beachpeaz

I don't disagree with that at all. We are on the same page. My point is simple, you have 2 options: 1) manage it so the people who do get to hunt have a good experience or 2) let it ride and wipe out all the deer! right? what other choice is there? If the hunting is that bad, then why not shut it down for a couple years and allow a larger, healthier deer herd to be cultivated. Then manage the amount of permits. It makes no sense to have 10,000 people going after 100 deer. You end up with 9,900 unhappy people with a bad hunting experience. It would be ok to have 500 people going after 100 deer though.

I agree with you 100%.

I rest my case...again.

But it COULD. Read the post i have above about what other states do with that EXACT scenario. If you think every state in the country has exactly the same habitat state wide, your crazy. NY is no different that any other state. Take the best in the world with OH, IL, IA, they have GREAT areas and they have crappy areas just like us. The difference is that they regulate how many hunters and tags are designated per unit based on proper deer ratios and herd health. In NY you could have a crappy area with low deer numbers and mostly young deer and have more hunters and tags per square mile than an area that holds great deer! It makes no sense. And as long as it stays that way, those areas will never improve. Antler restrictions will do jack @#$% because it is just as much about the doe that are shot as the bucks. Let me bore you with simple math (because it is easier for me to rationalize math anyways): Lets say you have a WMU that is 30 square miles. The DEC determines that there are 15 deer / sq mile. That means there are approximately 450 deer in that unit. They also determine that the buck to doe ratio is 1:5, meaning there are 90 bucks and 360 doe. Lets say a neighboring WMU is also 30 square miles. The DEC determines that there are 50 deer / sq mile. That is 1,500 deer on that WMU. Buck to Doe ration of 1:5, meaning ther are 300 bucks in basically the same amount of area as the first example. Does it make sense to have 1,500 tags given out for both of those units? In other states they would factor the following: They would determine the amount of deer that could safely be harvested with effecting future generations. Lets say that is 50%. They then determine the success rate of previous years of all tag holders, lets say that is 20% of the tags. So, in Area 1 above, they would be ok with 45 bucks being harvested, given the 20% success rate of tag holders, they could safely give out 900 buck tags for that unit, NOT 1,500!! In area 2, with the exact same example, they would give out 1,500 tags, exactly as I stated. Not our state though, they will give out 10,000 if that is who comes to the counter. Then people wonder why the hunting sucks.

I'm not discrediting HIS particular skill level. I don't know him and don't pass judgement on people I don't know. He may be a world class skilled hunter for all I know. However, in order to shoot (I believe what the post said) was 9 bucks over 170", I can GAURANTEE you that the property holds a TON of big bucks. Like I said, watch a hunting show when they go to these places in OH, IA, IL, Canada, Etc. These guys sit in a stand and see 5, 6, 10 bucks a day that ANYONE in NY would shoot (150", 160", etc.) and don't shoot because they know the 170 will walk out. There is ZERO skill involved, its all money, luck of the draw, etc. Very few people who have that many big deer, find public property, scout it, hunt with herds and herds of other hunters, and have a wall full of booners. Are there some? Absolutely there are, and maybe he is one of them! I was making a generalized statment about that scenario is all.

Agreed! And back to my serveral posts. This state is definitely no different than our neighbor Ohio!! The difference is how they regulate it. I

It REALLY bugs me that people equate the size of the deer that these guys have shot to their hunting skill level! My biggest pet peeve is the absolute unrealistic nature of some of the areas these guys, not by skill, but by pure luck, were born to be able to hunt. You watch hunting shows, you know what I am talking about. This guy is blessed to be in a unit in OH (and probably private land) that has monster deer. Put me on that unit for the last 20 years and see how many booners I can shoot....please. Come to NYS and shoot a deer over 170" or better yet over 200". They are around, I assure you, and they take WAY more skill to get. Come on stud.....

I was referrering to sources of Revenue related to our contributions. I realize that all state and federal agencies obviously rely heavily on funding from the State and Federal levels as well! I would still bet that revenue from hunting liscense sales is one of the highest sources of income for the DEC.

lol. It is kind of ironic that you can't legally bait deer with food, but you can put up decoy's and scents during the rut? Doesn't that sound contradictory? Isn't baiting, baiting??

about 4" in Northern Erie County. Great snowman snow. Kids are out romping around in it already. I am pretty dissapointed considerign they were talking at LEAST 8".

you are correct, but where do you think a majority of their revenue comes from? Hunting liscense sales!! Of all revenue based activity the DEC collects, this is by far the largest chunk. Might as well invest it back into hunting. And, yes, i understand baby steps. People are SO change resistent. An actual deer program that benefits the deer herd and hunters would no doubt be voted down by the people of this state. They want to walk out the door an pull the trigger without regard to anything else. I respect that, but I am one for change!

I dont believe any more money than what they spend now. Just allocated differently. The DEC budget is QUITE large. Tell them to stop studying the migratory habits of flying rats (Canadian Geese that litter our golf courses) and spend time where it matters.

and, like I just wrote above, all of this wouldn't matter based on that system. It wouldn't matter how long the season was, what weapons were or were not allowed, etc. There ar a certaiin amount of hunters and tags per WMU, end of story. Shoot em opening weekend with a rifle, shoote em thanksgiving with a pistol, doesn't matter....A tag would be a tag and counted towards the deer population numbers.

It was briefly mentioned in here, but the major "fix" is really being overlooked. NYS went to the smaller WMU's. They can now control deer herds and hunter ratio's better IF they wanted to. I will give you an example: I have the priveledge of hunting in Utah quite a bit because I have family there. They in fact use a WMU system and control both the number of hunters and the amount of deer tags per unit. By doing so, they can controlt he health of the population of the deer (Buck to Doe ratio's) to ensure generations of healthy deer herds. This in turn is what provides "better" hunting for BOTH people who are just trying to fill the freezer (better deer numbers) AND the person who is sport hunting for a rack (better deer quality). They adjust the amount of hunters per unit each year, they adjust the amount of deer tags per unit each year and even go as far as taking deer off units with higher populatioins and moving them to units with lower numbers. Is it a lot of work for the "DEC" level, YES, but anthing worth doing takes time and effort. You would not have to have AR's anywhere, nor have this discussion. It would be the natural result of ACTUALLY managing the deer numbers in NYS by unit. I am very surprised that hasn't been discussed!!

I have more bucks (and more shooter bucks) on my trail cameras this year than any year in the past. Great year for bucks. I have seen less does by FAR than I have in probably my hunting career. Could be a total coincidence?

The season is definitely too long! Especially now that they moved archery up 2 weeks. The deer season is almost 3 months now!! That is crazy. The deer are basically in survival mode for 6 months out of the year (3 months of the harshest part of winter and 3 months of being hunted). The toll it will take on deer will be felt for generations. throw in a youth shotgun hunt now in the early season when deer are still somewhat "normal." AND then the possibilities of cross bows during archery. UGH!!! Too many changes in favor of hunters....

I am a trophy hunter, I admit it. I would not and do not shoot young deer. With that said, let me play the devil's advocate: There are a A LOT of people who rely on deer season to put food on the table. I have family members who eat venison all winter long. Instituting AR is great for a guy like me who just wants to hang something on the wall, but how does that impact a guy who NEED's to shoot a deer to provide for his family? Hunting isn't jsut about the rack (to me it is, lol, but not to everyone). A good 3.5 year old 6 walks by, like 90% of NYS would let that walk? not a chance. And don't say "shoot a doe." In WNY, where I am, Doe permits are limited and hard to get (not sure about other parts of the state). We have an abundance of Doe's so I am not sure the logic behind why they are so limited. I believe witih an AR in place, you would need to allow people to harvest more does as a comprimise to that so people could fill their freezer. With all that said, bring on the AR!!! lol

Yeah, no kidding! 3 years this buck has eluded me. I am hoping that the switch to hunt him late season will pay off. Given he is 6.5 years old now, I don't want him around much longer.

Yeah, I never really thought about that for MZ, but have indeed done that on bow season. Good thought. I will be real curious what those pictures hold. Is he alive? Is he moving during daylight? Is he in the same core area? etc. I think this will make a big difference in my approach.

lol...you saying pink slime isn't really beef?? damn, time to stop shopping at Wal-Mart. lmao

That is exactly what I have done. I left one camera on the front of the property where there are a lot of apples and I see him early season (and where I bow hunt), but have moved my other 5 cameras back into his core area. Most importantly to just get a single picture and confirm he is alive (you can't hunt a dead deer, lol). Secondly to pick up any new patterns that might exist. My hopes are to set up new tree stands for that season based on the pictures I pull next week. I have 4 that I am going to put up in basciallly a square around the bedding area that I know of (and hoping to confirm with pictures) and then hunt them based on wind, etc. With a 1 square mile area to hunt, and only 2 of us (myself and my brother-in-law) it makes it VERY difficult. That is why I am appreciative of the insight you have posted in your experiences. I am always a student and looking for ANY advantage I may have overlooked. Thanks for the posts! If you think of anything else, don't be bashful.

Good questions. No, my picturs are all from September - November. Since I haven't hunted late season the past couple years, my cameras came down the end of November. This year, my cameras are still up. I am going to check them next week. For all I know he got shot opening day. However, going on history of this deer, NOBODY sees him the past 3 seasons, I am going to assume nobody shot him this year. The property we hunt is 500 acres and has little to no pressure (it is all private and well posted). His main bedding area is towards the middel of the property. It would be really hard for a neighboring farm to wonder that far in and shoot him (thus why he is 6.5 years old or better). So, to answer your question, his food source is mostly on my property. There is a back field that is on the neighbors property that he uses part of the time, but not as often as mine. His bedding area is pretty much always my property. And, of all the 1,000's of acres taht surround my property, my property has such little hunting pressure it is almost a sanctuary for the deer. Hope that makes sense.

2012 Picture

FYI, so you can appreciate my sleepless nights.

Food cooked for you always tastes better than food you cook yourself. I think it is the cocktails you consume waiting for the food opposed to standing in the kitchen cooking...lol