Lawdwaz

One mistake with thousands of deer killed. You never even know they are there...........they are extremely efficient and good at their craft.

I'm thinking that in the end neighbors won't have much if any say in it. Maybe they would be happier with police sharpshooters involved?? Send the neighbors the invoice............

Sure you'll see an increase of mature deer. Your camera's will be loaded with more bucks that you probably won't kill. What you will also see is a reduction of the overall deer herd. Remember what I said earlier, you will absolutely see a lowering of deer herd numbers with AR's or OBR. More antlerless deer will be killed; adult doe, doe fawn and buck fawn. Each adult doe killed is equal to 2-3 deer for next year. The State wants to see the herds reduced, no disputing that right? Do you want to see less deer in your area in the hopes of shooting a more mature (I won't call it a trophy buck) buck? That's what you'll get. Just check with the guys in Pennsylvania.....................

I think they are just trying to include vets and youth to help sell the deal to the general public. The thing is, if they don't let citizens do it they will be bringing in the sharpshooters from the county SWAT teams and they don't come cheap.........ask the Amherst Police Dept what their program costs per year for the taxpayers. Money that could be spent elsewhere...........Letting he local folks do it is a win/win (I hate that term) situation.

OK, since I assume this is directed at me, I'll try and remember to term it differently. A "big buck hunter" would be a better title? Heck, you have a web site dedicated to antlers..........not too many spiker articles though?? But really, the ultimate thing for you and everyone is is a "trophy" for the wall, right? But a big old buck with no teeth and a gnarly busted rack would be a greater achievement for you and me though right? I think I'll start mounting lower jaws on my walls.................

I got a chuckle out of the comments in the link. I travel Rt 20 quite often (from Rt 77 all the way to Rt 15) and the section of Rt 20 from Darien to Texaco Town seems to have a very high population of deer, both dead & alive. Road kills abound and I travel it with caution........ The Park must be loaded for them to contemplate this, good for them at least looking into it. Hopefully it proceeds............

Pull the bolt out of the rifle and give 'er a go.

Long gun I assume? If it is a bolt gun, pull the bolt out and try it in the case. If it closes, even hard, I'd say your fine. I have a bunch of lower end plastic cases and one good one and non of them have a cut out. The hardcase has plenty of air miles on it....... Maybe PM Dinsdale if he doesn't chime in here........he has taken numerous trips to Africa with long guns in hard cases.

I'm happy for you Sam, you certainly kill some brutes. Not many others seem to, do they? How come so few of these great big bucks caught on camera each year don't end up hanging in a shed somewhere, then get a place on the family room wall? Every year we all get so fired up seeing the trail cam pics and videos of dream bucks then never see them again, dead or alive. If we had AR's we'd all kill them. At the farm in PA I hunt, in the 12 years since the AR's were implemented only a couple decent buck have been killed by the 8-10 guys that hunt the place. Its only around 300 acres............. I call them decent, certainly not what most would consider great bucks. 100-110" MAYBE. That's after 12 years of AR's and many years of OBR. Why aren't there more big bucks? Each year they have them on cameras but not on the ground.......these hunters aren't "Happy Day Wangers" either, all are good, hard working honest huntersthat spend all day in the woods. For some reason you don't see these hogs in the fields or woods when you have a gun in your hands. I have friends who have had a camp in McKean County PA since the late 70's. They had 4 guys in camp for the first two days of gun season this year; they never saw a deer. I bet they really enjoyed seeing all the "small wildlife like nesting birds" those days instead of DEER. Don't ask about late flintlock season sightings....... Oh yea, there are no farmers within many miles of their camp in Corydon.

One more REALLY BIG thing......remember, if a guy can only shoot one buck, then he goes out and shoots a doe in place of that 2nd buck right? Well that doe most probably would produce at the minimum a single fawn but very possibly two fawns. All that along with the usual antlerless kill. So, instead of a guy killing a 2nd buck, he has possibly killed three deer by tagging one doe in place of that 2nd buck. No disputing that. AR's and OBR will be a way of population control, back door style.

You might not think that but......... A guy that kills a buck with the bow then would have no other reason to go to camp for gun season to be with the guys so he'd just figure he might as well start shooting antlerless deer or there is no reason to be at camp or in the woods. Maybe he never killed an antlerless deer in his life. Now he will........................ Pure speculation on my part I know.

Winner, winner;chicken dinner. Bingo. Spot on.

Easily before. Why, becasue I enjoy seeing and glassing deer. The woods are silent then all of a sudden here they come, two, no three......wait, there are 5 deer coming! Get the binoculars up, what do you see? Doe, fawns.....doe ahh a buck. Bang! These days its sit and wait........hours at a time. Here they come, two deer, no only one. Hmm, its a spike buck, he gets a pass. In the old days in PA you saw 20-30 or even more deer in a day. Sometimes you didn't kill a buck but you sure were busy glassing! If I want to pass a buck or 6 like I did in NYS on opening day this year, that is my choice. Many people INCLUDING me have become much more selective about what we want to shoot and when. Choice is good and seeing deer is good. If the DEC implements AR's, more antlerless deer will be shot. If the DEC implements OBR, more antlerless deer will be shot. If the DEC shortens the gun season, guys will be pressured to kill an antlerless deer fast as they don't have the time off from work as they'll probably take away a weekend too. Oh yea, when I say more antlerless deer will be shot, don't forget that includes yearling bucks too! With a shortened gun season weather could be an issue like it was here in WNY during the first week or the season, hurting the chances of filling a tag or two for an entire area of hunters. Blah blah blah........

So let them get another year older, right? Once the state is loaded with them it'll be easy, right? The thing people don't really think about is those bucks 3.5 and older are no dumb bells. They aren't as kill-able certainly as 1.5 and 2,5 year old bucks. THIS ISN'T TV. THIS ISN'T THE KISKY, LAKOSKY, SHOCKEY, BILL JORDAN, ETC ETC ETC ETC PROPERTY. Do you really think that an increase in 3.5 and up deer will make then loosen up and cruise more on your little piece of heaven? Holy crow, for all the big bucks we ALL get on camera each year during late summer, fall and even now why aren't we killing these slobs? WHY DON'T YOU KILL A BRUTE EACH YEAR YOU TROPHY HUNTERS? THEY ARE THERE.............. Oh wait.......there isn't enough of them? No, they are smart and don't like crowds, daylight and how I smell.

Do the proponents of AR's and OBR have any thoughts on Pennsylvania's situation? They have BOTH of these regs and a CONSIDERABLY lowered deer population since implementing the AR's. When they brought the AR's in they also issued a ton of doe tags. Consequently a pile of doe and yearlings were killed and THAT is exactly what the PGC (Pennsylavania Game Commission) wanted. In the 12 years since they implemented the law (13 hunting seasons) I have killed 3 bucks. I have had a doe tag almost every year but have only killed a few doe because there aren't many to shoot! In the previous 21 years I probably killed 10 bucks and saw piles of doe each year and all that equates to ACTION and INTEREST in most peoples book but, of course YMMV.

What was the issue with the fired brass?

That is like comparing apples to orangutangs.

Tell me more about Ohio and Kentucky...........When did they make the changes? How are they similar to NYS? What does "worked well" mean and in whose eyes has it worked well?

I wonder what the numbers are regarding hunters that kill two bucks a year? How about the hunters that kill no bucks? On this site, how many guys or gals killed two bucks this year? Is the killing of two bucks really a problem? Show me.................

Good move. It is a great publication, if I get one or two articles per issue that interest me I'm satisfied. They have their finger on the pulse of the State regarding hunting, fishing & trapping more so than anybody else, that I can see. You'll enjoy it.

An "11 page survey, which was mailed to 7,000 randomly selected big-game license holders" . I can't imagine the time and money that that has/will cost. Hundreds of man hours to come up with a survey, mail it out then HOPE like hell they get filled out then sent back in. Process them and review the results. They (DEC) already knows what they are going to do...................

Don't know for sure growie but Google can help with that. A friend loads up when he is in Pittsburgh and I'm always impressed with the quality. Wish they'd come to buffalo as my Sam's club deal is no more.....

Rosie......................UGGH. I was curious because I thought they were going to do one here but I haven't seen or heard anything on it. When is yours expected to open?

Maybe you should read post #1 in this thread because I don't think you did.