sampotter

This is NY not MO.

This makes sense...

There's been enough threads on here where people have posted studies, articles, etc. and every time you discredit them as being biased or driven by a hidden agenda. There's no point in beating a dead horse. You're as stubborn as they come and to you the only correct side of the argument is yours. I just keep replying for fun; I know I'm not going to change your opinion. I would've thought you would have blisters on your fingers by now from all that typing...

I guess you know more about dairy farming and purebred cattle than I do.

International Intrigue Averages $52,300 and Grosses Nearly $6.5 Million July, 26 2014 The 2014 International Intrigue held at Milksource Genetics in Kaukauna, WI is in the books with a $52,300 average on 123 live lots, with a $6,435,800 gross. This one was bred by me (SRP are my initials). Unfortunately I only got $2000 for her when I sold her as a heifer in 2011... Lot 10-$142,000: MS-SRP Absolute Pro-Red-ET, a 4 Year Old Absolute scored VG 88 from an Advent

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Come on FSW- the market for purebred dairy cattle generates a heck of a lot more money than deer breeding stock ever does. No dairy farmer is out there trying to twist state regulations for dairy cattle diseases into some sort of conspiracy theory. As far as the live infected deer vs. grain and hay from CWD+ states; you keep telling everyone else to use their brain, use yours. One infected deer actively shedding CWD in feces, urine, etc. has a lot more risk potential than feed coming out of CWD+ states. Not to mention the majority of that feed is not being ingested by cervids..

FSW- I made the statement for the enjoyment of other readers as well as my own....This is more fun than throwing rocks at a hornet's nest! Plus, if CWD didn't have a detrimental effect on cervids, then why even bother to identify the disease? Or maybe it's not about deer at all... Prions are the nastiest thing around and have been well documented to make the jump from four legged critters to humans. The last thing anyone wants is for people to start getting sick from CWD like they have from BSE, aka Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease in humans.

FSW- maybe they should let some farm deer loose in the areas that they are using birth control... That way they can spread CWD to the resident population and the birth control won't be needed!

Well, yes, sort of. Thermals come into play whether there is other wind or not, but other wind changes what happens to your scent where the two meet.

Fletch -that track gets the heart pumping! Big, with uneven toes... mmmmm..... The blue urine is from eating buckthorn berries. Here is a link to a response from the Ny DEC about blue rabbit urine: http://www.dec.ny.gov/pubs/62212.html

There have been a lot of good tips so far. One thing for sure is you can't determine the sex of a deer by looking at the track alone. Nor can you tell how big a rack a buck may have just by looking at the track. About the only thing the track will tell you is relative size of the deer, which needs to be compared to other deer in the immediate area. I've spent a lot of time looking for those picture book 200# + buck tracks like the Benoits find in Maine in ON. It took me a long time to realize that most of the mature bucks in the areas I hunt just don't weigh that much. The bucks I've killed in the Adirondacks dressed 191, 181, and 176. The 2nd two were later in the season, so they could have been 200ish earlier in the fall, but they just weren't hog-bodied bucks. There was a Lane Benoit podcast in which he mentions Hal Blood having trouble finding big buck tracks in the area of the Adirondacks he was hunting. Turned out, the bucks weren't just as heavy as he was used to although they may have had great racks. On the other hand, you may be able to tell a bit about how old a deer is by the shape and condition of the track. Sharp, even prints generally mean younger deer. Rounded and/or uneven length toes should mean the deer is a little on the older side. Rack vs track: as mentioned above, the track size alone tells you nothing about the buck's rack. There are a lot of examples of smaller than average-bodied bucks having huge racks. As others mentioned about judging antler size while on a track- you can get an idea of rack width by watching how narrow of an opening a buck will pass through. Other clues left by the antler are obvious like rubs along the track, but more subtle ones are spots where a buck passes under a spruce bow and breaks off dead twigs with his tines. Also, when feeding in the snow you may see where the main beams made marks in the snow around the edges. Once in a great while you will see the imprint of an antler in the snow at a bed from when the buck rested his head. I think I've seen this once. The best you can do as far as judging rack size while following the track is width and relative main beam length, but if I find myself on the track of a buck I already believe is mature based on hoof shape/characteristics I'm not really worried about the score of the rack. I have yet to be disappointed by a mature buck's rack. By following tracks you can also find out the deer's general mood; horny, hungry, lazy, etc. Even small parcel hunters can learn a lot by following tracks on the properties they hunt, just do it with caution or do it after the season is over. Finding out how deer use your property and most importantly- where they bed can make a huge difference.

I think this would have to be the scenario.. The deer would be disproportionate, but I bet if you ever did find that type of track, the deer wouldn't be able to run as fast as a normal deer! I guess the moral of the story is; just because it is in a book doesn't mean it's true.... I've never once seen a track like that, not even with the biggest tracks I've seen. In all the tracking books I have there are plenty of examples of tracks made by 200# + bucks and I can't ever recall something like that.

Gosh dang, the old boy in the back left has some mass! I remember you posting his sheds for a few years. What did he ever score out at? Nice collection. I'm guessing I have roughly the same amount, but not sure. Have you come up with any great display ideas? (I personally don't care for shed piles, nor the little shed display brackets.)

The only thing that shot was below was the hair line... Definitely above the spine... by several inches. I bet he makes it. He looks to be in good condition otherwise. Maybe he'll sprout some NT points next year as a result? He already had awesome brows for starters.

Where'd you get that chart? The tracks in the top right are something I've never seen in my life. I'd love to know where that idea came from. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I read in 3 different books in the last 2 weeks that a nice neat pee hole is made by a buck and the splatter is made by a doe. One author even said the neat pee hole is made by the buck when rub-urinating!

A vaccine that works 20% of the time after 8 boosters in 11 months is simply something that FAILED. Having been part of a lot of scientific animal research, the data set is insignificantly small. It's even possible that the animal was somehow naturally resistant to CWD. It is a fact that the deer farming industry primarily facilitated the spread of CWD. It may not been the end of the world and neither is HIV/AIDS, but it would have been better if these diseases had stayed where they originated.

So, I'm now assuming this thread was posted to illustrate how silly the sunrise/sunset law is? I can't see anything else that would make someone hesitate to shoot that buck...

I prefer Reproduction Specialist

I'm trying to figure out who would say no and why....

Pretty close. All I do all day everyday is manage the reproduction on our 1800 cow dairy. My # priority is to get them pregnant so they will have another calf and make more milk. I know more about cow reproduction than a lot of veterinarians. Cows and deer are very similar...

I don't know if that one counts Wooly.. Kind of like referring to the mother of your children a milf.. Lol

Good point that everyone else overlooked! Doe pee holes are usually nice, clean holes in the snow with no dribbles. Bucks tend to pee all over "like a garden hose no one is holding on to". I agree with Nyantler that this looks more likely to be buck urine- and he's not likely to be in heat, or always in heat depending on how you look at it. In fact, I saw this doe pee hole yesterday and took a picture, just so I could illustrate this point at some future time...

Thanks! If I see a deer up there I've had a good day.

I'd go with the injury/infection theory then.