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I think those with common sense an practicality don't make hunting purchases.

My bad...but couldn't care less. Did you help the thread author too? Hawks terrorize them all day and owls all night. One thing about birds form a pen most don't get is the smell on their feet most certainly leads to an easy track and kill for critters with noses and that's if they dodge the boys in the sky.

The only part I like about mandatory ARs is they force the ethical (oxymoron use) gun hunters to slow down on lead flinging to eye up a bucks head gear. My wish list? I want the DEC to do its job. Census the herd (within feasible means, not based on buck take), push to have control over game species and game laws- that's there fight not mine, and work on improving the hunting experience and MORESO interaction. Not-so random surveys and exclusive channels through sportsman's clubs is crap. JH's comments on the internet limits contributions at the meeting is BS their damn continually failing and remodeled license (and reporting) system is all electronic. They don't want to know, care if they did, take the money and run....I would like the QDMA to step in and fear it may be more of the similar for activity.

Obviously thanks is necessary but they are a government entity designed to serve us as well. We tip waiters/waitresses but it is their job, right? What other events has the DEC come out to? There is no quality deer management in NY beyond the micro levels of persons w such interest (who typically provide better hunting for their neighbors than themselves). How balanced is our herd? if I said- How many does should I harvest on my farm you'd likely reply with you need o census them first. why doesn't the DEC make attempts to census the herd with open channels? They openly admitted their other (closed door) ideas have failed. Age & health are the quality deer part and unless you drink Hurst's Kool Aid- we both know it is not present here in most areas. Why didn't the QDMA (itself) have formal questions for Art and Jeremy at the meeting? It is my right to speak my mind and more I see it as an expensive magazine subscription. Oh yeah- Enrollment is higher due to branding- cool swag not the cause. Other states have called out where do our dollars go and where are your efforts. Not there yet, but youth days and fund raising dinners are doing as much for Quality Deer as my big game license dollars are returned to deer species, habitat and hunting improvements.

Thank you. Mike, simply put (and explaining so much of my aggravation here) is I feel betrayed by the QDMA with regard to complementing the DEC on their efforts. I had 750 responses on a survey coming form my barstool effort. The QDMA could organize a much larger survey and force it in the face of the DEC but I feel they do not as thee don't want to ruffle feathers. Whether taken out of context or not some of Kips comments related to JH and the Big Game "board' of the DEC were BS. I would bet my ground the far majority of the hunters here (full of chit or otherwise) feel the DEC makes claims, comments and stats that are BS. As posted in CC's reply above w regard to numbers, their on paper only math only approach to census, surveys and takes is a crock. No body can push back because we are all so divided. I hear all bout QDMA youth days and fund raisers but where the heck is the real deer involvement? The Buff-Niag chapter doesn't even meet. Your chapter has done a lot, as have you, but there should be national support working on the NYSDEC issues. 50M a year in license sales and the first interaction Ive had with the DEC on deer just took place at the little Henrietta meeting. I felt Jeremy looked down his nose at all of us the whole time and was brazen with his "provide us your ideas BUT....." discussion.

Did you believe that over half the buck take is 2.5 or older? that only 40% of harvests are reported? that 2700 respondents were enough to make laws for the whole state? that voluntary ARs are enough? Not sure what luxury acreage you have but in NY unless sits fenced you don't own enough to make a difference and again you don't know me or who could school you on deer and deer management

What stones have been thrown? Ive been practicing qdm since the late 90s, and would dare to bet a member of the QDMA since the start. I see exactly what it is about here.. and you may not like that but it is what it is. Why not step up? Nice default rhetoric. I spent 8-9 hour son that deer survey that flew around and went to the courtship dance with the DEC in Henrietta over an hour away the night before I had to drive 13 hours. You've got no idea what I do or where....just because you pay your dues and wear a hat doesn't mean you have cause or concern.

I appreciate it. Ill gladly run the editorial review on yours when you make one. That's what you have to love about forums. Armchair QBs come out to help post completion. Do you think I am going to make another one? What was your desired end goal for that contribution? Take flack over no comments section, it doesn't have crossbows and improper DMAP context but who in this conversation actually did something? Ill take swing and miss over keeping the bench warm every day.....and I found enough from this exercise to know where the facts reside.

When is the last time a hunting show impressed you? They're the equivalent of watching porn to feel loved. Unrealistic crap ruining our love of the outdoors.

Have raised an d released a lot of bird the predators that kill the most birds are avian- hawks and owls. Throw in cars, cats, fox, coons, possums, fischers, mink and some others I have forgot and you have a go no-where proposition

feel so much could be said about how NY deer hunters only contribute to opening day of gun activities.....really starting to see how easy it would be to steer hunters any which way due the lack of participation(read as "rebuttal") by the powers that be. Our license dollars are flat out wasted for the most part and as deer hunters we get NOTHING back from the state

In this forum the one directly below this that's titled NY deer hunter survey results ".............

Mike What is the NYQDMAs agenda? I've posted this before- I am a Qdma member and feel sold out to read how They thank the dec for their efforts to reach out and work with hunters. That's a crock. The dec is inept and letting all of us who hunt deer down. They're not managing the herd or interacting with hunters.. And the quality deer part is bs as well as we all disagree with their reported harvest numbers and ages. I totally agree with you on the NYSCC and will add it's a crock of chit they are mandated to be part of anything. Guessing most of us have never met the members let alone have been questioned by them. I also see they have a fee to join which says a lot. As for how hard it is to do the survey- quite contrary. I am guy none of you know and I had 500+ responses in a day. The dec, who's job is to know what hunters desire, should do far better than 2700 unless that's their scape goat. Judging by my conversations and survey responses that contradict theirs (always have too).... They want no opposition. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow two of you totally took that out of context- that was posted while the survey was still going- I wanted unbiased participation. The results have since been posted on here and all the other forums where the survey was- weeks ago

Dissect what you did to get on him and use more skill than luck. Great job and congrats! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Me

100% correct. Can't believe anyone missed it as it was on the trending list for at least 5-6 weeks and posted on all the ny hunting related Facebook feeds.

You're off the mark with the crossbow theory to some degree. I wrote the survey. Crossbows, and other implants/regs have the deer community divided. My goal was to remove such divisions and have unity in deer hunters responses. Personally I think our own internal turmoil can be part of how we as a whole get railroaded with bad umbrella level regs. I thought the survey was rather unbiased in most regards. You should start a survey for crossbows and see if you're right or not.

attached NY Deer Hunter Satisfaction Survey (Jan-March 16).pdf

A couple of small surprises. very sad that of the half-three quarters of a million licensees in this state the such a small percentage will participate. It was interesting to get a few pms from folks who said why bother (w regard to the DEC).

Your dad, kid or disabled neighbor aren't my pariah. The average joe who has a gun season starting during chase phase, running the same length as archery season, is the issue. We do not need more of that mentality in the woods or altering the herd structure or harvest. Glad you enjoy archery, and your avatar has my think you enjoy older deer.... This conversation is about preserving that. All of these jackasses that claim they're the same are wrong and if we want to make it equal opportunity let's follow ohios one and done plan...but then all of the cross I advocates would sing a new song. Cool on your kiddo w steel. I would guess the yotes take out over 50% of the fawn crop annually. This was nowhere near the case 5 or 10 years ago. They're gaining on the predator side of the cycle. When our nasty snow gets an ice crust they're on adults. We also have had some brutal winters. I believe with all my heart they're doing the dec s dirty over harvest work and are the ideal apex predator for such a small parcel environment as wNY.

The dec needs lots of help alright. Picture a woman on a shopping spree without knowing her bank account balance. They're following PA to save the woods and running our herd into the ground. More weapons- more people- more kills early- less satisfaction for deer movement- orange army driving at sunup in November. Kill em all.

Hunting and area is pressure there, your path in and your downwind plume. Killing a deer leaves even more residual scent, especially in light of an arrow hit deer running into thicker cover often. Doe bedding areas become chase phase prime areas at the start of November. Pressure is displacement of deer- why this crossbow thing bugs the heck out of me is crossbows are more like guns than vertical bows and their users will hunt the same way (let alone the recovery and safety factor). The state can't manage budgets and we both can be rest assured they can't do it for deer/Hunter numbers. Note where the big doe push areas are and how they relate to urban and infrastructure layout. [emoji849]

That's my point- you're following tag numbers not actual deer numbers. You hunt in an area with no deer of course they can't kill what's there. You're point on separation holds some merit - your zone and area is nothing like the west. When you have the dec making up population numbers, handing out 60000 dmps in regions and you have a Hunter saturated area the addition of a gun Hunter derived weapon is a totally different deal. Too many closed minded folks think convenience in weapon or their entitlement- not that deer are an animal and resource....let alone one that's easily depleted. Spend one week in the woods as a vertical bow archer and your crusade here would've never surfaced. As for the yotes my kids too. Then again showed them how a trap won't break your hand and how coyote start by eating the hams of a live animal- nothing is fair in this world but being uneducated is a choice. Just remember that great force that I you're praising for strides w xbows and doe numbers says yotes have a negligible impact on the herd. Kool Aid tastes different now doesn't it?

great deal- bump