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And pay them with license dollars...maybe they have some extra allocated in the human dimensions Cornell fund 64? Hmm...maybe counting the school staff and kids helping?

Free Kool Aid at the DEC stand if youre thirsty.......

Agreed- there is not pinnacle. I think a huge issues - regardless of the side youre on- is the DEC has too little staff and say on things that should be in their court. We actually don't have a deer czar or anyone at the helm. Jeremy started about bears and Arts talk was on deer impact socially not how they know things they attempt to make determinations on . 50 M in license sales and no one is in charge of just deer. Name one deer hunting specific project or area the DEC has contributed toward hunter satisfaction? They never have. Total BS. I even feel robbed by that presentation.

Wow- was going to play a game of "who are the HNY DEC fan boys?"...but quit because it was too easy. It stunk and the turnout was around 30. I do commend the Art and Jeremy, as well as the QDMA's effort, for coming out but it was everything I thought it would be. Boring, arrogant, empirical and of one directions.....and the Q&A period ended before the questions did. Jeremy's presentation was well prepared but from the top of the mountain. Art's presentation might have well be Gary Alt's from a few years back minus the mention of ARs. It is kill every doe to save the understory/early successional forest growth. Ill take a shot at the QDMA for not having their presence in the questions/stances presented. Seemed like their take (in my eyes) is not to upset the apple cart...but the QDMAs rating and deer report numbers sure have changed lately BP's mention of hypocrisy was spot on. We dont set costs or deal with moneys vs Everything we do has to be cost effective Hunter satisfaction is a largest priority vs social effect Out of state studies show vs If its not NY you cant reference it Deer management is the biggest priority vs Bears, phone calls, etc Randomly selected vs 7 regions of selected folks Do whats needed on your ground vs Empirical directive (Doe harvest numbers) Make a suggestion vs "that wont work" Predator/Winters matter vs They don't Macro management should matter most vs Our macro survey covers the majority take We work with the QDMA vs Reality on hunter harvest Hunter input desired vs MAR need 65-70% approval We cannot reach everyone for their opinion electronically but we use electronic licensing system We gather enough data on reported harvest tags to know 45% report but don't have enough info for citations on untagged deer Time for a new plan vs An early ML season is the next step Predetermined deer management plan vs realistic happenings (ie horrific winter index) If I wasn't n vacation and aggravated as all hell with this topic perhaps I could be a bit more articulate. Cant help the irony of the DEC fan boys on here with their take of youre on board or against them. The majority of hunters disagree with the DEC but they tout open communication and consideration. What? They're going to increase voluntary restrictions but don't know how. What? Theyre open to making things better but will ask 30 guys in a room the ideas how. What? they want sportsmans takes but use limited clubs and surveys to determine those mass opinions. What? Nearly all that spoke mentioned drastically lower populations but this region has too many does in their eyes. What? Please submit your opinion if we select you to do so. What? The DEC is caught in the cuffs of Albany...I agree. BUT for the near 50million in NY licenses sales they fund Cornell for hokie surveys, hold social meetings for deer human interaction concerns and this is the first darn meeting for deer hunter DEC interface I know of..... They are failing us. Surely someone will pose the "Whats your solution?" reply but its not my job; its theirs. They are failing us miserably and our funds are pizzed out the window and we are handcuffed more than they claim they are.

Sweet dream today- great time Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Have about 725 responses...shoot me a pm with your email or let me know which questions specifically youre after on results .. still hesitant to post everything online

best time of the year to scout so youre looking at it all wrong

Whether they meet the silly criteria or not...most owners havent registered them and i'm guessing that would be an issue dependent on who was interrogating

Have that, his double glass, his slate and may justify his al to replace my drury al one.... not a fan boy or even a great peg/pot caller...prefer mouth calls but when his calls are played right is sounds like a bird is in your hand.... amazing Bunch oh strikers too- some Halloran...some various

Agree with you theory (conspiracy or plausible) 100%

In a recent similar grass roots survey it appears 85% feel there are less deer than theyre used to in their hunting career

I'd rather be called "obnoxious" by those to stupid to think for themselves and too scared to act than keep a perspective of another's backside as my best means of navigation. Unlike the usual cast of complainers in NY my concerns lie more with tomorrow the previous 45 years of bad choices I found comfort in.

As well. That is exactly why we get served gruel.

Perhaps it was supposed to be a 20% survival rate of fawns due to predation NY also has coyote seasons- one that was shrunk and conveniently ends mid march when pups emerge from the den. You cant kill them all, but they're far more of fawn and adult deer killer. They kill what they need and sometimes what they want. The gnaw the a$$ out of living animals to return and take more but the intent is to eat living tissue. On death they may or may not come back. Want to argue what they eat? Look at their droppings. Feeling like too many here are taking the DEC's (or antis) argument hook, line and sinker

My bad- Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

About 675.... which speak in volumes on a number of things.

There is an amazing awakening in a mans mind when he learns hunting has nothing to do with buying things........ gotta love NY. I'm sure some of the posters here have looked for "hard work" and "pre-season scouting" in a Cabelas catalog.

Guys- please forward the link to others- it only takes about 3 mins on a smart phone.

Thinking you guys should Google compounding interest because the formulae and math presented is not proper

Waterfowl guy too- the HIP number call is a survey....used to complete the Ruffed Grouse one...It was suggested I partake in the bowhunter observation log by the DEC biologist I spoke with- mind you they stopped that in 2012. Ugh. Unless you make an argument using statically equations I don't think they'll care..then again I don't think anyone of them has gone outside in years....let along hunting which some claim to do All of NYs biggest problems are in Albany

Glad you guys contributed. It may have seemed anonymous but they were not learned that in a conversation with the DCE yesterday. Not saying its good or bad but its anything but random or unknown.

Culver Crk- I personally feel the QDMA is about membership more than deer. As stated before I am a member but not with the passion I used to have by any degree. Where were they with all of these deer season (non) changes? How can they buy the crap harvest stats the state throws out? Just my opinion...sure many will flame me for it too. Otto- you are the first person I know of to say they took the Cornell survey. I would love to hear more about it. As for the 2700...I got some background on why that offered enough statistical significance for the DEC to use HOWEVER it still doesn't bode well with me knowing that 1:278 representation.

Saw a few groups as well...maybe upper thirties total....half dozen that were still carrying for sure. Checked a moon app on my phone- they called it as the best day this month....always hate when that thing is right. lol

I meant the New York State Conservation Council. Larry- Thanks for the clarification. Even if the DEC commissioned it- why use this group and not another or the logical mass survey? I find it ironic that their findings mirror their take..hence my comments about knowing where PETA, QDMA or another group would be called out for a "likely result". Per my eyes his particular group is a fee to join and pulls its crossections from clubs... who the heck belongs to a club anymore? I am sure the mean age of club members and that of hunters differs too.... Our opinions should be desired, vocalized and given a fair channel without bias to be presented. There will be a paradigm when any liaison is utilized or received (going back to Cornell). Our fees pay for this...lets ask for the best service possible...not the friends of friends plan.

Did I miss something?.....because Nuisance Permits and antlered deer aren't a NY thing Seems to be a thread of arguments based on exceptions from what (little) I read.