sampotter

Plus they taste better when they bleed out. The best tasting deer is a yearling doe with no fawns that was shot in the heart with an arrow in October.

I apologize if it looked like I was trying to bait you. I was just trying to get you to make a clear statement of where you stand on the subject. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It would be a boring thread if everyone all agreed and held hands. My accidental head shot experiences: 1) My 1st year bowhunting I was still hunting and saw a buck. He was at about 40 yards and I shot. I heard it hit and he took off running. Very good blood trail all the way to the deer. When I found him I was shocked and horrified to see the arrow sticking out of his neck just behind the jaw (not totally a head shot). The broadhead severed the jugular. I was aiming at his chest when he shot. I'm not sure exactly what happened but I certainly did not hit where I wanted to. It could have gone a lot worse, I just got really lucky. That was several years ago. 2) 3-4 years ago I was in a tree on opening day in CT. I saw a coyote and lip squeaked it in. It was slightly quartering to at 10 yards so I waited until it turned its head away to expose the chest. At the shot the coyote dropped on the spot. When I got down I saw that the arrow had struck 1/2 cm above the left eye and exited just above the right ear. The only thing I could think of was the coyote snapped its head back towards me when it heard the string drop and intercepted the arrow. Both examples are reasons why the head shot is not a viable decision. The margin for error is so small and even the slightest movement on the target end can result in a disaster. (Example- the doe in NJ this past season) It doesn't matter if you name is Oh Jin-Hyek and you can robinhood an arrow at 70 meters with a recurve; when hunting you are not in complete control of the situation. As bowhunters we don't need bad press. Deer with arrows sticking out of their heads under backyard bird feeders really hurt our image. Even if a hunter could consistently pull the head shot off it would only encourage others to attempt the same. A shot aimed at the heart will still hit other vitals and kill the deer if the arrow strikes within 4" of the point of aim. There's a lot more leeway and allowance for hunter error or the deer moving.

I thought you were a proponent of archery headshots Shawnhu- at least that's how I interpreted your post in the other thread: Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:41 PM by Shawnhu "Good job on dropping both your targets, and nice work on the headshot. A lot of haters here when it comes to headshot deer."

I'm not offended and I agree. I kind of thought head shots were unethical and unacceptable but there is a recent thread in which a few people applauded the OP's successful headshot (archery) on a small doe.

In order to not hijack a different thread I started this one. I know mistakes can happen and deer can move but does anyone really think that deliberately trying to shoot a deer in the head with an arrow is ethical?

If he would just not fight one of these years you could find some nice sheds. Maybe he'll have to be geriatric before he stops getting into pub brawls.

Grow- if you plant anything else with your corn you will have the saddest looking corn ever. Corn won't handle competition early on- ask the organic farmers....

I know they are ground up and used as some sort of aphrodisiac or whatever in Asia. If you're going to snort it you may want to lock yourself in a room by yourself for awhile...

I was hoping so! I'm not sure what antler "scent" smells like. Freshies smell like buck and bark, the old ones smell like dirt. One time one of the dogs picked up one that a fox had been using as a scent marking post. That one rode in the back of the pickup....

I couldn't find the antler scented candles? I think I've seen this product or something similar in BPS. Probably works but I just use the real deal.

Your dog could be great at it. The retrieving instinct is important although I always wondered if I could get a pointer to point sheds. I started my labs as pups (8 weeks) just playing fetch with a small antler. Every time I would toss the antler I would say "search". I would also drop treats on the floor and say "search". This trains them that when they hear "search" they are supposed to be looking for something. Also- they never see antlers unless it is either training or search time (this keeps them from getting bored with the antler). Once the pups got so big that I couldn't throw the antler far enough before they got there, I started hiding the antlers and then working the pups downwind of them using the "search" command. It is really fun to train them and watch them work. So far, the dogs work better separate than together. If one finds an antler the other one tries to steal it and they don't focus like they do when alone. I'm still trying to figure this out.

Geez- I was more concerned about the headshot on the doe. Glad it worked out. P.S. I thought we had a "My Slammer" thread going. I'm more than a bit disappointed.

The dogs...

I bought mine through Natchez SS. Apparently Savage did a limited run of 1000 or so. I was flipping through the catalog and saw it in there, did a double-take, and placed my order the very next morning. Because mine is newer it came with the accutrigger as well.

Subscribed. I'm glad to see you haven't found any yet... There's still hope for me. I went out yesterday and saw a crotch with only one side but I didn't find any bone....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/about_smokeless_muzzleloading.htm In here it says that smokeless pressures can be less than the maximum load for conventional inlines. Like troutfisher said though- I ain't trying it! I have a Savage. I bought it in 2011 with the intention of using it during shotgun season in Cayuga County. Of course the DEC made rifles a legal implement in 2012, so I don't shoot it as much as I had originally planned. My only complaint about it is the weight.

Oh boy- where's the popcorn...

I know,I know. I used 'breed' more as of a figure of speech although one could argue that there is a bit of a blurry line between the large canid species in North America.. As some DNA studies have shown.

Yep- those wolves are literally a different breed. I assume not from Westchester? 18" long or L+W?

I forgot I had this old photo of Reuben Cary with the "Last Adirondack Wolf", killed in 1893 on my family's property. As mentioned earlier it was DNA tested in the last 10 years or so and was shown to have Red Wolf genes, similar to the Algonquin Wolves of Ontario. It doesn't look any bigger than the coyotes we have there today.

Huh- I never noticed they could use molars. Good to know.

I've done 6 of them through deerage.com. $25 I believe. You need the 2 front incisors though. I would be really interested to see what cementum annuli would say about the 5.5 buck you showed. I look at his jaw picture and anyone can see his teeth are very worn- even more so than a buck I killed in the ADKS last year that was aged by CA to be a 5 year old. I then look at the kill pic of your same buck and without seeing other angles of his body I wouldn't dare call him more than 3? Maybe he was older than 5 and on the downward slide? I've run a lot of skulls through the buckboiler over the past 3 years and one thing is very consistent: the nose bones on deer <4 years old always fall out and I have to glue them back in. Not so with the older deer.

As long as they have antlers on their heads they will rub trees. Some people have found sheds either hanging in a rubbed tree or at the base of one. I also have several trail cam videos of button bucks rubbing existing rubs.

You don't think there is a general and noticeable increase in mass from 3 to 4 years of age?

It's a simple process of elimination. Most bucks never live to see 5 years of age. If you can tell that he's at least 3 it is likely that you've narrowed it down to 3-5 years of age. If you guess 4 then you are within a year which is just as good as most biologists can do with tooth wear.