunters are shot then deer hunters. So regardless if turkey's can see B/O or not, isn't just plan stupid for those individuals wearing their fancy ghillie suits not have to wear B/O too, I mean we are pushing B/O because we care so much for our fellow hunters safety more than our harvest rates......right?

Too funny, just had to stir the pot, but then again I'm sure someone would had brought it up as an ligitimate concern....lol

Can we still vote? I may be able to get it to 50% for. ;D

Epek XC3 broadheads, retired the Crimson Talon's to strictly turkey hunting.

Nah, just planted my own.

I agree, brands such as Mossy Oak or Realtree etc. are not necessarily the best camo patterns. I actually like ASAT pattern, just didn't find their suits meet my needs. Also, as a side note to military camo, I also picked up a set of military BDU's (pant, shirt, hat, gloves etc.) in Multicam pattern. Sweet pattern that I think will do well in the early season here on LI, but again, as long as you don't move does it really matter....lol

I'm guilty of not wearing a harness in the pass while using my ladder stands. However, last year I started using a climber and a standard harness. After some research and concerns from my wife, I ordered the Rescue One Control Descent harness. Neat feature that I hope I never have to use, but since I do hunt alone at times at my camp, the controlled descent feature gives my wife a little peace of mind until I call her each evening to assure her all is well. Many harnesses are getting very exspensive and just felt that my life is worth the $200 vs some of the items my fellow hunters spend on hunting gear. Consider my climber retails for $130 last year and many of my buddies spent $400 on theirs, yet they use a standard harness? To each his own is my view.

I personally don't think the pattern matters as much. I have have four different patterns and I've killed deer via bowhunting/rifle with no issues. However, I did just receive my new camo outfit last week since my older suits no longer fit after losing 70lbs. The pattern does not overwhelmingly impress me as much as the functionality of the suit itself. Its the new Scentblocker Dream Season Silent Shell with the new Mossy Oak Infinity pattern. The suit in my opinion is well made, plenty of features that I deem suited to my needs/wants. Anyway, thats my take on the newest, bested camo pattern being marketed this year....lol

Also, now I have seen a crossbow that has the bow mounted backwards with a few extra pulleys mounted. What that does for them I'm not sure, but I'm sure there is some tecnical advantage that someone found. They also make one in verticle form as well Doc. So is it OK for verticles, but not horizontal? We no longer define ourselves as a hunting sport of skill and limitations, and now we are taking another giant step in the direction of moving archery toward the guns. I will agree that the hunting aspect of skills and limitations is dwindling, but thats been going on for the last 40 years and just human nature to make ease of everything we do in life. The great thing is, I rather give my fellow hunter that choice of what legal weapon and high tech "gadget" he chooses to use, rather than forbidding him/her on just semantics. You want to use a compound bow with all the high tech gadgets that fit on it, combined with all the other zillion gadgets available to hunt with, ie: rangefinders, blinds, self-climbers, carbon scent clothing, yadda yadda yadda, then why not a crossbow? Makes no sense.....lol To each his own, thats my point. As long as its legal (xbows may soon be), let the hunter hunt! Furthermore, I think the crossbow will accelerate this attitude and soften opposition to muzzleloaders moving into what has traditionally been archery seasons by stirring in a majority that no longer has any real ties to the bow. It was the NYB who proposed the early ML season, which had nothing to do with xbows at the time. Doc

So lets focus on the gadgets available for "bows". When will "bowhunters" start placing limits on what is/isn't proper add-on's to their bows and still feel their "bow" is no better than a xbow? Verticle bows have the same advantages as xbows (ie: triggers, scopes, string locking mechanisms, etc.) You don't seem to care what products enhance the compound bow, nor does the NYB. So why care if xbow are allowed, especially since both "now" share the same attributes? The argument concerning xbows is based solely on semantics. This debate may be pointless since xbows are gaining popularity among bowhunters, many of who are coming to their senses that their own beloved compounds are just as technically advanced as the xbow. Initial posts indicate xbows are now legal in gun season and I believe they will soon enough be legal in archery season. I and many other hunters (new and old) will now enjoy the option of another legal implement to hunt with. Thats what I care about, not the semantics, I'll leave that up to you....lol.

Very good point SteveB. With the constant onslaught of new "bows" and "bow" gadgetry available to bowhunters, you have to question those who oppose crossbows into the archery season, when does a compound bow no longer fit in their definition of what is considered a bow? Many apparatuses available today enable the compound user the same benefits as an xbow, therefore I feel the argument against xbows is a mute point.

In the past, I (as well as other members) have provided various "in depth articles and scientific studies" on other topics just to have you (Doc) dismiss them in one way or another. :-( To continue such cycle with you would be foolish, but will be willing to read any current studies you have already researched if willing to post them.

I'm in favor of AR just to keep it simple. All of the polls that I've seen, the majority of NY hunters feel the same way.

Epek 3 Broadheads. As a fan of the Crimson Talon fixed broadheads, I've taken the leap this past season to mechanicals. Of the few I've tried (many I have researched), I personally believe these Epek's perform exceptional well.

There are a few outfitters that do offer these type of hunts that you refer to (i'm sure you may be aware of) and I know of two hunters that went to one a couple of months ago. They both said that they would not do it again, the fun aspect of scouting and actually "hunting" aspect was pretty much removed. They also said the guides tried to amp-up the hunt, telling the two hunters the animals are unpredictable and may charge etc. In reality, they felt as if the animals were somewhat domesticated? Guess it might depend on the outfitter and hunter, but these type of hunts seem to be popular, especially for non-native species. As in general, hunting has been made easier with all the high-tech gagets made available to us.

Sent emails to a few former members so as to get the old group back together. Glad to see many finding the new site.

So what was the fake rake issue, must have missed that issue??