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alloutdoors last won the day on March 20 2017

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About alloutdoors

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    New York Hunter
  • Birthday 08/26/1980

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    Schoharie, NY

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  • Hunting Location
    Schoharie, Otsego, Albany counties
  • Hunting Gun
    Benelli M2 20ga, Browning A-Bolt .270, Model '94 .32 Win Spl

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  1. Deer don't have teeth all the way around like people do. They have lower incisors up front (no uppers), and then a fairly sizable gap with no teeth before you get to the premolars and molars. That gap seems to be exactly what you are showing in your photos. See here: Not knowing your area and without a lot to go on from the photos I'd guess 2-year old at most, possibly a yearling. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
  2. Believe whatever you want. I've been in the wildlife field for close to 20 years, and early in my career doing deer population research was how I earned my paycheck for a period of time. Whether or not you choose to see any value in that is purely up to you.
  3. Personal experience running camera surveys on individual parcels of land in the eastern part of the state. Wasn't implying it's a state wide number, in fact it's really a worst case scenario with high hunting pressure and a patchwork of small properties primarily in the 20-70 acre range. It just demonstrates what can happen in the "shoot anything with antlers" model of deer hunting, and it's why I appreciate the AR's we currently have, despite how much better they could be implemented.
  4. LOL. Guess I can throw out my degrees in wildlife management, I didn't realize having 95% of the doe bred was the only necessary barometer of herd health. Thanks for setting me straight.
  5. You're entitled to whatever opinion you want, but your current opinion is based on ignorance. Wolves don't have the capacity to eliminate 3/4's of the yearling class of males every single year. AR's aren't perfect, in fact I'm pretty unhappy with the ones we have now, but they are slowly moving the needle in the right direction as far as creating a more natural age structure in the deer herd. Did you know that research has shown that before European colonization 20+% of the bucks were 5-years old or older? That is the sort of age structure we should be targeting. That is natural.
  6. Just for the record, in my area DMP's require preference points, it's not like I'm hunting western NY where they can't give enough of them away. Most of the does I've shot have come with a bow or muzzleloader, there's plenty of opportunities for those who want to take advantage of them. It's ok that we disagree though, we just have different priorities. I feel that we are stewards of an important resource and I prioritize the overall health of the entire herd over trying to maximize the number of people that get to shoot a deer every year.
  7. I gained a hell of a lot more experience by sitting in my stand and watching all those yearling bucks instead of shooting the first one that walked by each year. Also, the experience of shooting a deer can be gained from shooting a doe just as well as shooting a spike, and young hunters are exempt from the AR's anyway so I'm not sure what your point is there.
  9. A natural population will have bucks in every age class (progressively fewer with each age class, but all classes occupied nonetheless). There's nothing natural about killing 75% of the teenage males in a population year after year after year.
  10. I picked the first option because it truthfully describes what I've seen with AR at my family's property in 4G. That said, the long answer is a bit more complicated; I'll share it here for those who care to read it. First some back story. Between myself and my parents we own about 70 acres in the northeast corner of 4G. That puts us right near the AR boundary, meaning that bucks that we can't shoot on our property don't have to go far to leave the AR area and get shot, and some of them certainly do. During my first gun season as a 16 year old in 1996 I shot an 8-point on this property that scored right around 100". To this day it's the largest buck I've ever killed there. I did have one opportunity at a 130-140 class 8-point in my mid-twenties with my bow but he came in high-strung and ducked the shot on me, I only clipped his upper shoulder. The neighbors shot him during gun season a couple weeks later, he was a stud. Prior to AR's I would spend most seasons seeing nothing more than yearling spikes and forkhorns, with the occasional yearling 5 or 6 thrown in. I stopped shooting yearlings after I'd killed three or four bucks, so I had lots of time on stand to see what was out there because the only thing I ever really shot was doe. It was easy to go 5 years or more and see nothing but yearlings from the stand. I believe it was 2012 when AR's went into effect. It took a few years to notice much difference but now there is no doubt that I'm seeing significantly more "older" deer. The problem is that the bar was so low to begin with, that really I've just gone from seeing lots of yearlings to now seeing a mix of yearlings and small/average 6-8 point 2.5 year olds, still not much for "shooters". The two biggest issues, IMO, are as follows: 1. The AR's that we have are garbage. Three points on a side sucks. It leaves the very best yearlings vulnerable, and now because guys are staying in the woods longer because they can't shoot the first spike or forkhorn they see those good yearlings are that much more likely to get shot. 2. The deer hunting culture hasn't really changed at all in this area. People will still shoot the first legal buck they see, so all the really good yearlings are as good as dead, and most of the rest now just die as 2.5's instead of as yearlings. I've had a large number of cameras out since June and have a pretty good idea of what is using the property. There are three 2.5 year olds that I'm getting regularly and one that I believe is a 3.5 with a scrub rack. I've also caught one additional 2.5 year old cruising the property a couple weeks ago but that's the only time he's shown up. Here's what I'm working with as far as "older" bucks, the first four are all regulars that I have multiple images of going back to when they were in velvet. I've also got loads of pictures of yearlings, everything from 1-horn spikes to tight little 8-point basket racks. 2.5 year old 6 2.5 year old "narrow" 8 2.5 year old "wide" 8 3.5 year old (I think) 4 Here's that 4 on the right with two 2.5 year olds on the left. I'm pretty sure he's a 3.5 based on his body. And this is the interloper, a 2.5 year old 10 The only buck I would really consider shooting here is the big 4, and he's not legal. The rest I would like to see in another year (or two if I'm being honest), but good luck to them making it that far. Overall though, even though I think the AR's could be done way better, I'm definitely seeing a lot more 2.5's, and the odds of a few of them slipping through to 3.5 or even 4.5 are a lot better now than pre-AR. I came close on opening day of rifle last year with a 3.5 nine or ten that was running a hot doe in front of my stand, I just never got a clear shot. That's pretty much the scenario I'm hoping for again (minus the not getting a shot part). The biggest bucks around here seem to have their core areas close to the ag fields a half mile or more from our property, but our property does hold several doe groups and it really just comes down to getting lucky and being on stand when one of the girls brings a new boyfriend home with her. Since the AR's went into effect I now have at least some hope that he could be a real shooter.
  11. Pulled the card on the home cam again this weekend, a few photos are below. An update from my previous post, Cuddeback received the camera that I sent back to them and quickly determined that it was just plain defective. They sent me a brand new unit immediately which I got last Friday. Today I got a check in the mail from them, to reimburse what I spent shipping them the defective camera. I hadn't said anything about that or asked them to cover it, they did that on their own. They get top marks for their customer service in this instance. Once this heat breaks I'll get the new camera out, and maybe move a couple of the ones that are already out that aren't getting much action. I also learned an important lesson about not shutting off the home camera, if you do you will need to visit every remote camera and manually reconnect them to the network. I already knew that from reading the manual, but that didn't stop me from doing it while I was in a hurry to swap the card. It made me appreciate not having to visit every camera to check images though, and spending over an hour walking around to all the cameras will definitely stick in my head now and make me more careful when swapping cards. It would be nice if the remote cameras would automatically search for and re-establish a connection to the home unit, maybe they can address that in a firmware patch at some point.
  12. Yeah, the only prior hands on experience I've had with Cuddeback goes way back to their DC-200 film cameras when we were using about 20 of them on a research project. Their reputation definitely seems to have taken a hit since then from what I have read, but the reviews I had seen on the Cuddelink cameras have been pretty positive, including from people who have had them out since last summer with no issues to report so far. Hopefully they have turned over a new leaf. My experience dealing with them on the phone regarding the one camera that was defective out of the box has been positive so far as well. The real test will be how they are performing a year or more down the road. We will see. There's no denying the convenience of the system though. I'm looking forward to the Home Plus unit coming out in the near future. The cameras are deployed across my and my parents properties, and I plan to put the home unit at their house connected to a computer (I don't have a house on site, I'm a few miles away). Once that is set up I should have access to all the pics from my phone, if everything works the way they've pitched it on their website.
  13. I bought a couple of the Cuddelink Long Range IR cams a few weeks ago to test out and was happy enough with them to add more and expand the system. I pulled the card from the home camera this morning and so far so good. The thumbnail images that get transmitted back to the home camera are more than adequate to see what I want to see. I'll continue to post images here as I get them, and if anyone has specific questions on the Cuddelink system just ask. So far everything is working as advertised. I did have one camera with an odd issue out of the box, but it is at Cuddeback at the moment for them to look at and fix or replace. For some reason it was missing several menu options and reflashing the firmware did nothing. Not sure how that could happen but I have to believe that's a pretty rare issue, and I'm sure they will deal with it. First image is directly from the home camera. This was a full 20MP image sized down for the web. The rest of these were taken by remote cams and these are the "thumbnails" that were transmitted back to the home camera. These aren't resized at all, this is exactly what is pulled off the card at the home camera. They meet my needs, and I can always go pull the original full size images off the camera that took them if needed.
  14. Bill, you sure do seem to like to cast aspersions on other hunters... I think this is at least the third time I've seen you not-so-subtly suggest that pheasant hunters are poaching turkeys. That's not counting the story you opened the above post with, implying that the hunters might not have had turkey tags. (And what does the language they were speaking have to do with anything? Just throwing in some xenophobia for good measure?) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
  15. That's true of any gun, regardless of gauge. With the right choke and load, a 20 will out shoot the traditional 12ga with #5 lead combo all day long. If you only want to shoot to 40 yards, as well as allowing for some fudge factor, then the 20 isn't limited at all when used with today's heavier than lead loads. Heck, these days even a .410 can be turned into a legit 40 yard stone dead turkey killer with TSS 9's. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk