adirondackbushwhack

Oh I don't know about that. It seems to me that we are starting to get at the route causes of the health care problem and I think that's a good thing. If we have real understanding instead of just holding onto the propaghanda spewed by the government/media complex we will all benefit and come closer together.

I never said that the politicians were honest just that they held the reins.

It will take more than just fixing health care it will take fixing government. Our government continually does things that makes the problems worse instead of better. The Government cannot fix the problem the government IS the problem. Obama care won't fix it either when the costs get too high more of you will have to die to save money.

See if ya can put your noodle to work on this and see how much you're paying when you're done. I see that other fella put a whole list of taxes up there but he doesn't nearly have them all and lets see if I can break SOME of it down so it's not so fuzzy for ya and you'll get an idea of what WE ALL pay. Thats right, even you are paying that much if you're a middle class American, you've just been fooled into believing differently. Start with your payroll taxes, state fed. fica all of it. Now from what is left subtract your property taxes, even if you rent they are included in your rent. Next how about sales tax 8%? then of course there is the gas tax which is much higher than 8%. Of course you have to heat your house and that fuel is taxed. electric taxed, phone taxed, water taxed unless you supply your own but you were taxed when you put the sysem in. Sewer taxed. roads, tolls which are actually a tax, anytime the government takes your money its a tax they just don't like calling it that all of the time so they use words like tolls or fees because they sound so much nicer than tax. Then there is your car. Lic, and reg tax and then there is the insurance which is taxed and of course the insurance company has to pay taxes and so they calculate those taxes into your bill because as we all SHOULD know big companies don't pay taxes they mearly collect them by includeing them in the price for their goods and services. Oh and don't forget whenever you change the tires on your car the state taxes you for the old tires that are taken off of your car. Yes the same ones they taxed you on when you bought them. Of course you eat and the farmers, truckers and grocers all pay taxes that are.....yep you guessed it calculated into the price that YOU pay, again they don't pay them they mearly collect them. Same with your house and everything in it all the way down to the roll of t-paper. All those companies involved with making shipping or handleing ANYTHING pay taxes and those taxes are passed on to YOU. Getting the idea yet? Hunting lic. fees are actually a tax. Any fee you pay to any branch of the government is tax. Got it? Now then lets look at health care. Here in NY there is a 1/3 tax on medical proceedures. so if a cat scan costs 300 100 is tax. And you were wondering why health care was so expensive. But wait the docs pay taxes and so they too calculate those taxes into your bill because just like the rest they don't pay them they collect them. Go to McDonalds, pay their taxes, go to wal-mart pay their taxes, sabe? You pay them all. Now see if you can add ALL of the taxes you pay directly and indirectly and come up with a number less than 75% of your money if you are a middle class American. And don't forget I havent gotten to all of the taxes YOU pay so keep going with the fuzzy math and figure what ya really do pay.

I find half of this argument really odd. Some argue to forcibly take my money away from me and give it to someone else. How is that good for me? Remember over 75% of my money already goes to taxes in one form or another; how much is my fair share? Aren't you guys ever satisfied? Why don't ya argue to tax imports from other countries to pay for it or how about redirecting foreign aid to pay for it? I just don't understand the thinking.

Obama care that is

And I and others believe it is unconstitutional AND is bad for the country.

It's your oppinion that it's for the common good.

Some of us, and I count myself among them, believe it is wrong to take anyones liberty, including that of the wealthy. So as long as there is a tax for somebody for this mess it is wrong. I'm kind of wondering under what circumstances many of you feel its alright to forcibly take money from others? You all don't seem to mind in this case.

I don't believe our government serves the people any more. I believe that they serve their party instead. If that is true it is our duty as outlined in our own declaration of independance to throw off such a government I believe. The fix is simple no party system and all else remains the same.

I always like the guys who think that one news station is brainwashing people while another is only accurately reporting the news. Ha! The government always says it's for the good of somebody when they take away our liberty. When this country was on it's way up people figured Liberty to be a great thing. Maybe you heard the give me liberty or give me death thing. Now that the country is on it's way down Liberty doesn't mean squat. Maybe Liberty has farther reaching effects than socialists think.

No benefits are going down. They have recently appointed panels to decide who gets covered for what.

What happened to Liberty?

So in your story the poor nurse and her husband could afford to buy a house but not better health insurance? The story could have went another way and they could have bought a smaller home or rented an apartment and bought better health insurance. Whats next buy houses for those responcible enough to buy health insurance instead of a house?

Your government should fear you Doc you shouldn't fear your government. if you do something is wrong.

No big changes are not coming. Too many are still influenced by the government/media complex and they still manage to keep us split right about 50/50. As long as they can keep us split and against each other they know we will never unite against them.

Actually the politicians use the excuse that we must pay more or the children will suffer. The school board threatens that we must pay more or they will cut the kids. The Unions have NO control over forcing these contracts or budgets there are no strike/ no lockout clauses AND if they do strike they can all easily be fired and replaced immediatly by any number of qualitfied individuals who are dying to teach. Much like the air craft controlers were fired by Reagan only it would be much easier. I'd call the teachers in your school district lucky for their salary and your school board/superintendant incompetent. If it were me I'd be after the board and superintendants jobs because they are the ones who grant those salaries and they are the ones who are responcible for them. Of course the Department of education is not innocent either with thier mandates. So what? They wore T-shirts and slowed down. The boses, if they are competant can put a stop to the slow down and what does a t-shirt and a pamphlet mean besides nothing. They were only making an argument it was the board that agreed to their argument. You keep saying the teachers insist on a raise and therefor are to blame. Again I say to you that they DO NOT approve the raises they only request them. Be mad at those people who grant those raises that you do not like. The teachers DO NOT set their work hours, their boses do. If you don't like their hours be mad at their boses. Once again you expect the teachers to give up money that the boses are giving them because it's the right thing to do. Do you ever turn your nose up to a raise? Would you ever tell your boss, hey don't pay me that much I'm not worth it? Don't answer here answer only to yourself. The only people responcible for insuring a fair deal for the taxpayers are the boses, why aren't you mad at them? For that matter schools aren't the only place where salaries are out of control why aren't you mad about the political patronage "no show" jobs too? Haven't heard anything about those things on any of the propaghanda outlets?

Really??? You fault an employee for excepting a raise instead of the boss who gave it to them???? Really??? The Union Bosses made the bad deals and not the politicians who publicly call for more spending in education every year and who really control the contracts????? Really the Unions impose tyranny and not the government???? Really???? Did you get your daily dose of propaghanda from your government/media complex outlet today????

Time after time I've noticed that the politicians break things intentionally, See health care, banks etc..., so that they can then come to the rescue and fix it. It is the fix that is their real agenda and so it is with Union contracts. The politicians grant the contracts and then complain that the Unions are out of line because of those contracts. They get folks all riled up against the Unions instead of the real culprtws, the politicians, and then they come to the rescue with their fix and THAT my friends, in the long run, is where you will really get screwed. If you want to protect yourself then you need to go after the politicians instead of siding with them and their agenda. What do you expect the teachers or any union to do, turn down a raise? It's good that you are mad but bad, for you too, to be mad in the wrong direction.

So you think employees who ASK for more pay are to blame and not the politicians who grant the raises requested? Hell if my boss gave me a raise every time I asked for it I'd ask him for one every chance I got. On the other hand if I was the boss and had a budget to consider I wouldn't grant raises without good reason AND I'd curb other expenditures as well. But that's just me.

Actually it is the politicians who routinely call for more spending in education. They do so EVERY year. However even though they are the ones who call for increased spending in education every year they seem to have deflected any anger towards the unions.

The problem with our tax system is that it is corrupt. Some pay more than others, others pay nothing and still others actually get more money back than they pay in. But in my oppinion the whole fight over taxes is just a ploy to keep the focus off of the ral problem which I believe to be spending. I can't think of a single reason why any person in this country should be paying more than 10 percent in taxes unless the government is spending WAY too much. A 10 percent consumption tax would have us all on equal ground and have the rich paying way more in actual taxes than we regular people do simply because they are able to spend more. It would end much of the corruption in the system too. If ya ll want to argue over who pays what why not argue that we should all pay the same rate?

The Unions DO NOT have the ability to FORCE the contracts. Somebudy has been blowing smoke up your arse.

Be careful what you wish for. The governement media complex may have you convinced right now that teachers and unions are the bad guys, and in some cases union officials may be, BUT when they, the politicians, get what they want you will have less. All of this anger about salaries but no anger about those who approve them. Salaries are controlled by contracts and all that needs to be done is not approve any raises and negotiate lower salaries if neccissary. BUT the politicians are not happy with that, instead they want to break all of the unions. I have to ask why now it is neccissary to break the unions when all that was needed was to say NO to raises in the first place. Of course then there are also government mandates but I bet Chris Christy never mentioned anything about them in his quest to bereak the regular guy did he? You should always be careful when there is a simple solution to a problem and yet the politicians want an extreme solution.

Excepting that the judges are politicians too right up until they are appointed by the other politicians to the higher courts and then only after the other politicians are assured that they will rule just as they want them to.