Curmudgeon

An argument for a whale "hunt" - http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2967809/whatever_our_emotions_tell_us_not_all_whaling_is_the_same.html

I'm not surprised. I never got the coyote-hating vibe from you.

APHIS uses silencers and takes head shots at night in the burbs. Kill them nicely and out of sight!

I don't know but fishers do. I have a friend who witnessed a kill while he was bow hunting. He has a poor quality video. The fisher killed the raccoon and left. My friend put a camera on it. The fisher returned at night and dragged it off.

Not to change the subject but can you recommend a good scabbard for a tractor?

Hickory trees are loaded. The branches are bending.

Here we go again........................We've been around that block a number of times.

To paraphrase Mrs. Curmudgeon, "Wooly, STOP MAKING SENSE!"

Rob - You are working way too hard. I don't have the time to read all your links. I don't have the time to put everything in context for Papist. The older granddaughter wants to go catch frogs. I'll check back in later. BTW - VJP is in ME so the reference is germane. Also, should we not have had the bear referendum discussion last fall because it was in ME?

Rob - I will remain a skeptic. I will continue to question such things. You are anonymous. You are on the internet. Reason and science are often in short supply around here. VJP - Ecological harm? Where did that come from? The ecological harm came from not having any large carnivores. There was lot's to eat and nothing except humans eating it, unless it starved and the scavengers got it. Humans have failed miserably at eating enough of the lower food chain mammal species in suburbia and areas that were marginal farmland, now reverting to forest. Coyotes do not exceed the carrying capacity of an area. They establish clear territories within which only one pair breed. All others are driven out. Killing one or both of that dominant pair causes a disruption of the social order. This often results in the creation of multiple smaller territories. Killing them is self defeating. But as my wife likes to say "Curmudgeon, stop making sense!" I will admit that they can have a significant impact on deer in the forest preserve and areas of heavy lake-effect snow. In many earlier posts I have qualified my statements in that way. The suitability of those areas for deer is a whole different conversation. In ME you guys can hunt them all year except during deer season. At a conference earlier this month in Rangeley, one of your state wildlife officials I was talking to called it "a hopeless war on coyotes". Nothing is being gained from a 24/7 - 9 month hunting season that extends through whelping season. I have not spoken to a professional wildlife manager with a modern education who believes anything is gained from the general persecution of predators. That statement does not deny individual problems with endangered species or encounters with people.

This is a tragedy born of ignorance. While the death of 3 individual eagles is tragic indeed, the ignorance is much more of a concern because it is so widespread. Thanks for posting Greg. It is the first I heard of such a case in NY.

Trying to catch up here. Sorry if I miss anyone. Grow - you make some good points. gis4 - I have no idea what the Sienfeld reference means. I only know it was a TV show. Maybe you were talking to me. Enjoy yourself if it went over my head. VJP and others - a "problem" is what I would like to define. I see no problem. 4 Seasons - Facts and reality matter my friend. Rob - They don't create "chaos". We created a vacuum they are filling. 4 Seasons keeps that vacuum running while Fort Drum fills in the hole. As far as fearing them while camping. I have had packs near me while camping. I have always found their noise unnerving. However, I have learned that it is not to be feared any more than any other wild animal. They were very noisy last night and it caused me great concern. Not because of the sheep on pasture. The yotes have walked through while the sheep are out there. The concern was that they would wake 2 little girls who live in a city and disturb their sleep. Rob - just stop being afraid. Papist - If my Navaho cultural reference bothered you, make sure you never attend one of my raven presentations with its host of religious beliefs, myths and superstitions. When I remember my notes, I cover cultures ranging from the Koriak to the Norse to south Asian. As far as you not forgetting that thread where I said using a biblical rationale in a public school with a mixed audience was a terrible approach, I stand by my statement. As far as you not forgetting, if I had been slapped down and publicly spanked by a moderator like you were in that thread, I wouldn't forget either. For those who missed it - http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/27859-explaining-hunting-to-non-hunters/page-4

Coyote haters are the worst kind of wildlife managers. Their decisions are based on ignorance. Their actions are based on emotion. I'm not talking about genuine problem coyotes. I'm talking about coyotes doing their thing in the wild. You want to discuss threats to people. Let's do real risk assessment and talk about problem domestic dogs. How many of them have killed people, including 2 year olds? What is more of a threat coyotes or fido? Kill all the dogs!!!!!!!!!!! While we are at it, why don't we kill all the bees too. They kill a lot of people. The Navaho refer to the coyote as "God's dog". I happen to agree with them. Try watching them, you might find you don't want to shoot them anymore. I watched a pack stalk a relaxed herd of pronghorn once - females and young. It was fascinating. There was a long stalk. As soon as the first pronghorn saw a coyote, the pack totally relaxed and trotted off. I've watched them pounce on mice like a fox. Slip through the woods like a ghost. Let go of your hate for a bit. Let go of your fear. Develop a sense of wonder. It can be freeing.

Rob - That is so 19th century. So simple. I've read a number of your posts. This is extreme - even for you. They aren't hell dogs, they are God's dogs. Have you ever taken the time to watch them, or do you just shoot first and not ask questions later? The deer are eating grouse and turkey eggs. The squirrels are famous nest predators. Should we annihilate them too to save those birds? The coyotes are killing mesopredators, esp. foxes, which eat more rabbits, game birds and squirrels than the coyotes do. You get a net increase in ground nesting birds from more coyotes. This still ignore the obvious. It is impossible in the real world to reduce coyote population. So why do this? You have a bunch of angry guys killing coyotes with no net gain. This is just emotional release. Work a heavy bag. It is healthier. The photo is from Columbia County. I don't have the 2014 numbers at my fingertips but in 2013, 50% of the harvested deer were antlerless. Anyone who thinks they can get more deer by killing coyotes when DEC is working so hard to reduce numbers is not making any sense. It's a fools errand.

I call this meeting of the He-man Coyote Haters Club to order! Read the science. Shooting them changes nothing. They respond by reproducing faster. To answer the original question - You have a coyote problem when they are killing pets and livestock. You guys advocating a year-round season just object to the competition. It's okay for your buddies to kill the game but not a canid.

Send those yotes to me. There are way too many rabbits and woodchucks. Protecting my nuts has become a serious concern. I have some grafted hickories loaded with nuts. As soon as September rolls around there will be more squirrels than I can possibly deal with. Then there are the deer........................ Cheap shot. All hunters have the right to speak the local dialect, especially if you want to connect with everyone. I too am bilingual.

Temporary solution at best.

My wife's ancestors on the plain of Ukraine were overrun, raped, pillaged, over and over by huns, vandals, Russians, Nazis and hordes of others. What was going on with those generations?

shawnhu - You seem to be having a great time but it isn't even sporting.

What time of year are these things happening? I'm wondering if it has something to do with pups. I know someone who had a similar encounter then found he was near a den.

And when you do succeed, they make a mess.

A "good deer" is one that presents itself for a good clean shot.

Yeah, I know about the neighbor thing. I'm getting hammered by too many deer and using up the DMAP tags. One neighbor hasn't spoken to me in years because "I'm killing the brood stock".

I had a young one almost walk over me in the Dacks a few years back while I was deer hunting. At about twenty feet I figured it was getting too close so I whistled, it looked at me puzzled, turned 90 degrees and trotted off. Just an oblivious young coyote. I am hearing that urban/suburban yotes are getting pretty brazen. There is an article in the NY Outdoors News about one taking a little dust mop dog out of a suburban yard. They do a public service in providing feral cat control.

Bill - Very interesting. Urban, suburban or rural area?