Curmudgeon

Called ECO's for: Shooting from inside a vehicle - more than once. Shooting a doe across the road from my house and then walking away without even checking. She was wounded. I followed her trail to posted land then called DEC. Killing 2 of my bronze turkeys in my yard - during deer season, with slugs. Shooting my barking dog. She was 50 yards from the house on my posted property. The house was not visible to the tresspassing hunter. The dog had a slug crease her nose but was otherwise fine. The hunter fled while I put on my boots. There was no snow to track him.

Thanks for that. I learned something new today.

The dense ferns - which look like hay-scented to me - suggest a heavy deer population - probably too many.

It's a barberry but I cannot tell from the photo what species. Japanese barberry in particular is a nasty invasive. Deer don't eat it. In areas that have been over-browsed - such as Harriman SP - it becomes a dominant understory species. KILL IT! I should qualify that. There is a native species but I don't know anyone who has seen it. Google Image Search https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=913&q=bar+berry&oq=bar+berry&gs_l=img.3...418.5636.0.6326.13.11.1.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..12.1.68.z26l-_zoUz0#tbm=isch&q=barberry

I came out of the woods a couple of years ago after seeing nothing all morning to find 18 feeding in the open across the road in what we call the Ferguson Deer Preserve.

I was napping in the woods once and a 12" snag broke off and landed parallel to my leg about 2' away. A little more and I might have needed life insurance.

Do baiting laws for deer and bear apply to cameras outside of hunting season or away from places where hunting is taking place?

Given the way the law reads, there isn't a jury in upstate NY that would convict someone for shooting off the pavement but still on the right-of-way.

These images were made in ballistic soap and are what happens in flesh. I have permission to use them for our lead-free ammo education efforts. Please note the lead fragments in images F and G. Click on the image to make it larger. You can find the article at http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0102015

Good info JimMac. I suspect that anyone who raises the liability issue is politely saying no and that offering to buy insurance will not matter. I never worry about liability for hunters. I am not about to go around filling in all the woodchuck holes that could break a leg.

All is well in 4F.

Deer numbers are probably slightly lower here. A walk around the yard a couple of evenings ago found only 22 - 5 bucks, 8 fawns, the rest does. Mid-30s would be more normal.

I came home from the mountains to find this in this weekend's edition of The Daily Star, Oneonta, NY. It speaks for itself. Churches Should Discourage Hunting BY DAVID IRVING Local Commentary The spirit of hunting permeates the Catskill mountain region so deeply that even some pastors and Christian organizations claim that hunting is a good Christian activity. That may come as a shock for many people. How does killing animals coincide with compassion, the central ingredient in Christianity? The great Christian theologian and Nobel laureate Albert Schweitzer wrote that “Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to humankind.” The words are powerful and persuasive. Yet, some people are so filled with the thirst to hunt, they insist it is Christian. Moreover, the phenomenon turns out to be not just local but national in scope. One pastor in Minnesota even claims it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus would shoot a deer. The theological basis for these claims is practically nonexistent. The best argument advocates make is that because animals were sacrificed in Old Testament times it is OK to hunt them today. They ignore that Isaiah called sacrifice an abomination and that Jesus said: “I desire mercy, not sacrifice.” Our pastors seem unable to muster any opposition to the Christian hunting hypothesis, leaving their congregations and their children without guidance about the rights and wrongs of hunting. It is not a difficult problem. Can anyone really picture Jesus summoning the little children unto him to teach them how to kill animals? Killing animals is addictive and the cruelty involved cannot be denied. It is cruel to shoot an animal that flees wounded into the underbrush and there in great pain dies alone of starvation and thirst. There, it may also be attacked and devoured alive by other predators because it cannot defend itself. Nor do hunters have a clue whether they have wounded a targeted animal if it dashes into the woods in a flash, nor do they know or apparently care whether the animal may be a female who is pregnant or who has babies waiting who will starve and thirst to death or be set upon by predators if she does not return to protect them. Words scarcely exist to describe the abhorrent practice of putting down steel-jawed leg hold-traps, which are so barbaric that trapped animals break off their teeth and gnaw off their limbs Churches should discourage hunting in an attempt to escape them. The same applies to drowning traps and canned hunts, which are also impossible to escape. Is the environment just described a place where compassion has a home? It is long past time for our pastors and churches who have not done so — and few have — to fulfill their responsibilities to their communities and their congregations by taking a stand on hunting. Are they for it? At least some pro-hunting churches have the temerity to say where they stand. Are they against it? Then let them stop concealing it and speak out loud and clear. Are they in the middle somewhere? Let them define where it is so their congregations know who they are.. Only when the pastors take a stand can their congregations see whether they are being offered the spiritual guidance they require for living the best Christian life possible. To be silent is to acquiesce to the harm that can arise from different aspects of hunting. This includes teaching children that it is OK to kill animals when it is well grounded in the psychiatric literature that killing animals can be a prelude to sadistic and criminal behavior. Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert DeSalvo, and Ted Bundy all got their start this way. Charles Manson said the only thing he ever killed was a chicken when he was a child. The rising consciousness of people was recently on display as 1.2 million people signed the petition Justice for Cecil (the lion) in a world-wide protest against the same kind of cruelty in hunting described here. This is the trend as people become more aware of their responsibilities to animals for the betterment of the world. The pastors and the churches need to give up their resistance to the new consciousness and embrace it for here they will find the answer to their declining memberships and dwindling relevance to their communities. Unfortunately, too often they seem afraid to alienate their members who are hunters and so they remain speechless. The members of the congregations also have their role to play. They can fulfill that best by insisting that their pastors stand up and state where they stand. David Irving, of Sidney, is the President of the Lamb of God Institute Against Cruelty to Animals and the author of “The Protein Myth”; “Is It Christian to Hunt”; “Trappersville USA”; and other books.

I hate hunting out of pop up ground blinds. I can't see the sky. I can't see what is in the trees. When I am hunting, I want to watch everything.

Bear claw marks I have seen leave parallel lines.

I agree with a lot of what you all wrote. That said: I am an advocate of keeping deer numbers low enough to allow forest regeneration. I guess that makes me a tree hugger. A hunter and a tree hugger. This plan will to include more voices in the decision making thus diluting what hunters have to say. Hunters are essential to the management goals. There is no other way to control deer numbers. DEC must increase recruitment of hunters so those of us disappearing due to attrition can be replaced. So, what do deer hunters want? I've been trying to figure this out for some time.

This release showed up today. A noteworthy quote: "DEC biologists will base final objectives for deer population change on whether the public recommendation is compatible with existing levels of deer impacts on forests." DEC Launches Pilot Project to Improve Collection of Public Input About Deer Populations New Process Allows for Increased Public Input There will be an increased opportunity for public input in deer management decision-making under a pilot project launched today by the state Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC). This new project will incorporate modern technology and gather input directly from a broader cross-section of New Yorkers. "The old method of collecting public input on desired deer population levels was ground-breaking at the time and has served DEC well for a quarter century," said Acting Commissioner Marc Gerstman. "However, we know we can make the program better by obtaining input from a broader range of citizens, by taking better advantage of current electronic communication methods and by making the process easier for those participating." DEC is initiating this pilot effort in central New York and has selected a 1,325-square-mile group of three WMUs (7H, 8J and 8S) which encompass Seneca County and portions of Ontario, Wayne, Yates, Schuyler, Tompkins and Cayuga counties. The Human Dimensions Research Unit (HDRU) and the Cooperative Extension in the Department of Natural Resources at Cornell University are assisting DEC with the research and educational outreach aspects of the pilot. In addition, Cornell Cooperative Extension of Seneca, Cayuga, and Tompkins counties will play a central role in implementation of the pilot process. The new process is intended to replace the existing Citizen Task Force (CTF) model for seeking public recommendations on desired deer population levels within individual Wildlife Management Units (WMUs), in place since 1990. In keeping with DEC's Management Plan for White-tailed Deer in New York State: 2012-2016, DEC began grouping the existing 92 WMUs into fewer, larger WMU aggregates that will allow for better use of existing and new data and improved deer population monitoring. Public recommendations for deer population change will also be identified for WMU aggregates rather than individual WMUs. DEC is evaluating the best approach to engage the public at this larger scale. Planning for the revised public input process started in 2013. Activities included interviews with DEC and Cooperative Extension staff, as well as citizens who were involved in the original CTFs to identify the strengths and shortcomings of the old method. In addition, last spring DEC and HDRU conducted a broad-based survey of residents in the central New York pilot WMU aggregate to collect information on public values for deer and their experiences and concerns with deer impacts (e.g., deer-vehicle collisions, landscape damage, agricultural damage) in that area. The pilot project will include: embarking on a broad-scale education effort this fall to develop public understanding of the process, share results of the survey and convey information to the public regarding deer impacts, management issues and challenges in general; using the information gained through the broad-scale education effort combined with the public survey results, a small group of citizens will convene for the purpose of identifying and prioritizing deer impacts in the pilot WMU aggregate; and using the recommendations of the citizen group, together with the results of the public survey, to define the public recommendation for deer population change in the pilot WMU aggregate. Citizens participating in the process will no longer be asked to gather input themselves from other stakeholders, which was one of the limitations under the previous CTF approach. Solicitation of input, now via broad public survey, will be more far-reaching and representative than collecting opinions on a limited one-on-one basis. The public recommendation for deer population change will be considered for data describing the ecological impacts of deer within the WMU aggregate. DEC biologists will base final objectives for deer population change on whether the public recommendation is compatible with existing levels of deer impacts on forests. Results of the process, as well as the decisions pursuant to it, will be shared with the public broadly, serving as an audit on the pilot system, and providing feedback for improving the process before expanding it to other WMU aggregates in the future. Once refined, DEC intends to implement the new process on a routine cycle in each aggregate in the state to respond to changing conditions and attitudes about deer impacts over time. The original CTF process involved the selection of a relatively small group of citizens, usually eight to 12 individuals, each representing a particular stake in the deer population level in a WMU. Members included farmers, hunters, motorists, foresters, landowners and others having an interest in the size of a unit's deer herd. Task Force members were asked to seek opinions about desired deer numbers from other citizens in their stakeholder group, form a collective stakeholder position and then report that position back to the CTF. The group, as a whole then debated the merits of the various positions and settled on one collective recommendation to the DEC on which direction the local deer population should go and by how much. The recommendation was expressed as percent change desired in the deer population, including no change. DEC then used the CTF recommendation to guide deer management actions in that particular WMU. For information regarding other DEC deer programs, visit the Department's Deer Management web page.

I found a dead deer on my property recently. It may have been there a month or more. Most of the body skin was intact and the bones are all in place - no bones removed, dragged or chewed. I don't think any large scavenger was into it. It is about a 1/4 mile from the road. I thought maybe it was hit by a car and made it that far but can't see any damaged bones. It appears to be a small doe, probably a yearling. I can't rule out a car strike since I can't see its ribs - which could be damaged. It's long leg bones are all intact. Odd. On yesterday's evening walk we also saw 22 turkeys in a hay field that is just about right for a second cutting. 4 were adult hens. 18 were young birds.

Your best chance is to find out from the previous landowner. The tree doesn't look very old so it is probably something common that came from a nursery. Considering how red they are at this point,and that some are dropping, they may be an early variety. If they are sweet now, they are definitely an early apple. When they ripen will narrow the number of possible varieties. Do some google searches for named apples. Use the timing of ripening. And, do a google image search. Beware, there are hundreds of named apple varieties. I've got about 2 dozen varieties. I've collected some from old farmsteads around the region and have no idea what they are. Back some years ago I was trading grafting stock with people. Some of those are a mystery too.

Good start Otto. Here is a golden eagle photo from about a half mile distance taken in my yard. It's similar to yours but I cropped it a bit.

G-man - Thanks for posting that. On a personal level, I try hard to keep my hunting goals congruent with my environmental goals. For those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a clip. The first sentence here does not apply to coyotes. They have evolved to withstand wolf predation. It does apply to wolves which is why it was so easy to eliminate them from the lower 48 - along with grizzlies. “Typically, human hunters remove one in 5 large carnivores from the planet each year, and that’s kind of spooky because most large carnivores do not have the reproductive ability to withstand that sort of mortality,” Darimont said. “They simply did not evolve as prey.” In short, these land-based meat eaters can’t make babies that grow into adults fast enough to sustain their population levels. And that’s why humans’ focus on killing adults is so dangerous, Darimont said. Think of it from a business perspective, the researchers said. An adult female, for example, is like your capital; the young that she produces are the interest generated by that capital. If you kill an adult animal today, it will take years for another to grow up and take her place. But if you kill a young animal, it will (theoretically) take only until the next breeding season to produce another. In other words, it’s better to use the up interest rather than to draw down the capital, because the capital is much more difficult to build back. Once it’s gone, it’s gone -- and so is the interest. But highly successful hunters, such as fishing birds, naturally draw on the interest, rather than the capital -- they actually tend to pick off the young and small of a species, rather than the adults. That’s in part because the young are often easier to catch and eat -- and many animals, such as birds, are limited in what they can gulp down by the size of their mouths (known as gape limitation)."

Welcome.

I had some small scale manufacturing going on here at one time and got into a detailed conversation with my insurance company. My homeowners/farmowners insurance company must defend me if I am sued for something on my land. So, if someone is hunting here and falls out of his tree stand, he can try to sue me but it will be frivolous and dismissed. I don't know if normal homeowners insurance would be the same. Having no insurance at all would mean the landowner has to defend himself. However, with no insurance policy to fill their bank accounts, what assets are they going after?

For the landowner, taking cash creates a liability issue. I would not take cash from anyone who hunts here. I can't let many people deer hunt with firearms since it is a Christmas tree farm and safety is paramount but I let people bow hunt and also small game. One guy gave my wife a jake turkey he shot. She was thrilled.

Just came across this on a lead free coyote hunt - http://ar15hunter.com/california-coyote-hunt-lead-free-223-ammo/