Curmudgeon

It's simple. Because they don't understand. They think everyone is motivated by what motivates them.

You shoot them in the head?

Sorry, its a sibs - both the deer and car. It was just to show I know how big a 140 is. Anyway, didn't you see in one of the political threads where I was called an "aging hippy, draft dodger"? That's me, grey beard and all. I think G-man and I are very similar. You question both of us yet I find no difficulty with his thinking. I delegate a lot of the killing. The horns are important to some of guys, especially the younger ones. They are competitive. I think of myself as having found an ecological niche. Deer are affecting the ecology of my place in the world. So, I eat them. Simple. BTW - I hope you read the warning in my signature line. Disbelief is a good defense for cognitive dissonance.

Yes - 145 raw score. Got dinged for the drop tines. Adirondack wilderness deer.

Heck, if any level of diminished capacity is grounds, we are all in trouble.

Welcome and good luck.

Bowguy - If you expect us to believe that, have him write it up and send it to a peered reviewed journal. This is some older raw data from DEC - no analysis, just numbers. Note the waterfowl numbers. I think if you click on it, it will get bigger. The geese were feeding on a skeet field picking up pellets as grit.

How many guys have skinned deer to find bird shot in them?

VJP - True, it could have been the carcass of another species. However, woodchuck is unlikely given the seasonality of golden eagle presence. Porky is unlikely for other reasons - though not impossible. Somewhere in my computer is a photo of a golden with quills in it. That case was written up in a scientific paper. Goldens don't eat fish as a rule but balds do. Fish is an unlikely source in the case of the bird in the photo. As you probably know, you can no longer buy lead split shot in NY because of the poisoning of loons and other species that acquire grit on the bottom of water bodies. The time it takes to die depends on the dose, which is also dependent on volume and surface area of the lead. Since almost every avian scavenger in the east is chronically exposed to lead, the current levels in its body could have an effect. Many lead fragments - such as are found in a gut pile from a deer killed with a high powered rifle - are more effective at poisoning than a single piece of equal mass. A good dose could impair a bird within in a day. They often die of secondary causes - primarily starvation - since they cannot function. Often when they are found alive, they are badly compromised neurologically and cannot be released. Two eastern goldens that were lead poisoned, rehabilitated, and released last year were tracked by telemetry. Neither survived long, even though they seemed well when released. You are probably right that preventing all bird deaths from lead would require a ban. It is also true that preventing all eagle deaths from electrocution might require a ban on power poles. Stopping car collisions might require a ban on cars. I'm just being flip now but there is a lot that can be done to reduce car deaths - moving roadkills away from highways quickly gets the birds off the shoulder. To minimize electrocutions power poles are being redesigned and retrofitted. To reduce eagle deaths hunters can choose to hunt with bullets that were designed to be better bullets - copper bullets. Their lack of toxicity to birds and people was an unintended benefit. This is so unlike the change that took place for waterfowl hunting. Use lead at the range. Use the copper in the field. Simple and voluntary.

Some afterthoughts on Belo not believing I would pass on a big deer: Has anyone else ever let a good deer walk by because he/she just didn't feel like shooting a deer at that particular moment? Has anyone else found themselves sad after killing a beautiful animal? I have. I know this statement puts me in an exposed position. The macho guys can call me names. It doesn't matter. I'll never be the alpha male again. I have nothing left to prove. Those who know me well, know who I am, what I have done, where I have been and what matters. I have at times been saddened by the death. It doesn't stop me from hunting. I think the connection to the animal makes me more human. I said in a post some time ago that I do not take photos of myself with dead deer. I don't criticize those who do. Personally, these things are not a point of pride with me. There are lots of deer skulls and racks in the barn, none in the house. The point of hunting is not the killing.

When you reach my age and diminished condition, you can reconsider that response. Sorry to disappoint but I'm not your average curmudgeon.

Grow - A bunch of family and close friends are hunting this property. I don't control what they shoot. I make sure everyone has a doe tag of some sort for opening weekend so we will have a pile of carcasses to cut up Monday. Personally, at this point I only kill deer to control numbers and fill the freezer. Big buck, small buck, doe, whatever. If I had a 140" or better walk by, I would probably take a pass. Any buck that can live that long around here deserves another chance. Last opening weekend Sunday -

It wasn't a complaint, just a response to gis jumping on me after not reading the details of my post. We are willing to play by the same rules as everyone else. We let the little ones pass early in the season for a few years but it seemed we were just saving them for the neighbors who picked them off during the season with the big crew. I know several landowner groups nearby that have agreements to not shoot small bucks. It works for them. I would do the same if the whole hill would agree to it. We shoot as many bucks as does. The drivers only shoot bucks. I'll leave it to Virgil to change some minds. He has less of a buffer than me.

Your degree and data don't matter. Reread the post, I said in this neighborhood - and acknowledged that things vary within a town, even this town. Access for hunters is essential for population control. A 700 acre parcel in sight of me where no does are killed is a serious impediment to controlling numbers. Those guys hunt using large drives of over 20 people on their property, and others, killing every buck they can. We kill about as many legal bucks as does but rarely anything over a 1 1/2 year old. The point is, these things are very variable from place to place. The opinion I expressed came from a DEC biologist who knows this place. They give me DMAP tags every year without question. They know what is going on here. Deer per square mile? Hmmmm. I can go for a walk late in early spring and easily count 35-40 deer every evening. None more than 1/2 mile away. How many do I miss?

Back during slug days, I took a follow up shot after putting a slug through a deer's lungs. The deer didn't flinch, just started running and I reacted. I was young and hungry. The follow up shot was a big mistake. It was a gut shot. If I had missed with the first one, I would have had a gut shot deer on my hands. The way it was, I had a terrible mess to deal with where the deer dropped 50 yards away. Never again.

Having a reference is great. I don't know how in some of the trail cam discussions people judge the size of animals without anything to go by, especially since distance really affects how big or small things appear in some cameras. I watched a grizzly in Yellowstone - a robust looking thing, very muscular - through a spotting scope some years ago. A biologist who was monitoring her and her cubs asked me what I thought she weighed. I guessed 400#. He said her real weight was 250#.

It is impossible to shoot too many doe in this neighborhood. There is too much land that cannot be hunted. There is a very large landowner whose family only shoot bucks. These things vary over relatively short distances even within a town but we've been killing ~4 does on 80 acres each year since the late 90s and see no reduction in deer numbers. A DEC biologist told me we could shoot every doe we see on my property during the season and not impact the population (given the situation). There are always yearlings that would fill in the hole. A couple of years ago - mid-season - I was walking back to the house for lunch after not seeing a deer all morning. There were 18 grazing in the open across the road - a very safe spot.

No, it could have a coyote carcass. It didn't get the lead from lead paint. Both eagles switch to scavenging as a primary feeding activity in the cold months. Commercially ground vension showing lead (while spots) after being put through a CT scanner. Anyone want to submit some samples for X-raying? I think I can get it done for free. PM me. I would be especially interested in commercially processed meat. Those who cut their own are usually much better about trimming the bad stuff out. Cutting out the bloody stuff doesn't preclude lead fragments. They can travel up to 14" from the entry hole.

I'm with AT - I find the Barnes devastating, and absolutely lead-free - TSX or TTSX. There will be no eagles dead from eating the gut pile - unlike like this golden found just outside Cobleskill when the snow melted in the spring. I like Federal Trophy Copper also. My Dad uses Hornady GMX loads. I met a new foodie last week. About 35, female, relatively new hunter. She hunts with a .270 also, and lead-free ammo. Her boyfriend offered to drag her first deer but she refused. She had to do it herself. I have noticed that younger hunters - and especially foodies- are very aware of lead toxicity issues. This death was confirmed as lead poisoning.

The only black hunter I know is a falconer. Talk about stereotypes!

Agree the bear is not at fault. However, a bear, fisher, coyote, raccoon, fox or anything else coming to close to human habitation, and helping itself to pets and livestock, is going to be removed from the gene pool.

I'm wondering if this is an urban vs. rural thing. I note you are from LI. I think most of that island is urban but correct me if I am wrong. My wife teaches in the local K-12 school. She hears hunting stories from her students all the time. It's part of the culture here. Average grade class size is about 30.

You have to wonder who wrote that stuff. Copied and pasted sans emojis. Don't know where they came from. STUDENT A’s QUESTIONS (Do not show to Student 1) What springs to mind when you hear the word ‘hunting’? 2) Are you for or against hunting? 3) Would you like to go hunting? 4) What kind of hunting is there in your country? 5) What do you think of trophy hunting? 6) Do you think it’s OK for people to hunt elephants and whales? 7) What do you think of people hunting animals for fur? Do you think hunting is a sport? 9) Do you think hunting around the world should only be allowed for food? 10) What are your experiences of job hunting? STUDENT B’s QUESTIONS (Do not show to Student A) 1) What are the differences between hunting and fishing? 2) Why do you think people get a thrill from hunting and killing animals? 3) What damage is big game hunting doing in Africa? 4) Do you think it’s OK to hunt pests? 5) What hunting methods do you know of that are very cruel? 6) What do you think of the term ‘blood sports’ to describe hunting? 7) How has hunting changed over the ages? Do you think all hunting will be illegal in the future? 9) Would you like to go on a hunting expedition? 10) Would you go hunting if you lived in the jungle?

Unfortunately, these things are much too common. Ds, Rs, it doesn't matter. They all do it. These amendments are called "poison pills" for a reason.

Tragic story. http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Bear-eats-local-dog-315532721.html