sampotter

Here is a whopper Pennsylvania buck. A salesman came by the farm today- looked at his trail cam pics more than his products. Maybe he should be selling lottery tickets to hunt his spot instead. Easy 170 if not knocking on 180. How do you like antler restrictions now?

Couldn't help but notice that last pick has a buck just out of velvet and one that is still in velvet. It has started...

Let 'em all grow to 4yrs+ regardless of points. I would love to shoot a 5yr-old spike someday with antlers like daggers. Forget about trying to influence genetics. I am a dairy geneticist by trade; the type of genetic selection we practice is a million times more intense than can ever be attempted in the deer woods. There is a computer chip (genomic test) that analyzes a bull calf's DNA and gives a >70% accurate prediction of what his daughters phenotypic traits will be; stuff like body size and even teat length. Even with this kind of tool it takes generations of breeding to change a selected trait. Trying to influence your local deer herd's geentics by shooting bucks that don't meet a certain criteria is a waste of time and a waste of your buck tag unless; A) you have a way to control what animals make up your herd (high fence) you can control which buck breeds which doe (good luck, use your imagination) C) you know what type of antler genes your does carry (genomic test, doesn't exist for deer) Deer farmers that have a high fence, use artificial insemination, and have pedigrees of their deer's lineage that would rival that of Secretariat are the only ones that have a realistic chance of manipulating a (captive) deer herd's antler genetics. I advocate letting bucks mature (>3yr) before shooting them. At that age, any buck is a trophy, even if he is still a 6 or 7 pt. (That is not me in the picture) http://www.wisconsinsportsmanmag.com/hunting/WI_0707_01/

Bushnell Trophy Cams are what I'm using. Decent trigger speed, amazing battery life, and good video capability.

Looks like a lot of potential in those bucks

nice deer

I know- it just makes me sick. There is a clear line in my book between right and wrong- apparently these types don't see it that way, but I wish they wouldn't try to sell it to the public as real. Pathetic really.

I'm actually surprised that it is legal to shoot animals inside a fence. If those "game" animals were cows, horses, or big,mean dogs there would be a huge outcry. I have seen pictures of jackasses posing with woolly Merino rams, likely fresh off the farm. Wouldn't it be more fun to shoot rats in the dumpster in the city than shoot a domesticated animal?

I hope nobody on here does this and thinks they are actually a hunter...

I'm sure its a real picture. The buck's back is probably broken from a car and he can't even feel the bear chewing on him.

Amen WNYBuckHunter. PATIENCE, PERSISTENCE, and SKILL are a few of the key virtues of the most consistent and successful hunters. Anybody can get lucky once, twice is a fluke, but three times or more means they know what they are doing. Is there anyone reading this forum that is truly satisfied with shooting 4 and 6 pt bucks every year? I can't imagine that anyone here doesn't daydream of the "Thirty Pointer" when on stand. Every county in NY can produce bucks that are 140+. Which county has the most P+Y non-typical entries in NY? Suffolk County on Long Island! Why? The restrictions on legal weapons and the amount of off-limet "sanctuaries" allows bucks to grow older and BIGGER. Bucks aren't even truly mature until they are 5-6 years old, which is when they generally reach maximum antler growth. I always feel good letting young bucks walk and feel even more like an evolved predator because I could have killed, but chose not too. Below are 3 young 'uns I let walk. The biggest was a 3yr old 7pt. This was all in Connecticut. I took these with my cell phone and sent them to my Dad, who responded with Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!

It appears you can put whatever spin you want on it. This article shows the benefits of ARs in PA http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/huntingtactics/NAW_0907_10/ If all you want is to see 30-40 does a day and whack an immature buck before his prime; don't support ARs. If you want a healthy deer herd and a legitimate chance at a whopper; support ARs. It is harder to kill a mature buck than a yearling however. I'm pretty sure the farmers in PA are thankful for a decrease in doe numbers too.

There is no correlation between the number of points a yearling deer has and how big their racks are at maturity. Phenotype(what wee see) is genetics + environment. A lot of the time environment makes up more than 70% of the equation. Read this article: http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/news/story?page=c_fea_QDMA_spike_equation

Don't get me wrong- I did kill 2 does in CT and 2 does in NY last year, so by definition I am a killer, but when I used "Killer" previously I meant someone who is more proud of how many they killed, not by what means or what the quality level is. I was that kind of person a few years back- before I started bowhunting, which taught me to be patient. I learned more about deer in my 1st year of bowhunting than in all my previous 21 years of life. I can't say I support ARs. Shoot what you want to shoot. However, it burns me up when my dad or my neighbor shoots a forkhorn right away (yep, got their buck) and then throws the rack in the back of the garage never to be seen again. Then they spend the rest of the season wondering why they never get a chance at a mature buck..? These types are everywhere-I'm directly descended from one. My old man darn near disowns me if I tell him I passed up a 6pt buck in the Adirondacks (I enjoy getting him fired up though)- "any buck is a good buck" he says. The difference is that he's a live buck in my hands, dead buck in my dad's. I thinks the 5pt he shot there 2yrs ago is still in the apple tree in the backyard getting chewed on by squirrels. He killed to "get his buck", didn't matter that it barely had antlers and didn't care what happened to the rack after he showed it off to his buddies. The last immature buck I shot was 6-7 years ago. I tracked a 2yr old 5pt buck in the Adirondacks for 6hrs- came up with the deer in the end. That rack hangs in the living room with the others. Whenever someone asks why I have that there I get to retell my story (gets better every time). I have since tracked other bucks that turned ot to be small- let them walk. Just part of maturing as a hunter I guess. My motto: Shoot whatever buck you want so long as the rack ends up on your wall, don't just shoot to "get your buck". It should mean something to you-it meant something to the deer that wore it.

Ideally it would be a maturity level restriction rather than pure points or width. Unfortunately ARs are the most accurate way to do it. Age is harder to judge than counting tines. In the end, all the arguments that ARs take away opportunities from hunters tell me that hunters are not in the woods for the right reasons. If success is measured by your death toll then you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you are a hunter or a killer. Killers need not apply. I spent endless hours in the woods last season- never had a chance at a mature buck. Let a nice 3yr old 8pt walk by the last day of bow season. Still loved evry minute of it and I know that when I get lucky enough to have a mature buck come by it will mean that much more, but it won't make or break me.

I will echo a couple of the other responders and reccomend Bushnell Trophy Cams. I have 6 of the 8mp IR ones from this year that I got off Ebay with free shipping for $174.99. Extra long battery life and great video capability, as well as being small makes them really handy.

I spliced together several parts of different videos and put them together. Comp.wmv

I have had bad luck with Stealth Cams working for more than one season. They work pretty well and then they just quit. No warrantee either. Have a Cuddeback IR, quick trigger but it eats batteries like no other. Now I have 6 Bushnell Trophy Cams- had over 6000 pics and 30min of video on one set of Walgreen's AA batteries. I am impressed. Trigger speed is good too.

Thats a bonafide S.T.U.D.- 160-165. Really symetrical with that neat cheater.

Big boy on video

More pics of the Tall 8pt and his lil' buddy. Also, a nice 10 and a peculiar 9 that is really narrow, but tall and heavy.-Sam

Here's some pics my brother sent me. Taken near Raquette Lake.

A couple of nice 8s from the Fingerlakes. The tall drink o' water is probably 145-150". The right G2 appears to be 13+". The other buck is only 3. -Sam Potter

I am all for AGE restrictions. Unfortunately it is difficult to train all hunters to judge the age of a buck the same way. Ideally, no bucks under 4yrs would get shot, but width or point restrictions are the best we can do. Think about this though: I support ARs more as a SAFETY tool than as a means to put a bigger buck on my wall. If you have to stop and count 3 or 4 points on an antler, you are more likely to confirm your target is in fact a deer. I'm sick of reading about idiots that shoot their buddy or relative because they saw "movement" . Worse yet, joggers get shot on dirt roads and housewives get shot hanging up the laundry. These idiots make us look bad and makes it unsafe to be in the woods. http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/12/nyregion/a-deer-hunter-kills-a-jogger-dressed-in-blue.html http://www.all-creatures.org/cash/taah-sh-20060508.html When we enter the woods with a deadly weapon we have to realize what is in our hands. Unfortunately stupid people are still allowed to buy hunting licenses just as easily as responsible ones. If ARs is what will cause hunters to SLOW down and study their quarry, then how can any sane person oppose it? You can argue the merits of growing more mature bucks vs. "brown its down", but anyone that disagrees with the safety issue doesn't deserve to carry a weapon into the woods...

My point is that while corn, soybeans, and alfalfa are available in the hundreds of acres there is no need to plant a plot just to provide forage to deer. Out-competing the attractiveness of crops is another story- so I would plant something the deer can't get anywhere else- or provide it in a setting that is more accessible or secure for the deer.