adirondackbushwhack

How so? Do the Unions make the laws requireing what is paid or are the laws made by politicians?

Haha She LETS ya do those things now just wait until you're married.

The unions do not force prevailing wage on non-union workers however it does make a handy way for the politicians to deflect blame for their waste elsewhere. Apparently their propaghanda works too as you are correct in that there are people that will blame the unions who have absolutely no role other than scapegoats in it. Another example of how the government/media complex is controlling the populaton. Incidentally those kids could have been paid minimum wage but the politicians fixed it so they couldn't. They make the laws.

Actually the idea that if you are part of a group that does evil and you do nothing about it then you are evil too is sound. All evil needs to prosper is for good men to do nothing about it; or something like that. With that in mind though I would guess that you also hold Islam in low regard and for that matter even your own government to which you pay taxes and therfore support.

Really? Thats what you get from this propaghanda piece? Political patronage jobs supplied by poiticians is the unions fault? That's not what I get from it at all; I get from it that the politicians wanted to share your wealth and so decided to pay outrageous hourly rates to NON-UNION kids.

It is not assault it is harassment and harassment is only a violation, not a crime, and at 13 they are not legally responcibal for a violation. To raise to assault in the 3rd degree there must be a documentable injury. Check NYS penal law section 120.00 for the definition of assault. and the harassment section is 240.26 The cops can't do anything. The school can though.

His daughter or somebody elses daughter he did the right thing. It neednt be his daughter to be the right thing to do. Protecting a child from those predators is always correct. No one should hesitate in those circumstances.

A good hard smash in the mouth is what those kids need to straighten out. Yes I know everyone is afraid to get in trouble being videoed smacking a kid in the mouth but some times ya got to take the hit to do the right thing. Without it the kids will continue on their current path to a poor life and more people will end up as their victims. IN fact the principal should make them watch the video and then stand them up and slap their mouth for them in front of the whole gang and lets see how funny they think that is and how much bragging they do about getting bitch slapped. That's a lesson they won't soon forget.

Well son if ya believe that your skill alone will retain your job for ya withut unions in the public secter jobs good luck to ya. Don't care to discuss with ya anymore there tough guy your a bit too rude with your BS.

So do the teachers hire themselves or does someone else do that? Don't you have anyone in charge over there that can control such things? and if ya do why aren't ya mad at them instead?

YES!!!

the key word there is IF

And now let me give you a glimpse of public employment without unions. Every time the leadership changes from one party to another you are likely to get fired. If a politicians buddy or family member wants your job you are fired. If your boss is an A HOLE and decides he doesn't really like you for any reason (maybe you're just better at your job than he is) you are fired. You can be the boss today, a pee on tomorrow and the boss again the day after that. If you don't do what the boss says even if it is illegal you are fired and believe me the bosses will take full advantage of that, they have in the past before the unions and will do it again once they can get rid of them. So yes sometimes it's hard to get rid of dead wieght and the corrupt union heads don't want to do their jobs but without the union you might not be there to complain about things at all. Be carful what you wish for once the union is gone you're going to have to kiss some serious ass if you want to stay working there and even then you can be gone in a heartbeat. I've seen public employment without union protection and if you think things are corrupt now wait until you get a taste of that.

I agree with much of what you are saying and there are certainly large numbers of corrupt union officials to go along with the corrupt politicians. BUT Walker hasn't prosecuted the corrupt union officials or politicians instead he has punished the poor working stiffs who are merely members of those unions. Had Walker went after the corrupt leadership both in unions and government I would support him but instead he seeks only to injure the working people who are members of the unions. The media is biased too as we all SHOULD know.

There are cameras all over our cities and highways already; they have been watching for years. No cameras on my block yet but it won't be in good working order long should they put one here.

Just a suggestion Dave from somewhat of an outsider. I don't live in your area but i do have school tax problems. Anyway; it seems to me that your problem is an administative one rather than a teacher problem. It's up to the administrators to detremine the most cost effective use of resources and if they are not doing so than there is your problem. School costs are always higher than those of police and fire and other services. Education costs ARE out of control and each year I hear the same thing from our great leaders "we must spend more on education" . Clearly that isn't working but neither will simply going after teacher salaries. What is needed is a smarter approach across the board.

Your current job and mine are the same. Yours can be done cheaper mearly by subtracting x amount of dollars from it. In fact next year the politicians will show you how to do it for less when they raise your taxes. The whole retirement pay thing is something I'd like to go into because you and I have different perspectives on it but I don't have time today. Maybe we can explore that another time. I don't see any benefit in staying in NY after retirement.

You will get no argument form me. We are paying way too much for inferior education. Not sure it's the teachers fault totally though. But, again I say teachers are only a small percentage of union workers would you punish all union workers because you are unhappy with education?

Nothing wrong with being realistic Dave so long as you explain your perspective. That post does nothing to promote understanding of your perspective; it only shows that you are holding on tightly to it. It put me in mind of something I was told once. It went something like "never hold on too tightly to any perspective because all perspectives are only partial perspectives and will be proved wrong at some point." I've found that to be true and find it more important to understand the perspectives of others than to hold on too tightly to my own because often listening to others sheds new light on a subject and changes my perspective. That is, it makes my own more complete. I'm thinking in this instance that maybe the problem of government over spending goes deeper than we have revealed so far and isn't solely the fault of union contracts which was the point I tried but failed to make with my question.

Ha! Nice! vary eloquent and thoughful. A broader mind might have replied "why yes bushwhack they could certainly afford those salaries with all that we pay if they were not wasteing our money at every turn in other ways too". But you've managed to narrow it down to something that the political types might find less offensive.

Sorry Dave I didn't see this when I posted my last. Yep your getting screwed!!! I live up state and I'm getting screwed too. Here they take some of our taxes and send them down state to pay for stuff down there because the people who live down state can't afford it. I wouldn't be at all surprized if some of those people you are complaining of are getting some of my money too. Of course you believe that sombody elses job can be done for less. Yours can be done for less too.

now let me ask ya this. With ALL of the taxes we pay why can't they afford to pay those salaries and then some?

I can agree with that. That is in fact where I have been trying to point the blame. Not with the unions but with those politicians that actually agree to the contracts that you object to. They (the politicians) are the process that allows the objectionable salaries.

Dave I haven't missed the point at all and in fact I agree that we cannot continue to out spend our resources but where we part company is who is to blame. I personally have never heard of any cop retireing at over $100,000.00 a year or getting hundreds of thousands in sick and vacation time so I have to believe that is a, lets say, special circumstance. I'll bet ya never hear mention by your source those cops making less than $30,000.00 a year while actually working and also paying into their health insurance too. You see Dave for each individual insatnce you can put forth there is another like the one I have put forth. The sanitation guy 5 hours a dayn isn't anything new and in fact is low level stuff compared to many of the other political patronage jobs many of which pay in excess of $100,000.00 a year for working 2 or 3 days a year. The common thread through all of it isn't the teachers or cops but is instead the politicians. You also seem a little resentful that others have more than you. 4 weeks vacation isn't much but it is the job you took. Some folks have more vacation time than you and some folks have less. I'm thinking a better way to think isn't to bring others down to your level but to bring yourself up to theirs. Just my oppinion.

I had forgot to mention that I am for reduction in government across the board and as such reducton in spending as well. I think it's kind of odd that the government can expand itself while at the same time argueing that they cannot afford the union contracts. So, you and I are in agreement that government is spending too much. Our only disagreemnet is in who is at fault. From what I gather you believe that the teachers are the fault that government spends too much money while I'm of the belief that it is the politicians fault that the government spends too much money. Actualy I've over simplified both views for convienience but you get my drift.