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I feel like I'm debating with children. Ok then......this thread will end shortly but ugly is forever. Care to deny it?

I'll keep pointing out the truth. Get used to it!

My point is that compounds and the like were added to seasons because they fit into that season. Crossbows have been around since the stone age and were not included in archery season because it is not archery equipment. They are only being considered now because of $$$.

If there was no such thing as hunting "seasons" I would agree with you. However, it's not a free for all.

Then why wasn't the crossbow included when the archery season was first originated? Let me give you a hint, because it is not archery equipment. It is akin to a gun. We haven't needed it in archery season for all this time and we don't need it now in my opinon.

I think now a days the cost of land and taxes are so high folks question letting others on for free. In the old days it was really no big deal. Everyone hunted everywhere.

I agree Doc. Seems everyone is trying to get a piece of archery season these days i.e. crossguns, ML, special rifle season ect...and if you put up a legitimate fight to preserve the season you love you are labeled "selfish". Now they want our private property. I guess Obama and socialism is catching on!

4,700 surveys were sent out and only 2,200 people responded. That's pathetic. There should have been alot more sent out. Why couldn't they let everyone who cares participate? It could have been done on line. There are over 600,000 big game hunters and 2200 is not a big enough sample.

So you are against small game, turkey and goose seasons? All of those occur during bow season. Who said that? I am neutral on those seasons and don't expect the DEC to remove them. I'm just saying No Mas.

I thought we moved opening day to Saturday in 2005 for the kids? So why not make that weekend the "special season" but frankly I don't see the need now that the age limit has been lowered and opening day is a saturday. That should be enough for full youth participation. I'm not against the kids. I have kids. I'm just against guns before or during archery season which should be 10/1 until 11/19.

Gman you're delerious. Stop gripping your guns so hard!

Yeah I do alot of state land hunting which influences alot of my opinions. I am not rich like some of you who have their own food plots and can set up on bachelor groups at field edges on October 1st. I already share the archery woods with other bowhunters, turkey hunters, and small game hunters. This is tough enough. Seems most of you on this site would like to add muzzleloaders, shotguns, rifles, and crossbows. Well, I say enough is enough. The gunners pretending to be bowhunters on this site call me greedy and selfish, but we already have a very very long gun season so there should be no reason to constantly try to find a way to take prime time away from archery season.

Maybe the first saturday would be a good compromise. Look at 2013. It would be gun season from October 12 - 18.

NO. How about the first saturday in October? This year it would be 10/1,2,3. followed by the ML season if necessary. They always complain about the cold weather anyways so let them hunt with shorts on.

I could swallow that alot easlier than in the middle of October. Good idea, if it has to be.

Gman, I'm sure most gun hunter feel the same way as you. ;D

Big time. But watch out, the solution the DEC will probably go with is to close the archery season for that week so this gimmick season can take place.

Yes I would rather have it like it is versus guns in the middle of archery season. I don't get real excited about hunting in 70 degree heat with mosquitoes and all the leaves on the trees.

That's a ridiculous argument. Plenty of guys will take advantage. and just because you are not out there doesn't mean other bow hunters are not. and just because you are not out there does not mean it won't screw the hunting up.

8N was just an example. Let's say they opened 8H to an early ML season. Gunners would know this in advance and simply purchase DMP's for that unit flooding the woods. Not good for archery season! And definately not safe for me as I stalk through the woods in full camo hoping not to get shot by a 15 yr old. But if we complain about safety I'm sure the DEC will just close archery season for that week. Again I don't see the need for any early gun seasons. Lowering the legal age to gun hunt should get the kids interested early. no need for a special season now.

If unit 8N (for example) is the only DMU in the area to have an early ML season, don't you think it would draw crowds from the surrounding DMU's that don't have that season trying to get in the the action? I bet an early ML would have a big impact on archery season and would have gun hunters lined up to buy a new inline to shoot 200yds.

In the DMU I hunt they give DMP's away like candy so I expect to be dodging ML slugs after the kids are done hammering away. Last year they were giving away extra DMP's first come first serve after 11/1.

my point was it was probably mostly gun hunters in favor of these early gun seasons yet it was archery season which was effected. they could have taken three days from gun season for the youth hunt or pushed gun season back.

Not real happy about a week long gun hunt in the middle of archery season. Once again archery season took it on the chin and gun season was unchanged.(neither shortened or pushed back).

Salaries are big but the benefit packages are the real expense to tax payers. Teachers get the cadillac of heath care and retire with full benefits I believe. I have a good job with good health insurance but I pay alot for it and the deductibles and copays are big. And when I retire there is no more medical coverage. Medicare is the same way. for example if I need an MRI my deductible is $500 and copays after that. teachers union and medicare walk right in with little or no deductible or copays. we pay the taxes for their coverage which is better than I get.