mike rossi

Biological benefits: Untested theory: Lower deer populations increase biodiversity Untested theory: Yearling bucks doing the majority of the breeding cause a protracted rut Biological pitfalls: Untested theory: Yearling bucks are the driving segment of the population which spread CWD. Protecting yearlings may exasperate CWD.Social benefits: Increased hunter satisfaction - bigger bucks Increased hunter satisfaction - liberal doe harvest initially safer hunters when pursuing certain size bucks anti hunters feel "Bambi" gets to live longer more diverse wildlife-related opportunities such as bird watching reduced automobile collisions with deer reduced crop depredation by deer reduced nuisance issues regarding deer non resident hunting destination renowned for trophy deer Social pitfalls: Decreased hunter satisfaction long standing cultural objection to culling does by hunters, non hunters, and anti hunters Less safe hunters when culling does long standing cultural objection to trophy hunting non resident hunting destination renowned for trophy deer Note: Bold not a typo.

Referring to what you said above which I bolded. High deer populations exceed the social carrying capacity or tolerance of the general public who may want herd reduction. Non shooting conservationists are concerned about the impact of high deer populations on the overall ecology, especially impacting certain non game birds and plants. Some biologists share that concern. A cultural shift from quantity to quality may be the underlining goal....

It is unrelated, but I have a few quick suggestions... Did you participate in the focus meeting like Joe? If not, find out if a comment period is open and you can send in written comment. Are you a member of the refuge friends, a group which makes recommendations and works with refuge staff (USFWS staff)?

You are talking about a federal law which has nothing to do with the NY legislature or NY state environmental conservation law. This law mandates that an EIS or environmental impact statement be completed before any hunting season is approved on a National Wildlife Refuge. A deer hunt on Montezuma NWR does not make any changes to existing state law. In addition to the EIS, final approval of a refuge hunt would also entail a public comment period, but I am pretty sure it would not go to the state legislature.

Yeah, you just need to let the FWS agents and the DEC conservation officers know when and where the transaction will take place...

What did you get for ducks? A brant is actually a goose and some ducks are easier to cook than others.

Yeah, I used to make up some real ducked-up recipes too. Being a dago myself, used a lot of what I was familiar with and it wasn't always the best choice, especially with waterfowl, but not as bad as school cafeteria lunches. Prior to that my mother was a pretty good game cook , but I never paid attention. My wife, who told me I was like a cave man when she met me, does even better. I leave the cooking to her, otherwise, according to her, it would just be a waste of food... I have not hunted tide water for some time, but I don't remember brant as being poor table fare. I still remember those nasty school lunches though...

We eat all of ours and no the dogs don't get any lol... I don't believe my wife marinates anything, if she does I am positive it is only for a couple hours and definitely not overnight. We usually eat game right after hunting as a matter of fact and think it tastes best fresh. I do know they are only cooked to the raw side of rare. We have another face book page called Cooking Doves and other Game Birds. It was intended to be called Cooking Doves and other Small Game Birds - but FB wouldn't take the name. We might put some teal recipes on there and likely larger ducks at some point. Face Book has an excellent RSS feed and allows us to make a standard post and a duplicate in the "notes" section on the top right corner. That doesn't sound like much, but if you open the notes section and/or subscribe to the RSS feed you will see it is really handy especially for recipes. FYI: that FB page was created as an auxiliary to our dove hunting advocacy page specifically to address the anti hunting premise that mourning doves are not edible. Anyone on our other page please also follow our cooking page as well.

And you know what Doc, I am not so sure that is not by accident either. Same people saying much, including about how you should think, but nothing that delves into the intricate details about what is being alluded to here... Its like, just do as I say, we got it all under control and in your best interest....

I always feel awkward replying to posts about regulations because they seem like canned scripts, but I will entertain this one.... Depending where you hunt in upstate NY, regulations for controlled hunt areas sometimes require you use a minimum number of decoys. I am aware of 3, 4, and 5 decoy minimums. Sometimes you must have a boat and/or dog. And, some locations require you carry your Waterfowl Hunter Education Certificate of Qualification. The tone of the OP seems to be licensing requirements, but we can go on about non lead ammunition, plugged shotgun during the traditional seasons... But I think what is over looked is the restricted bags put on aggregate mallards, hen mallards, wood ducks, black ducks, pintails, scaups, redheads, canvasbacks, scoters, and hooded mergansers. Without being able to identify ducks you can exceed the restricted bag limit before shooting the aggregate limit. Even if you have all your paperwork, legal gun & ammo, and on your string you have two blacks or a black hybrid puts you over the limit, your getting a ticket...

That is part of what does not make sense. I don't think the DEC is allowed to lobby the legislature. If that is so, then what do they do? Do they talk to the council and various federations and get them to offer resolutions? Or does the law allows the DEC to set certain classes of laws or set laws under emergencies without the legislature? Or something else? I don't know about others, but I would like this made abundantly clear....

I don't know the answer for sure, but did anyone ever check to see if a regulation change such as antler restrictions is something the DEC can set without the legislature? If the DEC wants to change the size limit of largemouth bass, do they have to do it through the legislature? If so, is the DEC even allowed to make proposals to the legislature, I don't believe they are. I also think some laws, perhaps the regulations, but not the statues, can be set by the DEC with only a stakeholder input period . And, public comment might even be optional - although public comment is required by law before some laws are finalized, I am not sure if the stakeholder input / public comment period is mandated by law when dealing with laws considered to be regulations. What do the attorneys on this forum say about all of the above? Its time we get this clarified and made known amongst us....

This and other wildlife proposals are not dreamed up by politicians, elected ones that is... These proposals are driven by the so-called resolutions recommended by the NY State Conservation Council and all the county federations under their umbrella (at least according to them) and then all the Rod & Gun Clubs under the umbrella of the county federations (again according to them). The so-called resolutions are therefore a form of political pressure on the senate & assembly which originate from the sporting community as well as the agriculture community through their own resolutions from their equivalent of the NYSCC - the NYFB or the NY Farm Bureau. (One example of the NYFB input on a social issue involving hunting is their resolution favoring crossbows. Reason: It would potentially lower deer depredation on crops). It sounds good when the sporting community touts "scientific management by the DEC", but the same community seldom walks its talk. When science says pull the trigger the sporting community agrees its science. When the science says don't pull the trigger, the sporting community says its a bunch of bull from the liberals... Don't think there is not an awareness of this hypocrisy either. When the sporting community butts heads over largely social issues some of us agree with the resolutions and others do not. Some are uninterested and/or uninformed but have been conditioned to be loyal to the majority (united we stand or we all slide down that slippery slope you know)... Yes, I agree with Bubba's comment about the evil in legislators making decisions based on popularity. But its about time we acknowledge the politics within our own ranks. I will give you an analogy: The lawmakers and average sportsmen are drug addicts and the leaders of the sporting community are drug dealers. A resolution is like a drug, it is "pushed". The leaders of the sporting community are "resolution pushers." The lawmakers and average hunter are "resolution junkies"... Republicans and the right wing element tout "personal responsibility". Time for a reality check and to start walking the talk...

I don't know the area, but have a question, what do you consider a poor rabbit season? How many are you used to starting or killing on a hunt or over a season?

The federal duck stamp in what country? The Federal Migratory Bird Hunting and Conservation Stamp is good until June 30... There have been some discussions about changes to the stamp, but I don't believe an expiration date is one of them. I know there are no changes through June 2014. I will be using mine for the NY snow goose conservation season which ends april 15 and the NY south zone Canada goose season which third split concludes march 10...

I didn't mean state forest , I meant the wma or the pharsalia woods unit, which includes 5 state forests.... Where are you hunting?

Pharsalia wildlife management area or Pharsalia state forest?

Two comments: A Rock Dove is a Rock Dove. Pigeon is what people who raise different breeds of rock doves call them. There is a laundry list of vernacular names for the Rock Dove: city pigeon, barn pigeon, domestic pigeon, feral pigeon, pigeon, farm pigeon, or as the DEC calls them - rock pigeons. But they all are Rock Doves or crosses between rock doves and the dovecote. The HSUS publically stated that in order to further animal rights to "equality", that it is necessary to wipe out Christianity and Judism in the United States. However, one of the most potent arguments made by them against hunting mourning doves, is that this is the same bird as the Dove of Peace written about in the bible. However the mourning dove is native to north America, not the middle east. Since few people are likely to make the same leap of faith about what they call the pigeon, we as hunters interested in establishing a mourning dove hunting season should start calling rock doves just that, not pigeons. The fact that the DEC refers to them as rock pigeons is unsettling in itself. My other comment is to remind you that a rock dove is only slightly smaller than a ruffed grouse, a chukar partridge, or a hen green winged teal. Nobody would ever make a statement that those birds are too small for table fare. The American woodcock, bobwhite and other quails, white winged dove, Eurasian collared dove, and the mourning dove are even smaller. The most hunted, bagged and eaten game in the USA is the mourning dove....

That is to consolidate or dissolve municipalities. Even if it was not, it puts the proposed issue on a ballot in the general election. Any pro hunting proposal would get smashed, much more so if it was regarding dove hunting.

I know those regions cover a large area, but I am not sure its right to post it. I will send you a PM.

Ask Andy he would know. I can tell you as a hunter, that this year I have heard more grouse drumming then I think ever in my almost half a century. During hunting season, although we did not hunt them hard, and actually were targeting woodcock and released pheasant, we flushed 14 and killed 10 - pretty good ruffed grouse year for me.

I see that, under Section 90.4, there is some small game opportunities, though it has special regs more restrictive then the state regs. I stand corrected, I didn't think the dec webpage would have specific info about a NWR. I would still check with the refuge if I was you, they might have parking spots designated for hunters or require you to sigh in/out or who knows what..... Thanks for the link...

Ruffed Grouse are not obligated to aspen stands, that is not what I said earlier. You seem to be looking for pockets of habitat like one would hunt a food plot, like what the magazines have been calling "grouse coverts" for decades. The magazines have talked about these precise locations hunters return to because there "is always a pair of birds there"... Those so-called "coverts" might actually exist, because grouse have small home ranges and establish territories - I would like to hear what Andy has to say about that. If grouse are faithful to coverts, they may not be a solid example for what I am going to explain, but in general a large block of contiguous habitat is going to increase reproduction, survival, and carrying capacity. Its not necessarily a block of land that sucks birds in like a food plot. Habitat enhancement benefits hunters with more game or sustained populations within the norm of natural cycles. Habitat enhancements do not necessarily benefit hunters by concentrating game, if they did they would be considered an "environmental trap" rather than a habitat attribute...

On a similar note, we all have heard hunters talk about wanting to hunt between houses and malls because in the absence of hunting some bucks may have grown big. If that's the agenda of many hunters, and it is, hunting will not achieve population goals... Besides it would be better if the non hunting public majority started to think of sport hunting as something other than an activity that serves only as deer population control. Suburban deer hunting does not allow non hunters to form a complete image of what hunting is about, and in my opinion, it creates a bad image, even if hunting is tolerated under the intent of population management.

If hunting access is being denied for no fault of the local hunting community then local sportsmen should call on the Fish and Wildlife Management Board to do what they do - work with landowners to create access. But leaving toilet paper and arrows all over is a good way to make your access disappear... Hunters who apply for DMP and then pass up antlerless deer for a chance at a buck are not assisting with population objectives. Buck harvest, even a heavy kill, does nothing to slow population growth, as a matter of fact harvesting bucks will increase the deer population. The DEC knows this...