Buckstopshere

Old guys like Bill and I are more concerned about keeping our edges from rusting....but there was a time...!

I would never trust a head "right out of the box." I have never found a head that I couldn't get a bit sharper with my DMT Diamond stone. Have you ever noticed the difference in sharpness from not only one head to another, but from one blade to another? Some guy at the broadhead company might have been dreaming about his girlfriend...or let a blade go by while he was reaching for a coffee or jawing about Monday night football...you know human error.

Gosh, I hope I don't sound too gruesome! :-X The grim reaper. But I have killed a lot of deer. It's just that I really try for the quickest kill and shortest blood trail that I can create and I am getting better at it. Back in the old days when I made my own arrows with gobbler fletch from the spring before, cedar shafts and hand sharpened heads...those were the days. I used to fuss over the arrows for untold hours. Now, where's the time go? I just am into tuning and sharpening my heads. A scary sharp head can make up for a less than optimal hit.

Yeah, there is so much we do not know about scrapes and licking branches and the way that they are so much like Facebook, or this hunting blog site, but so much more complicated. Whitetails communicate through scent and I think that scrapes have different meanings. Just starting to figure it out... ;D It's neat guys are starting to use overhanging branches on a scrape...glad to see it is starting to catch on.

Nice video Sam! What I have found to really drive them wild is cut a overhanging branch off another used scrape and just zip-tie it to your mock scrape. Bucks and does both. I had one come in the other day. I have been hanging a camera on this scrape for three years. Eight_at_scrape_9.11.10_.AVI

Not quite. I always like to touch up my heads to make sure they are as scary sharp as possible. It is usually a ritual I reserve for the final weekend before. Other than that...I haven't decided what stand to take. Still too early to decide for me.

Typical for young bucks to "feel their oats" at this time of year, especially about two weeks before the first of the three annual major rut peaks. Usually what happens in my experience is the activity diminishes during the Full Moon, like now, and then about 10 days later, around early October, rutting activity goes through its first real spike (no pun intended.) ;D

Right you are. I stand corrected.

I have, and I wasn't really pleased with the results. Is yours "store bought" or homemade. This season I am going to make my own. I was not happy with the results so far, but haven't really given it a fair test. I think you have to do it through a couple seasons to be fair. What has worked the best for me is cut an overhanging branch off another scrape and transport it in a clean garbage bag to the mock scrape and zip tie the cut branch to the branch over the mock scrape...and it doesn't hurt to use some frozen tarsals either! But I would really be interested in your findings! Good Luck!

As I recall, the mandatory AR notion was floated as a trial balloon through legislative pressure on the DEC, through heavy-duty campaigning through the NYSCC in a couple of the downstate DMUs. Its genesis - not from the DEC and science, but politics.

I hope I don't come across like I am an know-it-all, just a layman with a few questions, that's all, but with a passion to understand whitetails. Back in the late 1970's I went over to Alfred University which is nearby and began going through the Journal of Wildlife Management and copied every study I could on whitetails and cervids. Of course this was long before the internet...which has made things easier in some ways and more difficult in others....but I digress. When I stumbled upon fetal measurements of whitetails, I thought I had found the Rosetta stone to be able to backdate and figure when the rut happens. My Dad was an avid trout fisherman and would dump a mess of trout in the sink and my brother and I couldn't wait to stand on chairs and watch him gut them and open up their stomachs so we could see what they were eating. Later, we would I.D. the insects and knew which flies were hatching... I have shot a lot of does and like to open up their uterus, just to see if they were bred or not... Only problem is even a late season doe that got bred in the first of the three annual major rut cycles only totes a fetus about the size of kidney bean...in my experience. I have seen two fetus that are different sizes in the same womb, one almost twice the size of the other. Was this from two conceptions? Was this a buck fetus and a doe fetus? Or are they genetically different. My brother-in-law has twin girls, they are fraternal twins. One is a large blonde, twice the size of her brunette sister. Is that the case in deer? So many questions. If they were measured and backdated... and yet they were conceived at the same time. Well, I started looking into studies and sought a base. You are right, the old Morton and Cheatum and Hamilton data bases do not jive. Why? Logical that different strains of whitetails would be different sizes, but New York deer? Then I wonder if the reality of the controls are the same. What I mean is once the doe with the known conception date is euthanized and the fetus is removed, how careful is it measured? I mean if it is scrunched a bit and is just a mm. off...then it skews the size and therefore the backdate. I recall reading that the actual way the crown to rump are measured is different, in different studies. Also, the way that the years are averaged just makes me wonder. Why do they do that? In 2007 the fetal measurements point to one date. In 2008 another date and in 2009, a third date. So they average them all together to come up with an average date of the rut that can be two weeks off a rut in any given year? What good is that? The Pa. fetal measurement studies (taken from road killed does) do the same thing and average the rut dates over a number of years and say...."this is when the rut occurs in Pa." Crazy. I will dig up some critical studies...ya know it reminds me of the radio tracking studies. I thought that they were the be-all, end-all in understanding whitetail movement. And then I began reading how skewed some of the devices actually are...especially the ones that are not or pre-GPS. I used to think that splitting a deer's gum and aging the teeth was the way to go. And then Henry Chidgey from Texas emailed me and explained the problems with measuring tooth wear. And I used to think mandatory AR's was the way to go too...and then the weight of the evidence, the force of logic and common sense on the other side made me change me mind. I guess that's how I learn.

Dinsdale: Thanks, I bought one a few years ago from QDM. Since you are evidently up on the fetal measurement science, what base is currently being used for New York deer? It is my understanding that there is a significant difference in fetal growth in whitetails between the various strains and various regions. What is the base number of pregnant does with known conception dates used? Is it the old Cheatum-Morton study here in New York, Hamilton, Tobin and Moore, or the Armstrong study here in NY? Especially troubling is the difference between the Hamilton et.al. and Cheatum studies. And what was the sample size for the base? I think Cheatum used 25 uthanized does and Armstrong 75? Do you have any studies that you would recommend? I have access to the JWM.

Pretty long. Measuring a fetus to backdate a the rut is not what I would call rigorous science, especially when it is averaged? Wow. That is silly. Big problems arise when these scientists have to kill does that have known conception dates and then measure the fetus. If they do not do this, there is no base. Do you AR guys understand that? Look into it beyond nodding your head. And then there are the aspects of...buck fetus and doe fetus are different size in the same pregnancy. What about multiple paternal insemination? It goes on and on.... of course the fetus are different sizes, then are they conceived on different dates? Such bad science. But did he address the effect that AR's is having on the hunter recruitment by demeaning the average kill? If he did I missed it. And is he paid to write that stuff? Scientists should measure and record and leave the conclusions to objective thinkers.

Woodsdweller: You are right. Thanks for sharing a priceless memory and a great photo.

My average shot is about 18 yards.

A lot of birds, chickens and pigeons and from grouse to turkeys have a crop where they ingest pebbles and stones to grind up the hard mast like acorns and beechnuts. They swallow them whole and then grind them up.

I'm finding the deer here are gravitating to two things...acorns and black cherries. You find a hillside with those trees, and the deer are there.

I know that I will not shoot a doe until the late season, or after I take a buck, because I don't want to skew the natural unfolding of the rut there. I have killed old long-nosed does during archery and watched the buck activity drop off to nothing there. I always hold out for what I think is a big buck, an older buck like at least a 3.5 until the final 10 days or so of the season. Then I will take the first 2.5 year old that gives me a good shot. And then I will doe hunt in certain areas.

builtright: Enjoy your boys. Every minute. I'm sure you are. A long time ago my boys were youngsters and I took them hunting, camping and fishing too. Those were great times...the best! Now they live and work out of state, but we talk hunting and fishing all the time and dream for a hunt together again. And share venison whenever we get together. Once you put the spirit in, never burns out. (Hope that doesn't sound too much like Ted Nugent, but I mean it.)

I use the 150 grain Magnus Snuffer. Been using them since 1979 when Roger Rothhaar sent me a box of them. I tried a few others, but have not found a head that leaves a comparable blood trail. I have never experimented with mechanicals, too many horror stories. They have to be touched up on a stone though. I use a diamond stone, course to take the factory burr down and fine to make them scary sharp.

I've tried that. ;D Couple problems in the late season the fetus is so small, about the size of a kidney bean on the big ones and about the size of a couple bb's stuck together on the small side. Second is that to get a data base on the nose to rump measurement is not accurate. Also, the more I looked into it, fetus aging has some inherent problems which have recently come to light with more rigorous scrutiny. For instance, fetus variance in size from doe to buck skews the time (so they are averaged,) the actual measuring process is problematical, and the time frame, + or - is a few weeks at best and not precise enough to predict the week of the rut.

WNYBuckhunter: Well, I haven't noticed this kind of action this early in September, ever. Probably happened, I just haven't taken note of it and every year I spend a lot of time in September scouting here in Western NY and Norhtern Central Pa. For many years. And you give good counsel, but it is more interesting to me to keep tabs on what is going on as the rut unfolds. I would guess that at this scrape, once the black cherry and acorns are gone, the activity will quiet down. This may be a scrape, peculiar to bucks as they reinforce the pecking order in a bachelor group. As the bucks chase each other and put more space between each other, maybe the use on this scrape will diminish. I also wonder if does use this scrape too. Lots of questions. And things change so quickly out there.

Here's a photo of the scrape and a couple rubs. After checking the shavings from the rubs, the oldest look like they were made about a week ago. Other shavings were a few days old and some looked very fresh, like maybe a day of so old.

A buddy and I were scouting this morning (9/11/10,) and found an area completely torn up with rubs and with a central scrape with smaller ones outside it. We estimated about 30 rubs of all sizes, including once broken 2 inch sapliing. Wow. I have never seen this much rubbing and scraping action this early. A few rubs, here and there. But this looked like something you would expect to see in early November! Hope to set a trail cam up there to see what the heck is going on and who is doing so much destruction to the future of the woodlot. ;D

The last thing I would ever want to do was take any of the excitement and adrenaline out of the sport we love. But wouldn't it be good for the average guy with a wife and kids and a job to know when to be out there...maybe even take those precious days off to be able to get a buck or doe with a bow? For too many years I have seen guys (myself included) take the days off when the rut was supposed to happen, only to sit in a tree and contemplate...and contemplate. Not that that is a bad thing. That is great...but to know...or have a great expectation and know that this it the right time and just be in the right place...and things are going to happen is a wonderful thing. Anyway, that's how I look at it. Having been a working father with kids and trying to balance everything in life and still be out in the woods. It would have been a great thing to know or have a better reasonable expectation of when success would come in on four hoofed feet. As to what would happen if a volcano.... blocked the light and skewed the photoperiodic effect. Well, I would expect that as in tropisms (why plants lean to the light,) things would be radically altered. But everything would scramble to live. I'd bet my bottom dollar on that! I enjoy history. There was an instance, back in the late 1700s when what they called the "Little Ice Age." And some think that there was a huge volcanic explosion in the South Seas islands that caused it. How did that skew things? Probably to the same degree of darkness or lightness that it caused. But it seems that the internal clocks, embedded in the clock genes in ours and the whitetail's, and everything else's DNA would not change even through a few generations, until there was a die off and selective pressures changed. The old earth seems to shrug off some of these catastrophes like we would a cold. Like my dog shakes off water. A pain in the butt for a while, but the earth bounces back. And the programming is still in the genes of the sentient life that by hook or by crook made it through to fulfill its biological imperative to reproduce.